Any non-PED go-to's for the best fat-to-muscle gain ratio during a bulk?

[marssel]

Ok, then yes carnitine is very much worthwhile.

just gonna kitchen sink ya

dihydroberberine
r- ala, ala
cinnulin pf
tudca
synthelamin
ohhira’s probiotics
citrus bergamot
teacrine

Agreed but understand there is NOTHING “natty” that will ever put you even close to even a tiny dose of say just test. Trade all your natty supps for just a basic ped and you’re 20lbs heavier. It took me 3 years to get on stuff I actually intended to never ever but when you are this committed and for me, working harder than all the guys I saw who were on and still noticeably smaller I got on and for me the best thing I ever did. Not bashing you just keeping perspective.

 

[pickapeck]

Agreed but understand there is NOTHING “natty” that will ever put you even close to even a tiny dose of say just test. Trade all your natty supps for just a basic ped and you’re 20lbs heavier. It took me 3 years to get on stuff I actually intended to never ever but when you are this committed and for me, working harder than all the guys I saw who were on and still noticeably smaller I got on and for me the best thing I ever did. Not bashing you just keeping perspective.

That's a good point. Some would rather hold up a flag of superior virtue. I was natural to age 27. Then first cycle of about 300 mg/w total AAS I put on 25 lbs. Pretty much doubled my overall natty gains almost. Lost 1/2 of it after 6 month off but still, shit works. Even after going off for 10 years I still held 25 lbs of AAS added mass.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

Agreed but understand there is NOTHING “natty” that will ever put you even close to even a tiny dose of say just test. Trade all your natty supps for just a basic ped and you’re 20lbs heavier. It took me 3 years to get on stuff I actually intended to never ever but when you are this committed and for me, working harder than all the guys I saw who were on and still noticeably smaller I got on and for me the best thing I ever did. Not bashing you just keeping perspective.

Uh what you tellin me for? Preaching to the choir. Those supplements were what the guy who started the thread asked for, he’s natural. Not my business to tell him what to do, i just answered his question

 

[AllOkJumpmaster]

That's a good point. Some would rather hold up a flag of superior virtue. I was natural to age 27. Then first cycle of about 300 mg/w total AAS I put on 25 lbs. Pretty much doubled my overall natty gains almost. Lost 1/2 of it after 6 month off but still, shit works. Even after going off for 10 years I still held 25 lbs of AAS added mass.

did you come off entirely or to TRT?

I know I will be on TRT one day and probably soon. I am 40. That said I have always wondered if it would "beneficial" to runa few higher doses of test to out on a little extra, and them maintain a bit more when dropping down to TRT, rather than just go on the TRT dose indef would yield me. Keep in mind I am 40 so I realize not a ton of mass probably will be built even on 300-500? I really don't know. I also have been competing as a natural for over a decade so I am as at my genetic ceiling as I am going get. Everything in my training and diet life is pretty much wire tight though, so if there was any gains ont he table to be had, I could probably enjoy them?

 

[pickapeck]

did you come off entirely or to TRT?

I know I will be on TRT one day and probably soon. I am 40. That said I have always wondered if it would "beneficial" to runa few higher doses of test to out on a little extra, and them maintain a bit more when dropping down to TRT, rather than just go on the TRT dose indef would yield me. Keep in mind I am 40 so I realize not a ton of mass probably will be built even on 300-500? I really don't know. I also have been competing as a natural for over a decade so I am as at my genetic ceiling as I am going get. Everything in my training and diet life is pretty much wire tight though, so if there was any gains ont he table to be had, I could probably enjoy them?

off

 

[Elvia1023]

Synthetine
Syntheselen
Creatine

The term "natural" can mean different things. For most it's a moral thing so basically anything considered a drug but the same could be said about that term as well. I have known naturals to take (abuse) prohormones because they were "legal". Some guys simply don't want to inject anything and will take orals. Some guys don't want to take anything that will effect their sex hormones. For many people it's about testing. My point being if you just don't want to fuck up your health and you aren't competing in a tested organization I could see the likes of intelligent insulin usage being very beneficial. That combined with the above and some intra aminos and carbs could be great. Even a low dose of MK-677 could be very useful especially when combined with a great diet and some GDA's. Most will think these are not suitable but injecting MT2 and BP-500 isn't natural so just trying to give some ideas because these will actually make a big difference without causing any health issues as long as doses are low and they are cycled.

 

[marssel]

That's a good point. Some would rather hold up a flag of superior virtue. I was natural to age 27. Then first cycle of about 300 mg/w total AAS I put on 25 lbs. Pretty much doubled my overall natty gains almost. Lost 1/2 of it after 6 month off but still, shit works. Even after going off for 10 years I still held 25 lbs of AAS added mass.

