Any legit OTC muscle building supps?

[Stewie]

Different than D asparic acid I assume? I recall that being popular years ago

Yes different. For the simplicity on context, AA is a fatty acid, DAA is an amino acid.

 

[BigGame]

Maybe Epicatechin or Ursolic Acid? I wouldn't expect much.

 

[1234trew]

Might want to take a look at ergo-log.
Actual studies on many of the otc compounds.

 

[DK0223]

It ain't Naposim, but it's close!

Can’t tell if you’re being serious lol

 

[DK0223]

BetaTor's another one to consider

This is HMB right

yup it is got it

 

[totalrecomp]

Before opening the thread this came to mind. Never tried it, but mildly intrigued.
Anyone here use it, noticed increased soreness that definitely wasn't placebo?
It's a bit expensive, is it available anywhere cheaply "in bulk"?

Even if "effective" it might be hard to measure results that you could definitely pin on something like this. But say it could add even a pound of muscle over say 6-12 months it would be worth it to me. But how would you know what did what?

SNS X-gels can be found for under $35 for 100 softgels. You only take it on training days so that is 17-25 workouts worth for something that has three USA uni studies on it. It is not the cheapest but not outrageous either.

Anything you find that is cheaper is most likely the dry powder ARA that is only 10% ARA by weight. You want softgels that are 40% ARA.

Link to the studies on it:

Effects of Arachidonic Acid Supplementation on Acute Anabolic Signaling and Chronic Functional Performance and Body Composition Adaptations

Background The primary purpose of this investigation was to examine the effects of arachidonic acid (ARA) supplementation on functional performance and body composition in trained males. In addition, we performed a secondary study looking at molecular responses of ARA supplementation following...

journals.plos.org

2.9% increase in LBM, upper limit 2.6kg or 5.72lbs in eight weeks
9% increase in muscle thickness

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1173/0710/files/baylorbookletfinal.pdf?5155416293678148572 this study had them take 1000mg everyday for 50 days.

Over 50 days a average of 25lbs added to bench in user group which was 45% better than placebo group.

"Average Power In the standard Wingate cycle ergometer test often used by professional athletes to measure anaerobic power and performance, the X-Factor group outperformed the placebo group on Average Power by an amazing 21 watts (AA: 37.9W P: 17.0W). That’s a net increase of nearly 225% compared to placebo!"


These were trained subjects as well. Nothing that is going to light the world on fire but 5lbs in 8 weeks is very solid if you ask me.

 

[BigGame]

Not a fan of ARA. Sore joints. Overall, just not worth it.

 

[DK0223]

SNS X-gels can be found for under $35 for 100 softgels. You only take it on training days so that is 17-25 workouts worth for something that has three USA uni studies on it. It is not the cheapest but not outrageous either.

Anything you find that is cheaper is most likely the dry powder ARA that is only 10% ARA by weight. You want softgels that are 40% ARA.

Link to the studies on it:

Effects of Arachidonic Acid Supplementation on Acute Anabolic Signaling and Chronic Functional Performance and Body Composition Adaptations

Background The primary purpose of this investigation was to examine the effects of arachidonic acid (ARA) supplementation on functional performance and body composition in trained males. In addition, we performed a secondary study looking at molecular responses of ARA supplementation following...

journals.plos.org

2.9% increase in LBM, upper limit 2.6kg or 5.72lbs in eight weeks
9% increase in muscle thickness

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1173/0710/files/baylorbookletfinal.pdf?5155416293678148572 this study had them take 1000mg everyday for 50 days.

Over 50 days a average of 25lbs added to bench in user group which was 45% better than placebo group.

"Average Power In the standard Wingate cycle ergometer test often used by professional athletes to measure anaerobic power and performance, the X-Factor group outperformed the placebo group on Average Power by an amazing 21 watts (AA: 37.9W P: 17.0W). That’s a net increase of nearly 225% compared to placebo!"


These were trained subjects as well. Nothing that is going to light the world on fire but 5lbs in 8 weeks is very solid if you ask me.

Thank you !

 

[kingpeon]

Can’t tell if you’re being serious lol

well, considering that about 50% of what I post is complete bullshit, I'd say it's a safe bet to just flip a coin on this one!

 

[MoonUnit]

ARA definitely works. Good pumps and fullness. Makes you sore as hell. Probably the best natty supp you can get. But I don’t like the whole idea of increased inflammation.

 

[buck]

The most anabolic OTC product I know of is food.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

A-bolic4 blows! or rather it sucks because it could be what it claims it is but falls short because they put the muscle-building emphasis on the Apigenin.

