Another Washington Post Article: Dying to Compete

[slesh]

So I finally had a minute to sit down and read the article - something none of y’all are bringing up - I don’t mean to be an age-ist but some of these people were old as fuck. Competing at 49 - voluntarily dehydrating yourself with diuretics at that age… I mean come on. Yeah some of these coaches and federation officials come off as shit heads but where does the personal responsibility start with this crap? I dunno - just my 2 cents. I grew up in a house where my mom would slap me silly for shit like this - not go around blaming others…

 

[FK86]

So I finally had a minute to sit down and read the article - something none of y’all are bringing up - I don’t mean to be an age-ist but some of these people were old as fuck. Competing at 49 - voluntarily dehydrating yourself with diuretics at that age… I mean come on. Yeah some of these coaches and federation officials come off as shit heads but where does the personal responsibility start with this crap? I dunno - just my 2 cents. I grew up in a house where my mom would slap me silly for shit like this - not go around blaming others…

Another thing not being brought up is the detached, sociopathic attitude of some of the coaches after the competitor dies.

 

[slesh]

Another thing not being brought up is the detached, sociopathic attitude of some of the coaches after the competitor dies.

I don’t disagree - I just don’t like how it paints the competititor as this helpless victim and the coach as a murderer. I said above some of these coaches are and look like shitheads - however we are all adults voluntarily putting this shit in our bodies and in 2022 with the internet we only have ourselves to blame when shit goes wrong…

 

[qbkilla]

This will be an unpopular opinion

If you look at this whole endeavor from an outsider's perspective

It will make you shake your head as to why the fuck people even do this to themselves

So many kill themselves to turn pro, then fizzle away before a pro career even begins. Maybe that should be an indicator of what they were genetically capable of to begin with

This will come across as anti-bodybuilding, but it makes sense why so many sensible people keep their regular careers outside of bodybuilding. Even some very good pros.

I agree with this opinion. Looking back I'm thankful I did stupid stuff for years (diet and training), had poor genetics, got injured a few times. All theses things led me to basically say "screw looking like a 240lb beast, I'm better off being lean and ripped". Had I had any success at looking like a bodybuilder it would have been reinforcing and I would have kept pushing, more food, more drugs, putting bbing over career. I'd be bigger than I am today but less healthy and well off.

There is no setpoint where I feel like people are pushing too hard but I think when people talking about not being able to consume enough food, need digestion support, need various medications each day, this is kind of the line. With that said many accept this their goal is to be as big as possible nothing wrong with that. But if someone has been at this for years and don't look like Daniel or luki...instead their 240 at 16 percentage body fat, is it really worth it to push that hard? By a certain age you should realize your not gonna achieve your ideal look, you can still use ped, perfect diet and training, but have more realistic goals. Rather than 260 at 17 percent at 2g taking 4 meds, maybe 205 at 7 percent running 750mg having much better health and even looking better because your leaner, injury fre, healthier, etc.

 

[Sixfoottwo]

I don’t disagree - I just don’t like how it paints the competititor as this helpless victim and the coach as a murderer. I said above some of these coaches are and look like shitheads - however we are all adults voluntarily putting this shit in our bodies and in 2022 with the internet we only have ourselves to blame when shit goes wrong…

I 100% agree with this. But it's not just in bodybuilding, it's in society as a whole. Most people seem to have the need to blame others for their shit.

That being said it's very sad that these people pay the ultimate price of course.

 

[FK86]

I don’t disagree - I just don’t like how it paints the competititor as this helpless victim and the coach as a murderer. I said above some of these coaches are and look like shitheads - however we are all adults voluntarily putting this shit in our bodies and in 2022 with the internet we only have ourselves to blame when shit goes wrong…

I get ya. My comment was in addition to yours, not in contrast.

 

[Brock456]

I read most of the article. I see a lot of the deaths were ruled as enlarged heart, kidneys, liver, etc.

I wonder if any of these guys/girls got bloodwork, EKG’s, ultrasounds, etc.
They all know the dangers that come with it. I’m curious if they knew about their health issues or just didn’t care.

Could the deaths have been prevented if they knew and backed off? Or were they just that determined to be the best and didn’t care? It’s not like most of that stuff happened overnight.

