Anabolic Threshold

[fitnesskatz]

fitnesskatz

very good discussion

 

[Stupes]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it has been said that if the steroid is still "cleaved" it does not show up in the blood work?

That's irrelevant.

When people graph out half lives and front load etc. - they look at the amount of hormone that is still attached to the ester and then call that "hormone in the blood stream". They should be looking at the amount that has been released into the blood - they look at the wrong side of the equation. Everyone does it on the boards - it's crazy....

 

[Stupes]

View attachment 65312

So I went back and created a spreadsheet to calculate the level of uptake daily so you can see how much of a compound is in the blood based on injection timing. This way we can also see the trough which was not shown in those other charts.

I used Deca as the example, since that's what was mentioned in the video. 600mg's in different dosing schemes based on 15 day half life.

Note the huge difference in the peaks when injecting once per week. And with the trough shown, you can clearly see there's no real difference in the mean blood level. But it's the large peaks the video was referring to that has more anabolic effect than steady levels.

Those other charts were skewing the value on shot days because he took the entire shot amount and piled it into a day. That's not how it works.

Again - these graphs merely show the buildup of hormone that is yet to be released into the blood. Who cares about that? It's just floating around waiting to be activated. You should graph the daily release, which would be the difference between the amount injected and the amount remaining in ester.

What is used is what is released - not what is sitting in ester. I can't be the only person to understand this concept.......

 

[Kwon47]

Again - these graphs merely show the buildup of hormone that is yet to be released into the blood. Who cares about that? It's just floating around waiting to be activated. You should graph the daily release, which would be the difference of amount injected and amount remaining in ester.

What is used is what is released - not what is sitting in ester. I can't be the only person to understand this concept.......

That's what I did. I graphed the RELEASE daily. That is a daily chart showing how much is released into the bloodstream. Note the mg numbers to the left and their relative values.

 

[Stupes]

That's what I did. I graphed the RELEASE daily. That is a daily chart showing how much is released into the bloodstream. Note the mg numbers to the left and their relative values.

Sorry! my bad - I assumed you were still looking at it like everyone does. never assume.

Can you easily tweak that to cypionate and prop half lives? Curious how they would look.

Thanks for your work!

 

[MaineGuy]

That's irrelevant.

When people graph out half lives and front load etc. - they look at the amount of hormone that is still attached to the ester and then call that "hormone in the blood stream". They should be looking at the amount that has been released into the blood - they look at the wrong side of the equation. Everyone does it on the boards - it's crazy....

I think what I said is correct. Anyway, the more AAS that you inject at once, the more will be cleaved compared to smaller doses, hence a higher peak, correct?

 

[Kwon47]

The release rate isn't constant in a half life formula. Using Test E as an example and assuming a 5.5 day half life, daily release would look like this with a 500 mg inject:

Day 1: 59.2 mg
Day 2: 52.2 mg
Day 3: 46.0 mg
Day 4: 40.6 mg
Day 5: 35.8 mg
Day 6: 31.5 mg
Day 7: 27.8 mg

Notice you get much more during the first three days than you do the following three:

157.4 mg vs 107.9 mg

I think we've established most people experience less sides with more stable bloods which is what the chart I posted shows; as you increase frequency of injections you reduce the peaks/valleys and get a more stable range.

I don't believe the point of the video was side effects though. It was all about taking advantage of those huge peaks for more anabolic potential.

the charts are all based on hypothetical half lives.

like I keep trying to point out, there may be a relative release rate but it is not consistent. like th point with te, te really acts more like tne and if you use it ed you get better resleuts with lower dosing and less sides. which is I think one of emeric's main points.

again in practice I have found the people who shoot ed or as often as possible do better, less sides more results, look better.

I can think of lots of people that do these random injects or very sporatic and they always seem to be bloated and more acne.

all the theories and charts are great but at some point I think one really needs to tryit all out and compare apples to apples.

 

[Stupes]

I think what I said is correct. Anyway, the more AAS that you inject at once, the more will be cleaved compared to smaller doses, hence a higher peak, correct?

Yeah agreed - the more you inject - the higher peak (of amount released into the blood stream). Kwon's graph shows the release. I think Lucian's point can really be seen with his new graph.

Kwon - can you tweak your graph and use a couple of these Half lives? As was said earlier - those old school rat numbers that are all over the roid boards are garbage.

