• All new members please introduce your self here and welcome to the board:
    http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
M4B Store Banner
intex
Riptropin Store banner
Generation X Bodybuilding Forum
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Mysupps Store Banner
IP Gear Store Banner
PM-Ace-Labs
Ganabol Store Banner
Spend $100 and get bonus needles free at sterile syringes
Professional Muscle Store open now
sunrise2
PHARMAHGH1
kinglab
ganabol2
Professional Muscle Store open now
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
azteca
granabolic1
napsgear-210x65
esquel
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
ashp210
UGFREAK-banner-PM
1-SWEDISH-PEPTIDE-CO
YMSApril21065
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
advertise1
tjk
advertise1
advertise1
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store

Any legit OTC muscle building supps?

These were trained subjects as well. Nothing that is going to light the world on fire but 5lbs in 8 weeks is very solid if you ask me.

I beg to differ, 5lbs in 8 weeks would be INSANE in trained subjects, for a fatty acid. If it did that in us, trained and juiced subjects, it would be crazy. Even a tenth of that would be good.

If it causes soreness that tells me it's at least doing something so that is a "good" sign to me.
 
How do you dose it if you don't mind sharing?
I don't use much due to the cost-effectiveness aspect. I mean, it's 42 cents a capsule of this Ajuga! vs 12 cents for a 5 mgs. tab of Naps. And I already know 15 mgs. of good Dbol blows ONE cap of good Ajuga outta the fuckin' water!

However, I do feel it's very synergistic with Methandienone and allows me to lessen the typical negative side effects of the steroid by 'substituting' the higher dose with a similar-in-action natural ergogenic aid. So a good compromise, in my experience, has been 15 mgs. Naps and 400 mgs. Ajugaturk per day, 200 mgs. A.M. and 200 P.M.
 
Apigenin is by FAR the most expensive compound in there.....its not even close with the other ingredients
Yeah! It's because you're using a cheap, inferior, shit-stain of an excuse for REAL Ajuga!
 
ARA definitely works. Good pumps and fullness. Makes you sore as hell. Probably the best natty supp you can get. But I don’t like the whole idea of increased inflammation.

They checked for inflammation markers:

3. No/Reduced Inflammation.
Arachidonic acid is a substrate used by the body to make eicosanoids, which are involved in inflammation. This has lead to a popular misconception; ARA supplementation must promote inflammation. Numerous other studies have examined this, and come to similar conclusions. It doesn’t. Inflammation is a tightly regulated biological response, that is not simply initiated by consuming ARA. However, the misconception persists. Leaving almost no stone unturned, the Auckland study addresses this in extensive detail by looking for changes in a wide range of immune cell surface markers (ITGAM, ELANE, CEACAM8, CD68, CD163, CD206) and inflammatory cytokines (IL1B, IL6, CCL2, TNF), at both the systemic and local level. The result: there was no evidence of elevated inflammation with ARA supplementation in any marker tested, at either the systemic or tissue level. In fact, there was a modest reduction in blood monocyte counts, as well as PBMC mRNA expression of (ELANE) and CD66b (CEACAM8). As the researchers pointed out,
“These changes would appear to reflect, if anything, a reduced basal systemic inflammatory response… These findings do not support the common assertion that heightened dietary intake and tissue abundance of ARA will promote chronic inflammation in otherwise healthy individuals.”

I have plenty of injuries and chronic pain and as long as I take x-gels preworkout only I have had zero systemic pain or joint issues. In the beginning, the developer, William Llewellyn, suggested no omega-3 intake while supplementing with ARA. I never abided by this and simply took them at different times of the day and the ARA only on workout days. I think the combination of significant strength gains(for a natural supplement) combined with daily dosing(as originally suggested to do) and the removal of all omega-3's and joint supplements(also originally suggested to do) is what caused some to initially report issues with joint pain.

1 whole egg has about 75mg of ARA, depending on size, and I believe this played a role in the success of high egg diets as prescribed by the likes of Vince Gironda and company. The combination of high-quality protein and an anabolic fatty acid was, and is, a pretty potent combination considering you can get them at the grocery store lol. ARA is also mandated by law to be in baby formula and that's when we make the best gains of our lives so it has to work right??? LOL
 
Yeah! It's because you're using a cheap, inferior, shit-stain of an excuse for REAL Ajuga!

Do you have a lab test proving your claims of shit quality?
Have you used both products to compare?

If you do not have the above I am unsure of how you can make such bold claims.
 
