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Another BBer down

Just my opinion-Im afraid to even say... :eek:

Id heard (cant produce proof) much about CERTAIN steroids promoting immune function improvment. If I can remember DECA and others did that. On the other hand, some types of steroids did not. Even if it improves quality of remaining life thats a positive, for sure.

Xcel said as soon as steroids are mentioned in the same breath as a person who is deceased-boom! its the cause. What Med Examiner/Autopsy records show doesnt even matter! Alzados records show the specific brain tumor (a condition caused, again, by AIDS) was the cause of death. But does it matter? Hell no as soon as the media gets ahold of the info and speculates, falsly, that steroids contributed or caused the death-that becomes fact in the eyes of the public. So the problem is the perception, usually created by the media hype, not the actual facts. This is what scares me, as laws and discrimination against athletes/BBers are based upon these perceptions.
In the end we may end up in JAIL because of the penalties and laws based partly upon these myths. A bit of a stretch, but still partly true.

I feel, we here (most of us!) try to promote education and sensible use
of these drugs. Which can cause problems, which are safer. Doseages
of different drugs vary and I think we cover that as best we can here.
Rec drugs, health hazzardous lifestyles are something we cannot control. Thats in the mind of the individual. Gear use does not make one a gay porn actor or rec drug user. That person may have a risk-taking type of personality and its he as an individual who makes these choices-they may escilate in risk as the person looks for a new thrill. I hate to even mention rec drugs-but in a similar way smoking pot does not directly cause Heroin addiction and its posible demise of the person-its the personality type of the person using/abusing this stuff as they continue their risk-taking behavior.

You see the deaths of alot of guys - I think alarmingly pro wrestling athletes
may be the most prevelant. Almost always rec drugs (often to help with injuries) are mainly responsible. Also the liftstyle and beating taken in the career hurts the body, not to mention the extra mass the person carries.
Its proven smaller people live longer. There is a difference between fat and muscle, fat causes many more health issues especially typical male pattern
excess ab fat. Steroids may play a role, but if you line all this stuff up-it may be down toward the bottom of the list. How much? Who the hell knows!
Steroids are one thing-the ancillaries are worse! Many times (Benaziza/Muntzer) they are the main cause. Although not the only-we have seen Muntzers cycle and no wonder its called the death stack!

I dont think I took a specific side as much as just explained my personal opinion, for what bullshit thats worth! :eek:
 
Good post

MikeS said:
Just my opinion-Im afraid to even say... :eek:

Id heard (cant produce proof) much about CERTAIN steroids promoting immune function improvment. If I can remember DECA and others did that. On the other hand, some types of steroids did not. Even if it improves quality of remaining life thats a positive, for sure.

Xcel said as soon as steroids are mentioned in the same breath as a person who is deceased-boom! its the cause. What Med Examiner/Autopsy records show doesnt even matter! Alzados records show the specific brain tumor (a condition caused, again, by AIDS) was the cause of death. But does it matter? Hell no as soon as the media gets ahold of the info and speculates, falsly, that steroids contributed or caused the death-that becomes fact in the eyes of the public. So the problem is the perception, usually created by the media hype, not the actual facts. This is what scares me, as laws and discrimination against athletes/BBers are based upon these perceptions.
In the end we may end up in JAIL because of the penalties and laws based partly upon these myths. A bit of a stretch, but still partly true.

I feel, we here (most of us!) try to promote education and sensible use
of these drugs. Which can cause problems, which are safer. Doseages
of different drugs vary and I think we cover that as best we can here.
Rec drugs, health hazzardous lifestyles are something we cannot control. Thats in the mind of the individual. Gear use does not make one a gay porn actor or rec drug user. That person may have a risk-taking type of personality and its he as an individual who makes these choices-they may escilate in risk as the person looks for a new thrill. I hate to even mention rec drugs-but in a similar way smoking pot does not directly cause Heroin addiction and its posible demise of the person-its the personality type of the person using/abusing this stuff as they continue their risk-taking behavior.

You see the deaths of alot of guys - I think alarmingly pro wrestling athletes
may be the most prevelant. Almost always rec drugs (often to help with injuries) are mainly responsible. Also the liftstyle and beating taken in the career hurts the body, not to mention the extra mass the person carries.
Its proven smaller people live longer. There is a difference between fat and muscle, fat causes many more health issues especially typical male pattern
excess ab fat. Steroids may play a role, but if you line all this stuff up-it may be down toward the bottom of the list. How much? Who the hell knows!
Steroids are one thing-the ancillaries are worse! Many times (Benaziza/Muntzer) they are the main cause. Although not the only-we have seen Muntzers cycle and no wonder its called the death stack!

