Any other asthmatics?

[maldorf]

This is albuterol:
**broken link removed**







This is Xopenex (levabuterol):

If you pay attention all they have done is cleave off the amine and three methyl groups and they got levabuterol. Smarter guys than me figured out that it was that tail that was causing all the b-adregernic side effects. Without it you only get the smooth muscle relaxation of the bronchioles. Basically unless someone does not have insurance, there is no reason that you should not use xopenex over albuterol. Same efficacy without any of the jittery or cardiac effects is always win win. Now, if someone cant afford due to insurance then albuterol always works.

they name it with the prefix leva because it rotates light to the left, is that right? As opposed to dex? Im foggy on that because its been so long since I studied it.

 

[alpha6164]

they name it with the prefix leva because it rotates light to the left, is that right? As opposed to dex? Im foggy on that because its been so long since I studied it.

Bingo

 

[maldorf]

Guys, let me clear ONE THING UP..

The PHARM industry controls EVERYTHING, so when you hear assertions like "if you need to use an alubuterol inhaler more than twice per day than your asthma is not CONTROLLED", this is BULLSHIT. I would rather NOT have my asthma "under control" than to be mineral depleted constantly and suffer possible FATAL consequences from a dangerous corticosteroid like Advair..

Again, there is really no medical need to "control" your asthma artifically, albuterol has a LOCAL EFFECT and most of it is not systemic and dosages are miniscule. My asthma IS UNDER CONTROL and without the serious risk of dangerous side-effects.

There is absolutely LESS HARM from using albuterol a few times per week than to be DRUGGED UP on asthma medications YEAR ROUND FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. It's just a big SCAM to keep you on drugs for the rest of your life..

That is my feeling when it comes to using the cortico steroids. I never minded using my albuterol maybe once a day and I never once had any side effects from it. I did always use the albuterol though with another drug that was meant to keep it under control and I think that is best. If I were you I would use Singulair if you are having to use the inhailer too much. Singulair is relatively safe as far as I know and was a life changer for me.

Now if I were taking singulair and having to use my inhailer like every 6 hours day after day then I would resort to using a corticosteroid. When I get sick bad sometimes Ill have to go on prednisone. I had to have my daughter go on that recently, she inherited this shit from me.

I used to use the old brand name Theodur, theophylline, in the old days. that stuff did have sides. I had to take 300mg every 6 hours too, it was a huge dose but my theorphylline levels always came back in line. The docs coudlnt understand why I needed so much. I was bodybuilding back then and maybe it was my high metabolism?

 

[alpha6164]

Guys, let me clear ONE THING UP..

The PHARM industry controls EVERYTHING, so when you hear assertions like "if you need to use an alubuterol inhaler more than twice per day than your asthma is not CONTROLLED", this is BULLSHIT. I would rather NOT have my asthma "under control" than to be mineral depleted constantly and suffer possible FATAL consequences from a dangerous corticosteroid like Advair..

Again, there is really no medical need to "control" your asthma artifically, albuterol has a LOCAL EFFECT and most of it is not systemic and dosages are miniscule. My asthma IS UNDER CONTROL and without the serious risk of dangerous side-effects.

There is absolutely LESS HARM from using albuterol a few times per week than to be DRUGGED UP on asthma medications YEAR ROUND FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. It's just a big SCAM to keep you on drugs for the rest of your life..

Ok, i kind of gave you an easy out and was easy on you. So taking albuterol 3x a day for the rest of your life is not "being drugged up for the rest of your life?" You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about man. Let me get my tinfoil hat since Pharma companies control EVERYTHING. There literally thousands of research that is done regarding thing by major university systems across the world that are no where close to being pharm funded that all prove the same thing. It is laughable that you are telling me that taking aluberol 3x daily for the rest of your life somehow is SAFE and your asthma is under control when you dont even understand the basic concept of what is asthma. Do pharm companies have influences here and there? yes. But if that was the case we would not be pulling drugs off the market or denying FDA approvals left and right. Do you know for every 20 drugs that go in front of the FDA only one gets approved all the way to the end? If pharma CONTROLLED EVERYTHING, would not all those shitty drugs get passed the first time? Trust me you may argue about Primobolan etc, but you cant argue medicine with me.