Buy the ingredients separate, particularly the Ajuga Turkestanica extract, since The Lab uses worthless Chinese shit Ajuga! Tonvara TrueTurk Turkesterone is where it's at. You can thank me later

Oh so you mean you believe in the company that convinced you with their marketing on their website that they are the only place on earth to get Turkesterone? A company that came into business decades AFTER all the studies were done on Turkesterone? Here Ill give you the link so everyone here can read their marketing https://www.tonvara.net/turkpage1.html So all the countless studies that were done on Turkesterone and were done in the 60's, 70's 80's, 90's 2000's.......and yet this Tonvara company has only been around for a decade or so....please tell me where everyone got legitimate Turkesterone before Tonvara opened? So this guy goes all around online putting up articles to corner his market (He is out of Oxford and Sussex Great Britain!!! Not Uzbekistan) https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/07805239
Did you care to read the fine print down the bottom of all the anonymous articles he throws around the net? { About The Author David Watkins is an executive of the company that owns the Tonvara Premium Natural Supplements brand }. These guys also go around the net shi&^alking every other company that they see as competitors (under made up names) . Do you know what else you need to go out and buy from them KingPeon? Since you believe in their marketing so much you need to get out your wallet and buy their patented Amino22 product https://www.journalism.co.uk/press-...lth-and-wellbeing-market-in-2016/s66/a600423/ Its got the patented "Young Tissue Extract" KingPeon Oh my god....unbelievable! And all because they say it is!

We buy our source of Turkesterone from a ingredient supplier here in the United States, who acquires it overseas. It has been tested repeatedly.

Turkesterone is not even the most potent ingredient in Abolic. It improves protein assimilation by 20-25% which is great but the real deal whether you spent the time to study it or not is Apigenin.
Which has shown increases in muscle mass in studies https://www.researchgate.net/public..._myoblast_differentiation_by_regulating_Prmt7

and is showing more and more in newer studies https://academic.oup.com/biomedgerontology/article/75/11/2081/5898558
and reduction of visceral fat https://www.researchgate.net/public...6_signaling_axis_and_reduces_visceral_obesity

 

[kingpeon]

Oh so you mean you believe in the company that convinced you with their marketing on their website that they are the only place on earth to get Turkesterone? A company that came into business decades AFTER all the studies were done on Turkesterone? Here Ill give you the link so everyone here can read their marketing https://www.tonvara.net/turkpage1.html So all the countless studies that were done on Turkesterone and were done in the 60's, 70's 80's, 90's 2000's.......and yet this Tonvara company has only been around for a decade or so....please tell me where everyone got legitimate Turkesterone before Tonvara opened? So this guy goes all around online putting up articles to corner his market (He is out of Oxford and Sussex Great Britain!!! Not Uzbekistan) https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/07805239
Did you care to read the fine print down the bottom of all the anonymous articles he throws around the net? { About The Author David Watkins is an executive of the company that owns the Tonvara Premium Natural Supplements brand }. These guys also go around the net shi&^alking every other company that they see as competitors (under made up names) . Do you know what else you need to go out and buy from them KingPeon? Since you believe in their marketing so much you need to get out your wallet and buy their patented Amino22 product https://www.journalism.co.uk/press-...lth-and-wellbeing-market-in-2016/s66/a600423/ Its got the patented "Young Tissue Extract" KingPeon Oh my god....unbelievable! And all because they say it is!

We buy our source of Turkesterone from a ingredient supplier here in the United States, who acquires it overseas. It has been tested repeatedly.

Turkesterone is not even the most potent ingredient in Abolic. It improves protein assimilation by 20-25% which is great but the real deal whether you spent the time to study it or not is Apigenin.
Which has shown increases in muscle mass in studies https://www.researchgate.net/public..._myoblast_differentiation_by_regulating_Prmt7

and is showing more and more in newer studies https://academic.oup.com/biomedgerontology/article/75/11/2081/5898558
and reduction of visceral fat https://www.researchgate.net/public...6_signaling_axis_and_reduces_visceral_obesity

The Lab uses garbage Ajuga. I've used REAL Ajuga, I know the difference, it's tangible. It's tantamount to comparing Tribulus Terrestris to Tribestan or Eurycoma Longifolia to LJ100, or any other standardized extract, etc. etc.