I dont think I took a specific side as much as just explained my personal opinion, for what bullshit thats worth! :eek:

Thank you.Good post.
 
John

i rarely post here and do not want to get in the middle of the argument between phil and lats, both of whom i respect but as a former friend and training partner of john's (mid-late '90s) i have to credit him with one thing: teaching me what the bbing world was really like and how it wasnt worth pursuing as a career. i credit him w/ pushing me to stay in school and get a real job and not rely on the prospect of "turning pro" as a means to make a living.

you guys didnt know john but back then he was a freak... he entered the NJ state show on a whim one week out and placed 3rd. over the years we lost touch and especially given the circumstances now i truly regret it.

one more thing... lats, i dont know where you are getting your info from but much of it is untrue and quite honestly seems to be compiled from posts on getbig and mayhem. and insinuating that he had aids... i dont understand? lats as a said before i respect you and have always enjoyed your posts but i dont get why you are saying certain things here? :confused:
 
Escalade

I apologize if I was out of line. I heard kidney failure and posted it on here. I am sorry for your loss. From the pictures, he was huge and lean, looked really good.
 
PHIL HERNON said:
I apologize if I was out of line. I heard kidney failure and posted it on here. I am sorry for your loss. From the pictures, he was huge and lean, looked really good.

phil you werent out of line at all, i was addressing the AIDS rumors.
 
So ESCALADE, can you shine some light on the whole thing?
No matter what I dont think anyone is demonizing your friend,
its just a matter of topic here. Obviously you have a personal investment-
sorry for your loss. In todays society, having AIDS or whatever
is sad but not shameful, you know? :(

If we could minimize the intra-personal intensity (and Im as guilty sometimes as anyone) these topics, and the resulting debates, are some of what makes
this board so interesting.
 
OK guys, take it easy.

1. I agree with LATS. Steroids are to blame for way too much. I also only believe that you see so many deaths in bodybuilding simply because there's SO MANY bodybuilders out there! Do you know that in the world right now you have 28million COMPETING bodybuilders?? Not recreational, but competing! Add the recreational bodybuilders in there, you have a huge number of people that use/abuse steroids.
Of course, when you have so many people, a lot will die. Not from steroids, just other causes. If they were all natural, just as many would die.
To say that all the deaths are because of the steroid use, is ridiculous.
In medical history only TWO cases of death were directly linked to steroids and those were both 2 cases were Anadrol was sused continuously for 12 months or more.

2. Dr Mooney was at the forefront of steroid use in AIDS. Now, in many countries, it is an approved AIDS treatment. That means, that the treatment with steroids was passed by the Health Departments in those countries. In order to do that, it had to be proven that steroids are an useful treatment of AIDS. That had to be done, because when a drug is approved for a certain use, the goverment picks up part of the bill.

3. From my own personal experience, I NEVER get sick when I am on steroids. Ever. Yes, when I do come off them, I have a high succestability to get sick, so you could say that my immune system is weaker when I come off, but while I am on, I beleive it is the other way.
Sure, this is no medical proof, but for that read point number 2 that I made above.

Regarding the mods - it was unanimous, they wanted to ban you Phil as I told you. And I am the reason why you weren't.
However, I need to make it clear that the mods here have as much power as I do and any decision any of them makes, is final. That has always been.
I have been close friends with my mods in real life for many years.
People like MikeS, LATS and IronMike were even character witnesses in my court case!
So this board is as much theirs as is mine, so I cannot and I will not undermine any of them at any time.

Now to make it clear. Noone wants to bann you now Phil, and certainly LATS was not the one that asked first for you to be banned.

One question begs though, and it is extremely important - from some of the things that you said to LATS in this thread and to MikeS in another thread, were you just assuming things from what I said to you or was another mod telling you things that were discussed in the Admin forum?
I need to know this as it's very important as some very sensitive issues are discussed in that forum (not about you) but legally liable issues, and I certainly CANNOT have anyone speak about issues that are discussed there outside that forum because that is a huge breach of trust.
 
No

Big A said:
OK guys, take it easy.

