Androgel for HRT, does it raise DHT more than injection?

[slowpain]

I know alot of you guys are on androgel here. im on 10g a day and am 29 years old. My testosterone levels where almost non existant and my total test results came back at 160 and reference is 250-1000. So my doc put me on HRT at my request. Im not going to get into it but i have been juicing on and off sense 19. My last cycle was a cruise blast method that lasted almost 3 years of never realy coming off. Yes I got huge and yes i competed, i am a vet. Now im just looking for more the healthy lifestyle and not so much huge size. i have lost about 40 lbs of muscle sense i came off my last cycle, and i do mean muscle and water cause my BF is still the same %.

My test levels where checked about a year after i came off and i never recoverd. Even after Clomid nolva adex tribulus zinc and other PCT products were used. I also used HCG quite a bit while on.

My real question is does the androgel i am taking cause a higher rise in estrodial and DHT compared to if i were to inject say 100-200mg test cyp a week?

The reason i ask is because the skin is where the 5 alpha reductase to convert to DHT is found and i know there is a higher conversion of testosterone to estrodiol in the adipose tissue as well.

Now im not realy seeing any effects that would lead me to believe there is higher conversion from transdermals as compared to injections but what about the long term effects. Say after 20 or 30 years?

 

[prime]

how are you levels on Androgel? I took 10g a day and my levels dropped.

 

[slowpain]

not exactly sure to tell ya the truth, my doctor started me out at 5g a day and my natural levels were so low that i couldnt even handle puting a full packet on. And it seemed to me that you get a pretty good spike when you first apply it, at least it seems that way to me. I would almost say that you get more of a fluctuation out of transdermal than you do injections but that the opposite they tell you when you look at the trials that were conducted.

I worked my way up to a full packet a day and had blood drawn again and it was still low so he upped it to 10g a day. Well it seems like when i take more than 5g a day it almost feels like too much which is crazy cause i used to run over 1200mg of test cyp a week and never felt like that. So now after being on for about 3 months am still only taking 5g a day and he said my last test a week ago came back as in range but at the low end.

Im pretty sure if i take a full 10g a day that will put me where i need to be but seriously the stuff gives me anxiety or something i never felt in all my years of shooting test. It was strange for the first month my throat always felt realy tight like it hurt, and the more androgel i put on the tighter it felt kinda like when you get a lump in your throat when your nervous. I thought it might have been messing with my thyroid or lymphatic system seeing as how it is transdermal but now it dosnt realy bother me anymore.

I can tell you for sure i am 1000% happier than i was before i started. I now have more endurance and am gaining some weight back but not much. I realy lost alot of strength when my test was so low. i was like a 80 year old man in the gym. I never want to go back to that...

 

[prime]

I hope it works for you. My levels were 190 when I was on 10g of Androgel a day. I think it doesn't absorb well for most people. The theory is that the skin is like a reservoir for the test and it can hold about 3 or 4 days worth(that's what the company says). But I've also read that applying it 2x a day is better for topicals so I don't know. It's really pricey too.

 

[slowpain]

Yea i would have to say everybody is different and have different permiabilitys depending on the thickness of your skin and also BF% probably makes a big differance. For me personaly i think it moves through my skin faster than most and causes a sharp rise and fall compared to others. I apply mine 3x a day which is a pain in the ass but seems to keep my mood swings down. I need to just switch to injections if my doctor will do it.

 

[kid1dakota]

I was on cyp injects for HRT from my endo.Well long story short I had to switch endos where I only see the PA and she is against injects.She says they peak too much etc.. I try and explain yes they do ,thats why weekly injects.She wont listen and has me on Testim gel.I hate it!! feel like shit,the stuff is messy etc..

my experience ^^^^^^^^ not sure about the dht question.

 

[slowpain]

yea i bet she is against it, cause she probably dosnt make as much money from the injections. I know my doctor gets some kind of kickback from me buying androgel cause he gave me a card with a number on it that takes an extra $10 off after insurance so it only costs me $10 for 150g at a time. I bet if i ever ask him to switch over he isnt going to be so motivated. You gota love doctors and the medical field. Half of them have no business being in it..

 

[kid1dakota]

yea i bet she is against it, cause she probably dosnt make as much money from the injections. I know my doctor gets some kind of kickback from me buying androgel cause he gave me a card with a number on it that takes an extra $10 off after insurance so it only costs me $10 for 150g at a time. I bet if i ever ask him to switch over he isnt going to be so motivated. You gota love doctors and the medical field. Half of them have no business being in it..

