Another BBer down

[rAJJIN]

There are mony more harmful things to do to your body. I am not against use, just abuse, or when you have medical conditions that occour because of the abuse. I just think it is hilarious that every time we have a BBer go down, 2 or 3 regulars on here start defending steroid use, singing the praises of steroid use, even going so far as to say that they are healthy. Be smart about your use, look for warning signs, but please, dont ignore the obvious.

I agree with that.
Theres a differance in proprer Use and Just Plain ole abuse.
That Dorian Yates thread is a perfect example....whats sad is some Poor guy
will probably beleive it and try it You have to use some good Judgment.
I also dont think anyone under ATLEAST 18 should Use them.
If your not healthy and Are taking them Knowing they can make you worse
or mess you up then thats deffinatley not a good decision.

 

[bigbaldbulldog]

Power

Knowledge is power

Power os control

Complete power is complete corruption

use your heads guys and think about long you can take a shitload of drugs before it catches up with your health...your good health..

Use it as a tool not a wrecking ball

 

[Massive G]

PHIL's just trying to get you guys to wake up and pay attention he isn't on an anti drug crusade all these substances have an effect on the body.

Even natural training put a huge stress on the heart and kidneys IMO.

IF you bulk and do heavy anaerobic exercise the effects are documented in many with an enlargement of a particular valve of the heart. Whose to say what the consequences of that will be?

Look at the deaths from obesity every year...your body doesn't discriminate if you are 300 lbs of fat or muscle, high BP and most have high Cholesterol and liver enzymes and RBC counts. Alo we dump a lot of protein in the urine after intense heavy intense exercise in a nephrologists point of view that is damaging to the kidneys. But they are looking at normal people. Whose to say?

Excess weight adds stress to the CV and kidneys. Couple that with AAS, GH, Clen, Ephedrine, UG Black market drugs, IGF-1, anti-E's Clomid HCG etc etc etc.

And what do you have?

Cycle safely and timely it is best I don't know too many people that are gonna be PROS on the net but I have seen some cycles that literally make me gasp outloud.

Juice is like training you don't need half as much as you think you do to grow.
Bloat and water isn't growth. I have learned more in 15 months that I have in 15 years about training drug free, lower protein, less supplements and lowered training intensity.

Of course this isn't applicable to most as it applies to advanced lifters.

Anyway if you read that thread on MM, you'll see he had cancer congestive heart failure blown kidneys liver was bad...shit everything was gone...what came first? What played a role?
Masswithclass died from complications of dialysis perhaps John did too.

I appreciate what PHil is trying to realy here think about the long term before you shit gun everything in the book in a quest to become 200 lbs or 220 or larger. I know I am concentrating on the long term hell I still plan on being big and might strong and lean as well as in good CV shape that may just be a 270-280 instead of a 300-310.


RIP JOHN and RIP MASSWithclass.

 

[rAJJIN]

Phils the man

When he talks I pay attention, Same with you MG.
I have a world of respect for you both.

Im sorry for the Guys Family.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

It just isnt fair

It is just not fair. We are not trying to hurt ourselves here. We want to be healthier. Thank you MASSIVE G, I cant tell you how much I appreciate your understanding on this.

 

[xcelbeyond]

PHIL's just trying to get you guys to wake up and pay attention he isn't on an anti drug crusade all these substances have an effect on the body.

Phil can be be short on words and his point doesn't come across very well. He is on OUR side!

We all can't be Ronald Reagan (the GREAT communicator). We are all tired of:
1) did you ever take steroids?
2) were you a bodybuilder?

- then BAM, that's what caused your death.

We live in an ever changing environment. I could go into quite some depth about how our air quality has substantially changed in the last 50 years - from both increased energy use and transportation. How much of a contributing factor is this? In the "general public," heart disease and cancer is hitting epedemic proportions.