1. I agree with LATS. Steroids are to blame for way too much. I also only believe that you see so many deaths in bodybuilding simply because there's SO MANY bodybuilders out there! Do you know that in the world right now you have 28million COMPETING bodybuilders?? Not recreational, but competing! Add the recreational bodybuilders in there, you have a huge number of people that use/abuse steroids.
Of course, when you have so many people, a lot will die. Not from steroids, just other causes. If they were all natural, just as many would die.
To say that all the deaths are because of the steroid use, is ridiculous.
In medical history only TWO cases of death were directly linked to steroids and those were both 2 cases were Anadrol was sused continuously for 12 months or more.

2. Dr Mooney was at the forefront of steroid use in AIDS. Now, in many countries, it is an approved AIDS treatment. That means, that the treatment with steroids was passed by the Health Departments in those countries. In order to do that, it had to be proven that steroids are an useful treatment of AIDS. That had to be done, because when a drug is approved for a certain use, the goverment picks up part of the bill.

3. From my own personal experience, I NEVER get sick when I am on steroids. Ever. Yes, when I do come off them, I have a high succestability to get sick, so you could say that my immune system is weaker when I come off, but while I am on, I beleive it is the other way.
Sure, this is no medical proof, but for that read point number 2 that I made above.

Regarding the mods - it was unanimous, they wanted to ban you Phil as I told you. And I am the reason why you weren't.
However, I need to make it clear that the mods here have as much power as I do and any decision any of them makes, is final. That has always been.
I have been close friends with my mods in real life for many years.
People like MikeS, LATS and IronMike were even character witnesses in my court case!
So this board is as much theirs as is mine, so I cannot and I will not undermine any of them at any time.

Now to make it clear. Noone wants to bann you now Phil, and certainly LATS was not the one that asked first for you to be banned.

One question begs though, and it is extremely important - from some of the things that you said to LATS in this thread and to MikeS in another thread, were you just assuming things from what I said to you or was another mod telling you things that were discussed in the Admin forum?
I need to know this as it's very important as some very sensitive issues are discussed in that forum (not about you) but legally liable issues, and I certainly CANNOT have anyone speak about issues that are discussed there outside that forum because that is a huge breach of trust.

No MOD has ever discussed anything with me about what is said between you.
 
PHIL HERNON said:
No MOD has ever discussed anything with me about what is said between you.

OK, thank you :)
 
Big A said:
OK guys, take it easy.

1. I agree with LATS. Steroids are to blame for way too much. I also only believe that you see so many deaths in bodybuilding simply because there's SO MANY bodybuilders out there! Do you know that in the world right now you have 28million COMPETING bodybuilders?? Not recreational, but competing! Add the recreational bodybuilders in there, you have a huge number of people that use/abuse steroids.
Of course, when you have so many people, a lot will die. Not from steroids, just other causes. If they were all natural, just as many would die.
To say that all the deaths are because of the steroid use, is ridiculous.
In medical history only TWO cases of death were directly linked to steroids and those were both 2 cases were Anadrol was sused continuously for 12 months or more.

2. Dr Mooney was at the forefront of steroid use in AIDS. Now, in many countries, it is an approved AIDS treatment. That means, that the treatment with steroids was passed by the Health Departments in those countries. In order to do that, it had to be proven that steroids are an useful treatment of AIDS. That had to be done, because when a drug is approved for a certain use, the goverment picks up part of the bill.

3. From my own personal experience, I NEVER get sick when I am on steroids. Ever. Yes, when I do come off them, I have a high succestability to get sick, so you could say that my immune system is weaker when I come off, but while I am on, I beleive it is the other way.
Sure, this is no medical proof, but for that read point number 2 that I made above.

Regarding the mods - it was unanimous, they wanted to ban you Phil as I told you. And I am the reason why you weren't.
However, I need to make it clear that the mods here have as much power as I do and any decision any of them makes, is final. That has always been.
I have been close friends with my mods in real life for many years.
People like MikeS, LATS and IronMike were even character witnesses in my court case!
So this board is as much theirs as is mine, so I cannot and I will not undermine any of them at any time.

Now to make it clear. Noone wants to bann you now Phil, and certainly LATS was not the one that asked first for you to be banned.

One question begs though, and it is extremely important - from some of the things that you said to LATS in this thread and to MikeS in another thread, were you just assuming things from what I said to you or was another mod telling you things that were discussed in the Admin forum?
I need to know this as it's very important as some very sensitive issues are discussed in that forum (not about you) but legally liable issues, and I certainly CANNOT have anyone speak about issues that are discussed there outside that forum because that is a huge breach of trust.




I am in the same boat with BIG A....I have not once been ill while on AAS...back when i use to take it ;) I was never ill always felt like a million bucks...now that I have not touched it for years;) I get ill about once every winter.
 

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