Yea I did about 4 years of fertility and my test was 0 for 2 years then hovered around 17 from there and I was still one of the biggest dudes anywhere I went and now over 40 same thing now this is true at shows and hardcore gyms so some of it is genetic but before gear I was built like a boxer even doing my first three years training like a beast and winning and placing in my class I was stuck as a lightweight soon as I got on I was having to make MW and I’m now a SHW i probably woukdve made a decent MW without gear but there’s nothing like always improving always overcoming an obstacle or saybmild injury. That just doesn’t happen if your natty and guys that get on trt from a doc aren’t natty having the test level of an 18 year old at 30 is being on steroids PERIOD

 

[SouthernMuscle]

Yea I did about 4 years of fertility and my test was 0 for 2 years then hovered around 17 from there and I was still one of the biggest dudes anywhere I went and now over 40 same thing now this is true at shows and hardcore gyms so some of it is genetic but before gear I was built like a boxer even doing my first three years training like a beast and winning and placing in my class I was stuck as a lightweight soon as I got on I was having to make MW and I’m now a SHW i probably woukdve made a decent MW without gear but there’s nothing like always improving always overcoming an obstacle or saybmild injury. That just doesn’t happen if your natty and guys that get on trt from a doc aren’t natty having the test level of an 18 year old at 30 is being on steroids PERIOD

are you using “talk to text”

 

[Sully1234]

Personally I wouldnt but I have heard Dante's products A-Bolic and T-sterone got pretty good reviews. Nothing like AAS though

The LAB®

The LAB is where True Nutrition Co-Founder, Dante Trudel designs truly cutting edge supplements made from naturally occurring, food-based compounds that are backed by science to support anabolic growth, hormonal support, and joint protection.

truenutrition.com

 

[alfresco]

Syntheselen and synthetine combo as far as i am aware , creatine , cissus seems to have slightly anabolic properties. Also on a lot of boards arachidonic acid have great review. I remember from my natural days that animal series was great. Currently gelcaps from sns has great feedback. But then I have to brutally honest from my experience if you are max out as natural you are maxed out and no amount of money spent will do you any good. I started BB when I was 18 , my first cycle was when I was over 30 years old so i have some experience…

 

[bbxtreme]

did you come off entirely or to TRT?

I know I will be on TRT one day and probably soon. I am 40. That said I have always wondered if it would "beneficial" to runa few higher doses of test to out on a little extra, and them maintain a bit more when dropping down to TRT, rather than just go on the TRT dose indef would yield me. Keep in mind I am 40 so I realize not a ton of mass probably will be built even on 300-500? I really don't know. I also have been competing as a natural for over a decade so I am as at my genetic ceiling as I am going get. Everything in my training and diet life is pretty much wire tight though, so if there was any gains ont he table to be had, I could probably enjoy them?

Hats off on being a lifetime natty. I would go off your bloodwork on testosterone. If your numbers are in range being a lifetime natural then I would not do TRT until you have to.

Things you could consider: EAA’s and carbs during workouts, glutamine, creatine, injectable carnitine, and tongkat ali.

Layne Norton would tell you all supplements but creatine and whey protein were a waste of money.

 

[Elvia1023]

They get a bad rap but some "test boosters" can be decent but sure their marketing it's complete and utter bullshit at times. Obviously when compared to steroids it's ridiculous (they are pointless) but if someone wants to remain "natural" they can make a difference. I personally think it's all a joke in many ways because guys will fill themselves full of 20 supplements promising muscle gains and because they are "legal" and "natural" they are fine. I did try many for multiple years before AAS and some are decent. I am talking about things like tongkat ali, tribulus terrestris and pfaffia paniculata (suma root). If you combine them all together you should feel/see the difference.

 

[totalrecomp]

It doesn't have to be a big effect, I'd take anything I can get, even just 100 grams of new quality muscle Lol and I'd pay well for it too. But still the product is comparatively expensive when you don't know if it will do anything for sure. I think if someone invested in bringing some raws to market the price might come down dramatically.

Cargill owns the rights to the raws: the 10% powder and the 40% oil. All brands have to buy from them and any brand that tries to do an end around getting it made off books in china is not going to last very long vs Cargill's legal team. If you look around the SNS can be had for about $35.00 which is enough for 16.6666 workouts at 6/sg/wrkt. So depending on how often you train, say 4 times/wk, you have about a month supply. You only take it on training days so it works out to a little over a buck/day, not really bad considering protein costs more than $1.00/scoop for most quality brands these days.

 

[marssel]

Hats off on being a lifetime natty. I would go off your bloodwork on testosterone. If your numbers are in range being a lifetime natural then I would not do TRT until you have to.

Things you could consider: EAA’s and carbs during workouts, glutamine, creatine, injectable carnitine, and tongkat ali.

Layne Norton would tell you all supplements but creatine and whey protein were a waste of money.

Leucine is multi tablespoon doses daily is pretty magic

 

[AllOkJumpmaster]

An amazing diet and exercise plan that you stick to 100%?

The answer you seek is called proper nutrition.

Brothers, I am militant in my diet. Just looking for anything else that could give a few % advantage. that said, I know that some guys have raved about being able to stay a bit leaner by using the injectable L-Car. That said, I only have ever used anything that is a sub-Q injection. I am not afraid of doing IM injections, just uncertain about it because I have never done it.