I'm not say to stick your head in the sand and inject away. We all need to educate ourselves about MANY things and do things "smarter." (don't I say something to that effect in my signature)

 

[LATS]

phil.. if roddick was not involved in gay porn..did not have a compromised immune system , did not use heavy rec drugs, would he still be alive today even with heavy gear use?..yes..
phil.. no one is defending steroid use/abuse.. but, for all the 2 or 3 regulars , as you put it, who defend steroids there are 10 who are quick to blame gear use.. if someone has a compromised immune system and is injecting enormous amounts of gear, which, by the way , we do not know was the case with higgins than that person is asking for trouble.. in higgins case, he was abusing other things and had a illness for quite sometime.. so phil, how much do we want to blame the gear in this specific case?.. did it contribute 10% to his death.. 20%.. 0%..? his cause of death will not be listed as steroid abuse.. many can and will assume it had a hand in it.. but, we do not even know what the man took and how he took it.. such as the case with youngblood.. he is listed as died of a anyurism.. he had a family history of that.. did lifting very heavy and taking gear which would raise his blood pressure ect have anything to do with it going early?.. most probably. but, the point is he died of a cause that was not caused by gear.. gear may have rushed the situation ect but did not cause his death.. so what percentage of blame do we bring to gear? in roddick case it is really quite simple.. take a look at his lifestyle.. made a living in gay porn, rec drug abuse, and yes, he took gear.. how much i dont know and no one knew except roddick.. he got cancer and was in the mits of organ shutdown that he was fighting for months.. his heart stopped.. so, compromised immune system, taking rec drugs and gear.. how much do we blame the gear? so once again, if he was not involved the porn industry and did not get a compromised immune system and left the heavy rec drug use alone.. would he still be alive today? yes.. even with his gear use..? yes.. so once again ,in roddick's case, how much do you want to blame gear?.. so yes, i see what you are saying.. but, we know nothing about his gear use.. we all want people to be healthy.. if you look at all my posts, i hjave always said that i never go over 1000 mgs total a week.. ever.. i never advise anyone to go over that.. my past posts speak for themselves.. btw.. a nfl player just died after his game. he was 23 years old.. played for the 49'ers.. i am sure the media will start to hint at supplement abuse..

 

[PHIL HERNON]

I see your point but

phil.. if roddick was not involved in gay porn..did not have a compromised immune system , did not use heavy rec drugs, would he still be alive today even with heavy gear use?..yes..
phil.. no one is defending steroid use/abuse.. but, for all the 2 or 3 regulars , as you put it, who defend steroids there are 10 who are quick to blame gear use.. if someone has a compromised immune system and is injecting enormous amounts of gear, which, by the way , we do not know was the case with higgins than that person is asking for trouble.. in higgins case, he was abusing other things and had a illness for quite sometime.. so phil, how much do we want to blame the gear in this specific case?.. did it contribute 10% to his death.. 20%.. 0%..? his cause of death will not be listed as steroid abuse.. many can and will assume it had a hand in it.. but, we do not even know what the man took and how he took it.. such as the case with youngblood.. he is listed as died of a anyurism.. he had a family history of that.. did lifting very heavy and taking gear which would raise his blood pressure ect have anything to do with it going early?.. most probably. but, the point is he died of a cause that was not caused by gear.. gear may have rushed the situation ect but did not cause his death.. so what percentage of blame do we bring to gear? in roddick case it is really quite simple.. take a look at his lifestyle.. made a living in gay porn, rec drug abuse, and yes, he took gear.. how much i dont know and no one knew except roddick.. he got cancer and was in the mits of organ shutdown that he was fighting for months.. his heart stopped.. so, compromised immune system, taking rec drugs and gear.. how much do we blame the gear? so once again, if he was not involved the porn industry and did not get a compromised immune system and left the heavy rec drug use alone.. would he still be alive today? yes.. even with his gear use..? yes.. so once again ,in roddick's case, how much do you want to blame gear?..

Do you know how much he wat taking? Do you know how much anyone that has died or had kidney failure takes? Do you feel comfortable prescribing a specific dosage to BBers on here? Even if steroids contributed only 10% to his death, is that number ok with you? I fail to see how this prolonged his life. Do you know the autopsy results? I think steroids should be legal, I am all for their proper sane use, but to come here and defend steroids everytime someone drops dead is getting silly. I am not against steroids, but I am for education and clear thinking.

 

[LATS]

phil the fact is we do not know.. you dont know.. i dont know.. the point is he had a illness that was in the process of taking his life.. that illness is not brought on by gear use.. when i i said that it (gear) may have prolonged his life i was hinting at the specific illness that he had.. they use gear for that illness.. yes? as for prescibing a %.. wo said i was comfortable with that? you did.. i was commenting on a response to percentages made in this post.. if you can tell me.. that with the illness he had that gear was responsible, i am all ears..