I see a lot of current guys Nick walker, clarida to name a few getting their Calcium scores and seem to be monitoring their health. Larry Wheels, Seth Feroce saying they are coming off for good.

 

[marssel]

Washington Post has another article out about the "dark side of bodybuilding" This time focusing on the dangers and deaths in bodybuilding. Mentiones a few well known coaches. Some of the deaths are a bit of a stretch, like Luke Sandoe which is well know that he comitted suicide they imply that the death was due to an enlarged heart with acute left ventricular failure and left ventricular hypertrophy (no mention of suicide or actual cause, only saying he died and the patholigist concluded the heart . Just mentioning that the heart condition was likely from bodybuilding.

Also write about Bostin Lloyd which I think is a stretch to use as a represenation of bodybuilding.

Long article, but the do print a couple emails with protocols from coaches, and they mention that Luke was making $144,000 per year from Redcon (a lot of people always wonder what the higher level athletes make so found this interesting).

To be honest I found most the article very weak as far as concrete facts. You can have a read hear (full article no, subscription to WP required):

MSN

It’s just more bodybuilding hate, the NFL is loaded with drug use along with destroyed bodies and blended brains and they want to focus on us bc we look a certain way obtained only by insane lifelong commitment greater than most other sports and that just bothers people.

 

[slesh]

I 100% agree with this. But it's not just in bodybuilding, it's in society as a whole. Most people seem to have the need to blame others for their shit.

That being said it's very sad that these people pay the ultimate price of course.

Yes this 100%. Reminds me of parents today who blame the teacher and not take responsibility for their shit parenting and can’t acknowledge their kid might be a little fucking asshole. I’m only 36 - so this is not like a major back in the day rant lol - but back in my day my parents sided with the teacher every single time. They knew I was a little scheming piece of shit who couldn’t be trusted. But these delusional helicopter parents today… Jesus Christ it makes me sick. Feels like this absolutely applies to the article. Lol sorry - rant over.

 

[hawkmoon]

So I finally had a minute to sit down and read the article - something none of y’all are bringing up - I don’t mean to be an age-ist but some of these people were old as fuck. Competing at 49 - voluntarily dehydrating yourself with diuretics at that age… I mean come on. Yeah some of these coaches and federation officials come off as shit heads but where does the personal responsibility start with this crap? I dunno - just my 2 cents. I grew up in a house where my mom would slap me silly for shit like this - not go around blaming others…

Hey! I resemble that remark!


But that's why I called it quits for the stage. You can bodybuild, and even use gear responsibly, but prep is hell on the body.

I turned 50 a week after my last show and was satisfied to walk away.

 

[slesh]

Hey! I resemble that remark!


But that's why I called it quits for the stage. You can bodybuild, and even use gear responsibly, but prep is hell on the body.

I turned 50 a week after my last show and was satisfied to walk away.

Haha I know by your response you know what I meant. 49 ain’t old in life life - I just meant to still be competing and put your body through that. Especially when you have children to take care of. Super irresponsible and that’s why it’s hard for me to sympathize with some of these people and the article in general.

 

[Heath82]

Albert Beckles competed at 61. Want to say he went to the Olympia in his 50s. He’s still alive. At the end of the day, genetics trump all

 

[Aikman56]

Then there is the Gearhart one where they say: "the coroner’s office concluded that Gearhart died of cardiac arrest with a number of contributing factors, including caloric restriction, a thickened heart muscle, the use of steroids, diuretics and metformin, along with covid-19"

Quite possibly, the only existing example of the Washington Post not ascribing cause of death EXCLUSIVELY to the Beer Bug.

 

[Aikman56]

This will be an unpopular opinion

If you look at this whole endeavor from an outsider's perspective

It will make you shake your head as to why the fuck people even do this to themselves

So many kill themselves to turn pro, then fizzle away before a pro career even begins. Maybe that should be an indicator of what they were genetically capable of to begin with

This will come across as anti-bodybuilding, but it makes sense why so many sensible people keep their regular careers outside of bodybuilding. Even some very good pros.

All of this is true.

But by the same token, the "outside world" accepts as normal people eating, drinking, and smoking themselves to death, plodding through life in obese (neigh useless) bodies, slowly marching to the cliff's edge.