I beg to differ, 5lbs in 8 weeks would be INSANE in trained subjects, for a fatty acid. If it did that in us, trained and juiced subjects, it would be crazy. Even a tenth of that would be good.

If it causes soreness that tells me it's at least doing something so that is a "good" sign to me.

That was the high end result. The average was 2.9% increase in LBM.


"No significant differences between groups in LBM and FM were detected at the baseline (p>0.05). There was a significant group by time interaction for LBM (p<0.0005). Post-hoc comparisons revealed that only the Ex ARA group increased LBM significantly following 8 weeks of supplementation (2.9%, p<0.0007) (Fig 1a). In addition, Ex ARA group demonstrated a CIdiff not crossing zero for the increase in LBM (Ex ARA: 95% CIdiff: mean 1.6kg, lower limit 0.7, upper limit 2.6kg; Ex CTL: 95% CIdiff: mean 0.04kg, lower limit -0.9, upper limit 0.99kg)."

So the low result user only obtained .7kg or 1.54lbs in that time with the mean users at 1.6kg or 3.52lbs. Still pretty damn good for a natural fatty acid and trained(by research standards) subjects.
 
They checked for inflammation markers:

3. No/Reduced Inflammation.
Arachidonic acid is a substrate used by the body to make eicosanoids, which are involved in inflammation. This has lead to a popular misconception; ARA supplementation must promote inflammation. Numerous other studies have examined this, and come to similar conclusions. It doesn’t. Inflammation is a tightly regulated biological response, that is not simply initiated by consuming ARA. However, the misconception persists. Leaving almost no stone unturned, the Auckland study addresses this in extensive detail by looking for changes in a wide range of immune cell surface markers (ITGAM, ELANE, CEACAM8, CD68, CD163, CD206) and inflammatory cytokines (IL1B, IL6, CCL2, TNF), at both the systemic and local level. The result: there was no evidence of elevated inflammation with ARA supplementation in any marker tested, at either the systemic or tissue level. In fact, there was a modest reduction in blood monocyte counts, as well as PBMC mRNA expression of (ELANE) and CD66b (CEACAM8). As the researchers pointed out,


I have plenty of injuries and chronic pain and as long as I take x-gels preworkout only I have had zero systemic pain or joint issues. In the beginning, the developer, William Llewellyn, suggested no omega-3 intake while supplementing with ARA. I never abided by this and simply took them at different times of the day and the ARA only on workout days. I think the combination of significant strength gains(for a natural supplement) combined with daily dosing(as originally suggested to do) and the removal of all omega-3's and joint supplements(also originally suggested to do) is what caused some to initially report issues with joint pain.

1 whole egg has about 75mg of ARA, depending on size, and I believe this played a role in the success of high egg diets as prescribed by the likes of Vince Gironda and company. The combination of high-quality protein and an anabolic fatty acid was, and is, a pretty potent combination considering you can get them at the grocery store lol. ARA is also mandated by law to be in baby formula and that's when we make the best gains of our lives so it has to work right??? LOL

This is valuable information. I was always turned off by the possible inflammation increase aspect.

How far away do you spread your omega 3's from the ARA? How many ARA gels do you take? 4?
 
That was the high end result. The average was 2.9% increase in LBM.


"No significant differences between groups in LBM and FM were detected at the baseline (p>0.05). There was a significant group by time interaction for LBM (p<0.0005). Post-hoc comparisons revealed that only the Ex ARA group increased LBM significantly following 8 weeks of supplementation (2.9%, p<0.0007) (Fig 1a). In addition, Ex ARA group demonstrated a CIdiff not crossing zero for the increase in LBM (Ex ARA: 95% CIdiff: mean 1.6kg, lower limit 0.7, upper limit 2.6kg; Ex CTL: 95% CIdiff: mean 0.04kg, lower limit -0.9, upper limit 0.99kg)."

So the low result user only obtained .7kg or 1.54lbs in that time with the mean users at 1.6kg or 3.52lbs. Still pretty damn good for a natural fatty acid and trained(by research standards) subjects.