Drug Active half-life
Acetate 1 day
Propionate 1 day
Phenylpropionate 1-2 days
Hexanoate 3 days
Isocaproate 4-5 days
Enanthate 5-6 days
Cypionate 6-7 days
Decanoate 7-8 days
Undeclenate 8-9 days
Undecanoate Approx 20 days

 

[Kwon47]

I think what I said is correct. Anyway, the more AAS that you inject at once, the more will be cleaved compared to smaller doses, hence a higher peak, correct?

Exactly. Check what I just posted on Test E with a 500mg inject all at once.

 

[Kwon47]

Test E with 5.5 day half life and 500mg dosage per week. I zoomed the charts into 21 days so you can see the days in more detail.

 

[Stupes]

Yeah - with E7D the higher release peaks make a huge difference early in the cycle - probably evens out somewhat after 50 days. But Lucian's point can be seen very well here - IMO.....

Thanks Kwon

 

[Kwon47]

Assuming Prop is a 1 day half-life. Here you have Test Prop with injections split E3D, EOD, and ED.

 

[lucian]

Assuming Prop is a 1 day half-life. Here you have Test Prop with injections split E3D, EOD, and ED.

View attachment 65314

An this last graph is exactly what I was talking about. Te levels of the e3d will NEVER. Be reached on and ed schedule. And which do you think gives better gains? More or less drugs? Assuming the training and diet is spot on! Higher level in the system. If your worried about side effect ten taking drugs may not be the smartest thing. If you want to be as massive as possible. Bigger less frequent doses look to be the way to go!

 

[hilly2008]

Will try this when I change compounds in a few weeks.

Last time I ran sust I ran a ml 6 days a week only

This time ill run 750 every monday n thursday

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[Knight9]

An this last graph is exactly what I was talking about. Te levels of the e3d will NEVER. Be reached on and ed schedule. And which do you think gives better gains? More or less drugs? Assuming the training and diet is spot on! Higher level in the system. If your worried about side effect ten taking drugs may not be the smartest thing. If you want to be as massive as possible. Bigger less frequent doses look to be the way to go!

Hey buddy...

So I am contemplating test E and NPP. If electing to do both at 600-700/wk, would you elect to pin 300mg e3d of EACH? Trying to experiment with the theory here and my body is very well rested from AAS, so will be able to notice and report on it.

 

[Superheavy]

When I used to pin twice a week with long ester test I would get terrible acne and become a walking water ballon. Since switching to EOD pins I hold hardly any water and my skin looks great. Thats all the proof I need.

 

[raw33man]

I'm just thinking, back in Arnold's time, they had no bodybuilding boards, they didn't have coq 10, fish oil and other bunch of shit that we take for "health" purposes, they didn't take BCAAs and aminos.... and talk about either inject once a week or 100 times a day... or eat 3 big meals vs 10 small meals

and YET those guys were still better looking than all of us in here, minus they had no insulin or GH, that's why they were lighter !! And look, most of them live longer than today's bodybuilders, they didn't take PCTs and other stuff

hmmm just thinking, I'm mind fucked

 

[sammy555]

I'm just thinking, back in Arnold's time, they had no bodybuilding boards, they didn't have coq 10, fish oil and other bunch of shit that we take for "health" purposes, they didn't take BCAAs and aminos.... and talk about either inject once a week or 100 times a day... or eat 3 big meals vs 10 small meals

and YET those guys were still better looking than all of us in here, minus they had no insulin or GH, that's why they were lighter !! And look, most of them live longer than today's bodybuilders, they didn't take PCTs and other stuff

hmmm just thinking, I'm mind fucked

Some very good points. We do seem to overcomplicate a lot of things these days. A ton of good food and as much gear as your Comftable with and training fucking hard is all you really need

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[raw33man]

Some very good points. We do seem to overcomplicate a lot of things these days. A ton of good food and as much gear as your Comftable with and training fucking hard is all you really need

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yea I bet you 95% of these broscientists don't even go all out, 100% out about diet and training....

 

[MaineGuy]

When I used to pin twice a week with long ester test I would get terrible acne and become a walking water ballon. Since switching to EOD pins I hold hardly any water and my skin looks great. Thats all the proof I need.

Sounds like you didn't control your Estrogen levels, also maybe your diet was not spot on.