Do some of our brothers reach their own cliff before their time? Yes.
But I would confidently argue a more satisfying, fulfilling life.

Also, this article focuses on the worst of the worst...we could do an article with the same number of "normal people" dying from cheeseburgers and beers, having drawn from a MUCH smaller sample size than the number of competitors that do reckless things. At the end of the day, we pick our own poison, and the mainstream will always point the finger at us because our "vices" place us in meat vehicles that they can only dream of piloting.

And don't kid yourself, they are jealous. Nobody likes dadbods. If this weren't true. Magic Mike wouldn't be getting ready to shit another sequel onto the populace.

 

[TrippplePPP]

I read this article today as it was on Yahoo's main page. They really nailed Shelby in the article and I was surprised by everything in the article. Its interesting to think how a person can have a disconnect from what would be a good idea and then pushing past it as they are instructed to do so or have a desire for a certain outcome enough to forgo rational thought.

 

[hawkmoon]

I read this article today as it was on Yahoo's main page. They really nailed Shelby in the article and I was surprised by everything in the article. Its interesting to think how a person can have a disconnect from what would be a good idea and then pushing past it as they are instructed to do so or have a desire for a certain outcome enough to forgo rational thought.

Honestly I was surprised at some of the doses for the girls, but that just shows my ignorance. A lot of us would like to see lower doses used, but perhaps that's just wishful thinking about what it takes

Here's the copy and paste of one of the protocols:

From: Shelby Starnes
To: Jodie Engle August 31, 2020 Supplements:

We will NOT be cycling clen (or T3) thru the prep – we will stay on, gradually increasing the dose a bit every couple weeks or so, then after the show we will taper off both over 2 weeks.

Lower your clen to 60mcg daily for now.

Have T3 onhand but don’t start until I say Nolvadex – start now. Take 10mg every 12 hours (so 20mg daily).

Arimidex – start now – ½ mg every other day. The last 4 weeks bump to 1mg daily.
For a diuretic get both Aldactone and Dyazide

Keep these the same: 2 IU Growth (1 iu fasted, 1 iu pre training)

20mg Tbol pre workout

40mg anavar (20 mg fasted, 20mg pre training)

100 mg test e weekly 100 mg EQ weekly

Winstrol – 50mg daily the last 6 weeks.

Proviron – 25mg daily the last 6 weeks
also

Masteron – starting at 8 weeks out – 50mg every 3rd day

From: Jodie Engle
To: Shelby Starnes
Perfect. Im so f----ing overwhelmed and excited. I have never seen a plan this detailed in my life… ill get everything needed supp wise. I have aquazide and hydrazide for diuretics but ill order Aldactone and the others you said.

From: Shelby Starnes
 To: Jodie Engle
Sounds good Get Dyazide- I don’t think the others have Triamterene, just HCTZ

From: Jodie Engle
To: Shelby Starnes
Ok ill get some! I’ll be 100% ready and on plan tomorrow! Let’s go get a f---ing pro card!!!!

From: Shelby Starnes
To: Jodie Engle Here we goooooooo

 

[165StateChamp]

Honestly I was surprised at some of the doses for the girls, but that just shows my ignorance. A lot of us would like to see lower doses used, but perhaps that's just wishful thinking about what it takes

Here's the copy and paste of one of the protocols:

From: Shelby Starnes
To: Jodie Engle August 31, 2020 Supplements:

We will NOT be cycling clen (or T3) thru the prep – we will stay on, gradually increasing the dose a bit every couple weeks or so, then after the show we will taper off both over 2 weeks.

Lower your clen to 60mcg daily for now.

Have T3 onhand but don’t start until I say Nolvadex – start now. Take 10mg every 12 hours (so 20mg daily).

Arimidex – start now – ½ mg every other day. The last 4 weeks bump to 1mg daily.
For a diuretic get both Aldactone and Dyazide

Keep these the same: 2 IU Growth (1 iu fasted, 1 iu pre training)

20mg Tbol pre workout

40mg anavar (20 mg fasted, 20mg pre training)

100 mg test e weekly 100 mg EQ weekly

Winstrol – 50mg daily the last 6 weeks.