That study was partially funded by Molecular Nutrition:" Competing interests: This study was partially funded by Molecular Nutrition TM. Patent details to declare: product: 'X-Factor Advanced', patent number: #6.841.573." so should be taken with a grain of salt. My own experience with ARA is one of pain+inflammation+negligible results, so my recommendation would be to stay away if you have any kind of inflammatory condition like many of us here suffer, here is another study:



Results
Wingate relative peak power was significantly greater after 50 days of supplementation while the inflammatory cytokine IL-6 was significantly lower after 25 days of supplementation in the AA group. PGE2 levels tended to be greater in the AA group. However, no statistically significant differences were observed between groups in body composition, strength, anabolic and catabolic hormones, or markers of muscle hypertrophy (i.e. total protein content or MHC type I, IIa, and IIx protein content) and other intramuscular markers (i.e. FP and EP3 receptor density or MHC type I, IIa, and IIx mRNA expression).
Conclusion
AA supplementation during resistance-training may enhance anaerobic capacity and lessen the inflammatory response to training. However, AA supplementation did not promote statistically greater gains in strength, muscle mass, or influence markers of muscle hypertrophy.
 
Do you have a lab test proving your claims of shit quality?
Have you used both products to compare?

If you do not have the above I am unsure of how you can make such bold claims.

Here I will answer for him. Because he spent a shitload of money buying into 3 guys from Englands marketing that they are the only place on earth to buy Turkesterone from. How do you corner the market on your product? Tell everyone that they can only get legit stuff from you. Its the whole creatine monohydrate and beta alanine story all over again. All the studies were done on creatine monohydrate so everyone tries to corner the market with patents and tweaked versions of creatine monohydrate so they can create their own niche and make money. So remember 3 guys from England because they say so on their site are the only legit guys out there with Turkesterone. No one can even compare. Not even this place https://nektium.com/standardized-extract/ajuga-2-total-ecdysteroids/ And amazingly he is the only person on earth that can FEEL what 20-25% more protein assimilation feels like. Thats what turkesterone is good for...it will up protein utilization....

I tweaked Abolics formula already with what I felt was a better Quercetin phospholipid with studies showing a better absorption compared to Emiq (22% compared to 18% if i remember right) and to be honest I was/am considering replacing the Turkesterone with a full spectrum Rhaponticum Carthamoides Extract. Those are the lesser ingredients. Again Abolic is 95% about apigenin....its a flavonoid product. That is the key to it and what its about. Currently apigenin's availability has gotten sparce (and price has gone up dramatically). But that compound is the key to it.
 
The two that I have personal experience with that definitely do work are

1. creatine monohydrate is just fine don't overpay for unproven creatines. Creatine does not increase water that you hold under the skin it is mostly all in the muscle.

2. Injectable l carnitine has really surprised me. I highly recommend this product it brings out vascularity in me like nothing else, it is supposed to help with a lot of other things, fat loss aid androgen receptors and good for the vascular system.

I get spider web veins all throughout my tris and legs. I've posted pics on the pic of you today page. The last 2 pictures I posted I'm actually not l-car. So the results stayed around for a while. they recently started going down got back on it and now they're starting to pop back up again.
 
That study was partially funded by Molecular Nutrition:" Competing interests: This study was partially funded by Molecular Nutrition TM. Patent details to declare: product: 'X-Factor Advanced', patent number: #6.841.573." so should be taken with a grain of salt. My own experience with ARA is one of pain+inflammation+negligible results, so my recommendation would be to stay away if you have any kind of inflammatory condition like many of us here suffer, here is another study:



Results
Wingate relative peak power was significantly greater after 50 days of supplementation while the inflammatory cytokine IL-6 was significantly lower after 25 days of supplementation in the AA group. PGE2 levels tended to be greater in the AA group. However, no statistically significant differences were observed between groups in body composition, strength, anabolic and catabolic hormones, or markers of muscle hypertrophy (i.e. total protein content or MHC type I, IIa, and IIx protein content) and other intramuscular markers (i.e. FP and EP3 receptor density or MHC type I, IIa, and IIx mRNA expression).
Conclusion
AA supplementation during resistance-training may enhance anaerobic capacity and lessen the inflammatory response to training. However, AA supplementation did not promote statistically greater gains in strength, muscle mass, or influence markers of muscle hypertrophy.
This is valuable information. I was always turned off by the possible inflammation increase aspect.

How far away do you spread your omega 3's from the ARA? How many ARA gels do you take? 4?

I simply take 4 softgels 30-45 minutes or so preworkout. I am also empty stomach at this point. I will take my omega-3's(fish and krill) with my last couple meals.

That one study does not show an increase in muscle but did show performance improvement. I have to think an increase in performance should overtime translate into gains. All one can do it try it. I has many repeat customers of those that do not have inflammatory conditions. If one is not suffering from something like chrones or IBS it is worth a shot.
 