You may be right .Do you know how much Testim is at Walgreens? $300 per month for one tube per day! I am on two tubes per day.I only pay $20 co-pay but on the receipt it says "your insurance saved you $560" thats rediculous! I know for a fact inject at walgreens is a fraction of that.So maybe some agenda to have people on gel.

 

[slowpain]

lol yep and my androgel that my doc was so happy to put me on is over $600 a month at the dose im taking. They just wana make their pockets fatter. The only reason i dont care right now is it only costs me $20 a month also, but if i want to switch to injections and he gives me trouble you can bet hes gona see a different side of me he wont like very much..

 

[kid1dakota]

lol yep and my androgel that my doc was so happy to put me on is over $600 a month at the dose im taking. They just wana make their pockets fatter. The only reason i dont care right now is it only costs me $20 a month also, but if i want to switch to injections and he gives me trouble you can bet hes gona see a different side of me he wont like very much..

Me too as I'm just going along and playing their game.I have only had one set of labs drawn being on one tube per day.Now I am on two tubes and I am next to positive it wont raise levels enough anyway.So I don't think there will be any argument as to next steps.Many say just go underground DIY etc..But I want the labwork that comes along with legal HRT.

 

[kaleb]

i believe it does increase dht conversion in some people. i started losing hair rapidly, and my forehead was very greasy on androgel. as soon as i went to 100 mg week on injections i was fine. i did not have any lab work to confirm this. good luck. kaleb:

 

[prime]

You may be right .Do you know how much Testim is at Walgreens? $300 per month for one tube per day! I am on two tubes per day.I only pay $20 co-pay but on the receipt it says "your insurance saved you $560" thats rediculous! I know for a fact inject at walgreens is a fraction of that.So maybe some agenda to have people on gel.

Walgreens charges $120 for a 10ml vial of Watson 200mg Test cyp and that is a rip. I found it at a discount pharmacy for $48. No insurance. 10ml at 150mg a week(which is way higher than the gel will take you) lasts THREE months!! Hm..$48 for injectable or $2000(i was on max androgel pumps and was like $700 per month to insurance from walgreens) for the gel for same time period. Somebody's pockets are being lined. Angrogel has a huge sales force and lobby as well and the insurance will approve the Andro and not approve the cyp even though it will save them 98% of the cost. Really disturbing.

 

[slowpain]

i believe it does increase dht conversion in some people. i started losing hair rapidly, and my forehead was very greasy on androgel. as soon as i went to 100 mg week on injections i was fine. i did not have any lab work to confirm this. good luck. kaleb:

Great i knew it, ya know i have way more agression on this transdermal crap than i did on the injections. They have to lie about how much gets converted to DHT. All the hair folicles in the skin cause conversion to DHT, and there are hairs everywhere especialy on a grown mans body.

Walgreens charges $120 for a 10ml vial of Watson 200mg Test cyp and that is a rip. I found it at a discount pharmacy for $48. No insurance. 10ml at 150mg a week(which is way higher than the gel will take you) lasts THREE months!! Hm..$48 for injectable or $2000(i was on max androgel pumps and was like $700 per month to insurance from walgreens) for the gel for same time period. Somebody's pockets are being lined. Angrogel has a huge sales force and lobby as well and the insurance will approve the Andro and not approve the cyp even though it will save them 98% of the cost. Really disturbing.

Yep im realy sick of the pharmeceutical and insurance companies teaming up to screw over the american people. U know the sad thing is it costs about $5 or less for them to manufacture a box of androgel that costs $300. What a profit deal..

 

[kid1dakota]

Walgreens charges $120 for a 10ml vial of Watson 200mg Test cyp and that is a rip. I found it at a discount pharmacy for $48. No insurance. 10ml at 150mg a week(which is way higher than the gel will take you) lasts THREE months!! Hm..$48 for injectable or $2000(i was on max androgel pumps and was like $700 per month to insurance from walgreens) for the gel for same time period. Somebody's pockets are being lined. Angrogel has a huge sales force and lobby as well and the insurance will approve the Andro and not approve the cyp even though it will save them 98% of the cost. Really disturbing.

It is disturbing! I was told Costco had a decent price on Cypionate.Only reason I use Walgreens is my co-pay is the same anywhere and location is conveniant.