 

[LATS]

the true point is this.. if someone is very ill.. that illness has nothing to do with his gear use.. he then takes a good amount of gear, injecting into a already compromised immune system ect.. is gear the cause..? i have stated in both posts that we do not know what he took.. could have been small amounys.. could have abused.. no one knows.. the only thing we do know is that he was sick.. and that the illness did not come from gear..

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Yes

phil the fact is we do not know.. you dont know.. i dont know.. the point is he had a illness that was in the process of taking his life.. that illness is not brought on by gear use.. when i i said that it (gear) may have prolonged his life i was hinting at the specific illness that he had.. they use gear for that illness.. yes? as for prescibing a %.. wo said i was comfortable with that? you did.. i was commenting on a response to percentages made in this post.. if you can tell me.. that with the illness he had that gear was responsible, i am all ears..

I know what you meant, and no, steroids do not prolong life in an AIDS patient. It makes you appear healthier though. Can you show me where it says that steroid use prolongs the life of an AIDS patient? Show me that and then we will further this discussion. One thing at a time.

 

[LATS]

phil you know as well as i do, that aids is a wasting diseased.. the sooner a person deteriorates the sooner they die.. steroids is given to patients to maintain muscle mass and slow the catabolic effects.,. of the disease.. mooney and other researchers have been prescribing gear to aids patients for years and not because they want them to look better.. as for onething at a time, if you can tell me (as i said in the above post) based on the illness he had that gear was responsible i would like to hear it.. aids next..

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Another thing to ponder

If he hadnt used steroids, would he have been able to be so successful in gay porn? Believe me when I tell you that steroids change your lifestyle also. I dont condem him for his lifestyle, he chose it. You cant tell me that they did not play a significant part in his demise. Well, I guess you can, but.....if you dont see it, there is no use in discussing it.

 

[LATS]

so.. because he took gear to look good in gay porn, and because he became ill whil doing gay porn, they are somehow responsible for his death..?? that is one hell of a stretch phil..

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Well

so.. because he took gear to look good in gay porn, they are somehow responsible for his death..?? that is one hell of a stretch phil..

It cant be too far of a stretch, it happened didnt it? Here, will this satisfy you? The guy died because it was in the "cards". It was just his "time". Is that what you want to see on the autopsy?

 

[LATS]

so we now blame gear for his taking gear to look good in gay porn.. the gay porn lifestyle causes him to have problems, and gear is somehow the cause.. wow.. never thought of it that way..

 

[PHIL HERNON]

?

so we now blame gear for his taking gear to look good in gay porn.. the gay porn lifestyle causes him to have problems, and gear is somehow the cause.. wow.. never thought of it that way..

Maybe you should start thinking this way instead of trying to be so sarcastic. This is not a joke LATS, if you have something else going on here that I dont know about, then maybe it is time to come clean. If you want me to look bad, then I would do it a thousand times over just to save a life.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Answer

Again, show me in a medical journal where steroids have prolonged the life of an AIDS patient. Back up your statement, dont just quote me someones name then put a silly face next to your statements.. That means nothing to me.

 

[LATS]

phil, you singled me out at the beginning if the post.. period.. i have responded very professionally while you say that i am "silly", as you put it in my thoughts amongst other insinuations.. the above post about somehow taking gear is responsible for his death because it made him successful in the porn industry which led to his illness and death.. and tie that in making gear his cause if death.. is a stretch.. if you feel i made yo look bad by responding to that.. please re read your post.. you also state that somehow i am comfortable making a % about death ect ect.. trying to once gain, insinuate somthing about me or my character.. re read your posts.. as for responding to your aids question.. i am still waiting on my response about how gear the cause of his death..

 

[LATS]

phil you also forget that i am the one who consistantly posts on here the need for low dose gear usage.. i have always put our members health above all else.. i never, ever recommend over 1000m,gs total week.. and most the time less.. so while you state you want to save lives.. i am all for that.. my past threads speak for themselves.. but, i want it based on the facts and not stretches.. ask anyone who i have helped prep and gave advise to.. i always recommend very low dosages.