They checked for inflammation markers:

3. No/Reduced Inflammation.
Arachidonic acid is a substrate used by the body to make eicosanoids, which are involved in inflammation. This has lead to a popular misconception; ARA supplementation must promote inflammation. Numerous other studies have examined this, and come to similar conclusions. It doesn’t. Inflammation is a tightly regulated biological response, that is not simply initiated by consuming ARA. However, the misconception persists. Leaving almost no stone unturned, the Auckland study addresses this in extensive detail by looking for changes in a wide range of immune cell surface markers (ITGAM, ELANE, CEACAM8, CD68, CD163, CD206) and inflammatory cytokines (IL1B, IL6, CCL2, TNF), at both the systemic and local level. The result: there was no evidence of elevated inflammation with ARA supplementation in any marker tested, at either the systemic or tissue level. In fact, there was a modest reduction in blood monocyte counts, as well as PBMC mRNA expression of (ELANE) and CD66b (CEACAM8). As the researchers pointed out,


I have plenty of injuries and chronic pain and as long as I take x-gels preworkout only I have had zero systemic pain or joint issues. In the beginning, the developer, William Llewellyn, suggested no omega-3 intake while supplementing with ARA. I never abided by this and simply took them at different times of the day and the ARA only on workout days. I think the combination of significant strength gains(for a natural supplement) combined with daily dosing(as originally suggested to do) and the removal of all omega-3's and joint supplements(also originally suggested to do) is what caused some to initially report issues with joint pain.

1 whole egg has about 75mg of ARA, depending on size, and I believe this played a role in the success of high egg diets as prescribed by the likes of Vince Gironda and company. The combination of high-quality protein and an anabolic fatty acid was, and is, a pretty potent combination considering you can get them at the grocery store lol. ARA is also mandated by law to be in baby formula and that's when we make the best gains of our lives so it has to work right??? LOL

Interesting, thanks for that. I’ll have to dig more into it when I have time. It really is a great little supplement. It reminded me of a very MILD prohormone. I may just have to give it another go one of these days as an add on to trt.
 
The only OTC supp that is really worth your money is Glycerol imo. But the topic is about muscle building and with Glycerol there's only a temporary cosmetic effect, no muscle building. So I guess I'm going to say none.

(Not to say things like Creatine etc... don't do anything at all... It's just such a small effect I don't see it as worth my money but that's just my opinion)
 
Arachidonic acid purportedly whips-up ribosome biogenesis increasing RNA translational capacity.

They say it promotes hypertrophy. Give it a whirl.

I found it to be good after experimenting with it. I recall great pumps and muscle fullness. The post workout soreness was crazy. My memory is playing tricks on me because there is a reason I only used 1 tub out of the 2 I bought and I paid a lot for them. I think it's because it made my joints very sore as well. As I moved I think I gave the tub away to my mate but will check my suitcase as I left a few tubs of random things in there.

Adding to the muscle building list I would state creatine monohydrate. Now for improved appearance I would include inj l-carnitine (synthetine), syntheselen and citrulline.

DK0223 5% “bigger by the day” is just a laxogenin product which are all the rage now in the supplement industry. I wouldn't recommend them but sure for a natural who never wants to use aas then it wouldn't hurt. For you I would just go on trt and maybe bump up the dose a little for mini blasts.
 
I found it to be good after experimenting with it. I recall great pumps and muscle fullness. The post workout soreness was crazy. My memory is playing tricks on me because there is a reason I only used 1 tub out of the 2 I bought and I paid a lot for them. I think it's because it made my joints very sore as well. As I moved I think I gave the tub away to my mate but will check my suitcase as I left a few tubs of random things in there.

Adding to the muscle building list I would state creatine monohydrate. Now for improved appearance I would include inj l-carnitine (synthetine), syntheselen and citrulline.