What you are essentially saying is like if i told you "i am adding three quarts of oil to my engine every single day cause it is that low every morning, and i insist that just adding the oil daily is fine and nothing can be wrong and there is no underlying issue and that my engine health is under control" lol. Also, to correct you inhaled corticosteroids are not absorbed by the system and do not have the effects of oral corticosteroids. People dont puff up, and there is not even an increase in your serum cortisol levels. So dont confuse inhaled vs oral.

 

[BigNShredded]

Ok, i kind of gave you an easy out and was easy on you. So taking albuterol 3x a day for the rest of your life is not "being drugged up for the rest of your life?" You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about man. Let me get my tinfoil hat since Pharma companies control EVERYTHING. There literally thousands of research that is done regarding thing by major university systems across the world that are no where close to being pharm funded that all prove the same thing. It is laughable that you are telling me that taking aluberol 3x daily for the rest of your life somehow is SAFE and your asthma is under control when you dont even understand the basic concept of what is asthma. Do pharm companies have influences here and there? yes. But if that was the case we would not be pulling drugs off the market or denying FDA approvals left and right. Do you know for every 20 drugs that go in front of the FDA only one gets approved all the way to the end? If pharma CONTROLLED EVERYTHING, would not all those shitty drugs get passed the first time? Trust me you may argue about Primobolan etc, but you cant argue medicine with me.

What you are essentially saying is like if i told you "i am adding three quarts of oil to my engine every single day cause it is that low every morning, and i insist that just adding the oil daily is fine and nothing can be wrong and there is no underlying issue and that my engine health is under control" lol. Also, to correct you inhaled corticosteroids are not absorbed by the system and do not have the effects of oral corticosteroids. People dont puff up, and there is not even an increase in your serum cortisol levels. So dont confuse inhaled vs oral.

Let's examine both, the SHORT AND LONG-TERM side-effects of ALBUTEROL and also ADVAIR...

One person uses Albuterol as needed--let's say an average of ONCE per day(some days not at all, some days up to 3). This person stays on Albuterol for 30 years(which I almost have).

PERSON #2 uses Advair everyday, in conjunction with a PILL in order to "control asthma". This person consumes these TWO DRUGS every day for 30 years...

WHO IS HEALTHIER? WHO HAS LESS OF A RISK OF A LIFE-THREATENING EVENT? The answer is PERSON #1 using just Albuterol as needed.

Albuterol is a very safe drug. EVEN IF I used it 2-3 times per day for the rest of my life, I would still be better off than using Advair and other drugs that DO NOT HAVE A LONG HISTORY OF MEDICAL USE. THESE ARE NEW DRUGS.

Good discussion, I know you're only trying to keep us safe.


"Advair

LABAs, such as salmeterol, one of the active ingredients in Advair HFA, increase the risk of asthma-related death. Data from a large placebo-controlled US study that compared the safety of salmeterol (SEREVENT Inhalation Aerosol) or placebo added to usual asthma therapy showed an increase in asthma-related deaths in patients receiving salmeterol. Currently available data are inadequate to determine whether concurrent use of inhaled corticosteroids or other long-term asthma control drugs mitigates the increased risk of asthma-related death from LABAs. Available data from controlled clinical trials suggest that LABAs increase the risk of asthma-related hospitalization in pediatric and adolescent patients.

The incidence of common adverse events in Table 4 is based upon 2 placebo-controlled, 12-week, US clinical studies (Studies 1 and 3) and 1 active-controlled, 12-week, US clinical study (Study 2). A total of 1,008 adolescent and adult patients with asthma (556 females and 452 males) previously treated with albuterol alone, salmeterol, or inhaled corticosteroids were treated twice daily with 2 inhalations of Advair HFA 45/21 or Advair HFA 115/21, fluticasone propionate CFC inhalation aerosol (44- or 110-mcg doses), salmeterol CFC inhalation aerosol 21 mcg, or placebo HFA inhalation aerosol.