The stuff's a rip-off, basically paying for Apiginen, Quercifit and Bioperine

 

[BigGame]

Oh so you mean you believe in the company that convinced you with their marketing on their website that they are the only place on earth to get Turkesterone? A company that came into business decades AFTER all the studies were done on Turkesterone? Here Ill give you the link so everyone here can read their marketing https://www.tonvara.net/turkpage1.html So all the countless studies that were done on Turkesterone and were done in the 60's, 70's 80's, 90's 2000's.......and yet this Tonvara company has only been around for a decade or so....please tell me where everyone got legitimate Turkesterone before Tonvara opened? So this guy goes all around online putting up articles to corner his market (He is out of Oxford and Sussex Great Britain!!! Not Uzbekistan) https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/07805239
Did you care to read the fine print down the bottom of all the anonymous articles he throws around the net? { About The Author David Watkins is an executive of the company that owns the Tonvara Premium Natural Supplements brand }. These guys also go around the net shi&^alking every other company that they see as competitors (under made up names) . Do you know what else you need to go out and buy from them KingPeon? Since you believe in their marketing so much you need to get out your wallet and buy their patented Amino22 product https://www.journalism.co.uk/press-...lth-and-wellbeing-market-in-2016/s66/a600423/ Its got the patented "Young Tissue Extract" KingPeon Oh my god....unbelievable! And all because they say it is!

We buy our source of Turkesterone from a ingredient supplier here in the United States, who acquires it overseas. It has been tested repeatedly.

Turkesterone is not even the most potent ingredient in Abolic. It improves protein assimilation by 20-25% which is great but the real deal whether you spent the time to study it or not is Apigenin.
Which has shown increases in muscle mass in studies https://www.researchgate.net/public..._myoblast_differentiation_by_regulating_Prmt7

and is showing more and more in newer studies https://academic.oup.com/biomedgerontology/article/75/11/2081/5898558
and reduction of visceral fat https://www.researchgate.net/public...6_signaling_axis_and_reduces_visceral_obesity

Interesting. Is 400mg Apigenin daily a good dose? Maybe even more than that?

 

[warlock]

That's the ONE, slick! Just don't go buying it all up! Save some for the rest of us, would ya?

Any brand you can recommend in the US? what dose do you take?

 

[warlock]

SNS X-gels can be found for under $35 for 100 softgels. You only take it on training days so that is 17-25 workouts worth for something that has three USA uni studies on it. It is not the cheapest but not outrageous either.

Anything you find that is cheaper is most likely the dry powder ARA that is only 10% ARA by weight. You want softgels that are 40% ARA.

Link to the studies on it:

Effects of Arachidonic Acid Supplementation on Acute Anabolic Signaling and Chronic Functional Performance and Body Composition Adaptations

Background The primary purpose of this investigation was to examine the effects of arachidonic acid (ARA) supplementation on functional performance and body composition in trained males. In addition, we performed a secondary study looking at molecular responses of ARA supplementation following...

journals.plos.org

2.9% increase in LBM, upper limit 2.6kg or 5.72lbs in eight weeks
9% increase in muscle thickness

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1173/0710/files/baylorbookletfinal.pdf?5155416293678148572 this study had them take 1000mg everyday for 50 days.

Over 50 days a average of 25lbs added to bench in user group which was 45% better than placebo group.

"Average Power In the standard Wingate cycle ergometer test often used by professional athletes to measure anaerobic power and performance, the X-Factor group outperformed the placebo group on Average Power by an amazing 21 watts (AA: 37.9W P: 17.0W). That’s a net increase of nearly 225% compared to placebo!"


These were trained subjects as well. Nothing that is going to light the world on fire but 5lbs in 8 weeks is very solid if you ask me.

Do you take 4 of those gels on workout days only? How many weeks do you run it straight?

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

The Lab uses garbage Ajuga. I've used REAL Ajuga, I know the difference, it's tangible. It's tantamount to comparing Tribulus Terrestris to Tribestan or Eurycoma Longifolia to LJ100, or any other standardized extract, etc. etc.

The stuff's a rip-off, basically paying for Apiginen, Quercifit and Bioperine

Apigenin is by FAR the most expensive compound in there.....its not even close with the other ingredients

 

[DK0223]

Apigenin is by FAR the most expensive compound in there.....its not even close with the other ingredients

So how bout you Dante, any suggestions? I assume abolic lol

 

[kingpeon]

Apigenin is by FAR the most expensive compound in there.....its not even close with the other ingredients

Any brand you can recommend in the US? what dose do you take?

No, no brand in the US. I like Tonvara, because the stuff works! No reason to look elsewhere

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

So how bout you Dante, any suggestions? I assume abolic lol

Honestly man, Creatine has proven itself to be one of the most worthy OTC supplements ever. I think Citrulline is a great product. If you are after a hormonal increase, then get on TRT. If you are after vascularity than take citrulline, red beet powder, and low doses of cialis daily (will also lower bp those three). Alot of people are high on Beta Alanine. Is there a reason why it has to be OTC? I mean if you want the best bang for your buck then being under a doctors oversee of TRT and (maybe a low and i do mean low dose of GH) would produce the best results you are after.