DK0223 5% “bigger by the day” is just a laxogenin product which are all the rage now in the supplement industry. I wouldn't recommend them but sure for a natural who never wants to use aas then it wouldn't hurt. For you I would just go on trt and maybe bump up the dose a little for mini blasts.
Hey bro hope you are well. Yea right now I’m only on Hcg as per my Urologist’s orders for fertility reasons. Has my test 600+ so not too bad
 
Here I will answer for him. Because he spent a shitload of money buying into 3 guys from Englands marketing that they are the only place on earth to buy Turkesterone from. How do you corner the market on your product? Tell everyone that they can only get legit stuff from you. Its the whole creatine monohydrate and beta alanine story all over again. All the studies were done on creatine monohydrate so everyone tries to corner the market with patents and tweaked versions of creatine monohydrate so they can create their own niche and make money. So remember 3 guys from England because they say so on their site are the only legit guys out there with Turkesterone. No one can even compare. Not even this place https://nektium.com/standardized-extract/ajuga-2-total-ecdysteroids/ And amazingly he is the only person on earth that can FEEL what 20-25% more protein assimilation feels like. Thats what turkesterone is good for...it will up protein utilization....

I tweaked Abolics formula already with what I felt was a better Quercetin phospholipid with studies showing a better absorption compared to Emiq (22% compared to 18% if i remember right) and to be honest I was/am considering replacing the Turkesterone with a full spectrum Rhaponticum Carthamoides Extract. Those are the lesser ingredients. Again Abolic is 95% about apigenin....its a flavonoid product. That is the key to it and what its about. Currently apigenin's availability has gotten sparce (and price has gone up dramatically). But that compound is the key to it.
I'm not interested in their marketing tactics, I'm only interested in getting my money's worth out of the product. I do. Case closed. A-bolic4? not so much, not for $60 a bottle

Just accept it and move on Dante, it's not going to make or break you that some dude on the internet talked shit about one of your products.
 
I'm not interested in their marketing tactics, I'm only interested in getting my money's worth out of the product. I do. Case closed. A-bolic4? not so much, not for $60 a bottle

Just accept it and move on Dante, it's not going to make or break you that some dude on the internet talked shit about one of your products.
I just question your strange attitude issues as of this year. I relate your name to a decent contributing member that at least has had interesting posts in the past. At least that's what my initial thoughts were until you started getting snarky in a thread a few months back that you made - citing that someone had deleted the thread where Dante dropped a ton of knowledge on the make-up of Abolic. You were searching for info and you even ended up posting that you bought another bottle. Interesting. I guess buyer's remorse is a real thing but I am uncertain what you were hoping to gain? 10lbs of LBM?

Oh and then there was that thread about liver tablets and full spectrum di and tri peptides amino acid products being superior. I simply made a post inferring that it was somewhat empty to say something like that and not give an example and you quoted and replied like a real prick. You were nice enough to send me a PM specifying the product. You've got a real funny way about you with throwing shades of disrespect whether you realize it or not. As I was looking back through your post history, you mention Dante several times and seem to do so with respect and they usually involve some sort of inquiry which is cool since you want to learn.

I just don't know why your seemingly previous respectful manners and my recollection of you being a decently good read when you post has now turned into you being some kind of way towards people who aren't giving you shit. Before you say you don't care or I should go fuck myself- perception is reality and you are certainly changing the way people have perceived you.
 
I'm not interested in their marketing tactics, I'm only interested in getting my money's worth out of the product. I do. Case closed. A-bolic4? not so much, not for $60 a bottle

Just accept it and move on Dante, it's not going to make or break you that some dude on the internet talked shit about one of your products.

At a 500mg / day dose you would have to buy three tubs (or a tub with 180 capsules) of the Tonvara and that would cost $80 so not cheap either (I know you will say it´s better quality and has a higher concentration, which is yet to be proven, whereas Nektium, the company Dante mentioned is legit and sells quality products).

The Tonvara Tribulus Alatus product seems interesting, I can´t find much info but might give it a shot since my libido is zapped from using Dutasteride and it seems more cost effective than the Sopharma tribulus which seems to be the only legit one out there, at this point I´ll try anything to get my mojo back.
 

Staff online

  • Big A
    IFBB PRO/NPC JUDGE/Administrator

Forum statistics

Total page views
559,597,969
Threads
136,127
Messages
2,780,353
Members
160,446
Latest member
ctrcivic
NapsGear
HGH Power Store email banner
your-raws
Prowrist straps store banner
infinity
FLASHING-BOTTOM-BANNER-210x131
raws
Savage Labs Store email
Syntherol Site Enhancing Oil Synthol
aqpharma
YMSApril210131
hulabs
ezgif-com-resize-2-1
MA Research Chem store banner
MA Supps Store Banner
volartek
Keytech banner
musclechem
Godbullraw-bottom-banner
Injection Instructions for beginners
Knight Labs store email banner
3
ashp131
YMS-210x131-V02
Back
Top