Proviron – 25mg daily the last 6 weeks
also

Masteron – starting at 8 weeks out – 50mg every 3rd day

From: Jodie Engle
To: Shelby Starnes
Perfect. Im so f----ing overwhelmed and excited. I have never seen a plan this detailed in my life… ill get everything needed supp wise. I have aquazide and hydrazide for diuretics but ill order Aldactone and the others you said.

From: Shelby Starnes
 To: Jodie Engle
Sounds good Get Dyazide- I don’t think the others have Triamterene, just HCTZ

From: Jodie Engle
To: Shelby Starnes
Ok ill get some! I’ll be 100% ready and on plan tomorrow! Let’s go get a f---ing pro card!!!!

From: Shelby Starnes
To: Jodie Engle Here we goooooooo

That woman competed in women’s physique and had horrible genetics. The fact she wasn’t on tren was amazing. This is not an abnormal women’s cycle for the muscle divisions.

 

[hawkmoon]

That woman competed in women’s physique and had horrible genetics. The fact she wasn’t on tren was amazing. This is not an abnormal women’s cycle for the muscle divisions.

Yeah, I fully acknowledge my naivety on the usage in that division. Honestly I thought women's BB might use those doses, as the orals are the same as m own pepreps, if not higher.

I've met and talked to Iris Kyle though, so I should know better

And yes, it's apparent by looking at her physique that's she's attempting to make up for poor genetics. As Shelby pointed out earlier some of these women's switch from one body disorder to another, and that's dangerous in itself.

 

[b-boy]

Honestly I was surprised at some of the doses for the girls, but that just shows my ignorance. A lot of us would like to see lower doses used, but perhaps that's just wishful thinking about what it takes

Here's the copy and paste of one of the protocols:

From: Shelby Starnes
To: Jodie Engle August 31, 2020 Supplements:

We will NOT be cycling clen (or T3) thru the prep – we will stay on, gradually increasing the dose a bit every couple weeks or so, then after the show we will taper off both over 2 weeks.

Lower your clen to 60mcg daily for now.

Have T3 onhand but don’t start until I say Nolvadex – start now. Take 10mg every 12 hours (so 20mg daily).

Arimidex – start now – ½ mg every other day. The last 4 weeks bump to 1mg daily.
For a diuretic get both Aldactone and Dyazide

Keep these the same: 2 IU Growth (1 iu fasted, 1 iu pre training)

20mg Tbol pre workout

40mg anavar (20 mg fasted, 20mg pre training)

100 mg test e weekly 100 mg EQ weekly

Winstrol – 50mg daily the last 6 weeks.

Proviron – 25mg daily the last 6 weeks
also

Masteron – starting at 8 weeks out – 50mg every 3rd day

From: Jodie Engle
To: Shelby Starnes
Perfect. Im so f----ing overwhelmed and excited. I have never seen a plan this detailed in my life… ill get everything needed supp wise. I have aquazide and hydrazide for diuretics but ill order Aldactone and the others you said.

From: Shelby Starnes
 To: Jodie Engle
Sounds good Get Dyazide- I don’t think the others have Triamterene, just HCTZ

From: Jodie Engle
To: Shelby Starnes
Ok ill get some! I’ll be 100% ready and on plan tomorrow! Let’s go get a f---ing pro card!!!!

From: Shelby Starnes
To: Jodie Engle Here we goooooooo

Shelby like all my other coaches ask me "what have you ran in the past" then advised a cycle for me based on my prior cycles and dosages.

 

[hawkmoon]

Shelby like all my other coaches ask me "what have you ran in the past" then advised a cycle for me based on my prior cycles and dosages.

I believe this 100%.

For one, no good coach is going to overload a client, and no good coach should either shoot in the dark, nor use blanket templates.
Even if a coach wants to pull back dosages, many clients will not comply.

I personally refuse to work with people who are adamant on what I believe are higher than needed dosages, which will cost me customers. I am sure they can find coaches who will accommodate, who may take them further. All that said, coaching isn't my bread and butter so I can afford to say no a lot.

Ultimately it's on the client to decide what to do, and while coaches can influence their decisions no one mentioned in the WP article was so inexperienced to not be able to make their own judgement calls.