 

[alpha6164]

Let's examine both, the SHORT AND LONG-TERM side-effects of ALBUTEROL and also ADVAIR...

One person uses Albuterol as needed--let's say an average of ONCE per day(some days not at all, some days up to 3). This person stays on Albuterol for 30 years(which I almost have).

PERSON #2 uses Advair everyday, in conjunction with a PILL in order to "control asthma". This person consumes these TWO DRUGS every day for 30 years...

WHO IS HEALTHIER? WHO HAS LESS OF A RISK OF A LIFE-THREATENING EVENT? The answer is PERSON #1 using just Albuterol as needed.

Albuterol is a very safe drug. EVEN IF I used it 2-3 times per day for the rest of my life, I would still be better off than using Advair and other drugs that DO NOT HAVE A LONG HISTORY OF MEDICAL USE. THESE ARE NEW DRUGS.

Good discussion, I know you're only trying to keep us safe.


"Advair

LABAs, such as salmeterol, one of the active ingredients in Advair HFA, increase the risk of asthma-related death. Data from a large placebo-controlled US study that compared the safety of salmeterol (SEREVENT Inhalation Aerosol) or placebo added to usual asthma therapy showed an increase in asthma-related deaths in patients receiving salmeterol. Currently available data are inadequate to determine whether concurrent use of inhaled corticosteroids or other long-term asthma control drugs mitigates the increased risk of asthma-related death from LABAs. Available data from controlled clinical trials suggest that LABAs increase the risk of asthma-related hospitalization in pediatric and adolescent patients.

The incidence of common adverse events in Table 4 is based upon 2 placebo-controlled, 12-week, US clinical studies (Studies 1 and 3) and 1 active-controlled, 12-week, US clinical study (Study 2). A total of 1,008 adolescent and adult patients with asthma (556 females and 452 males) previously treated with albuterol alone, salmeterol, or inhaled corticosteroids were treated twice daily with 2 inhalations of Advair HFA 45/21 or Advair HFA 115/21, fluticasone propionate CFC inhalation aerosol (44- or 110-mcg doses), salmeterol CFC inhalation aerosol 21 mcg, or placebo HFA inhalation aerosol.

This shows you that you did not even read my initial post. I was very clear that i am not a fan of Advair because it has the long acting beta adrenergic drug (salmeterol) and how i like an inhaled steroid by itself. And no, you can not make an assumption of who is healthier based on a number of drugs they take. If you are unhealthy (requiring to use albuterol daily ie your inflammation is not under control) vs using two drugs and having no inflammation then your one drug regimen is useless. Lets say a diabetic is using one drug and their sugar is out of whack, and another diabetic is using two drugs but their sugar is under control. Who is healthier? See. We dont decide who is healthier based on number of drugs they use. We decide based on end results to get to normal. And not ever in the history of niggerdom (Katt Williams lol) is anybody going to agree with you that requiring to use albuterol daily is considered healthy. Period.

 

[Tom]

NOt sure why they put you on Xopenex instead of just plain Albuterol. Do you have heart issues? The Xopenex is supposed to be more selective to the type of beta cells found in the lungs so that it doesnt affect the heart as much. If I remember right it costs a lot more and I think the shelf life is much much shorter. I wouldnt use it unless youre having issues with albuterol. there must be a reason why they put you on it. Cant remeber if its Beta 1 or Beta 2s that are in the lung.

thought I would add that im still on albuterol even after my heart attack and im fine. thats me though.

Xopenex comes in 2 strengths .63 and 1.25 mg. The 1.25 can have similar cardiac effects as albuterol and the .63 is the preferred dose. Albuterol is not the villian some portyay it to be and is used 4-6 times daily for years by COPD pateints with no ill effects. Only a small percentage of patients experience the albuterol jitters and it subsides quickly. I would trade off the jitters for airway relief any day of the week. The ER protocol we use for a serious asthma exacerbation is a one hour continuous albuterol treatment and IV steroids. The albuterol is then continued every 3 hours for 24 hours. I haven't seen any serious cardiac issues in over 23 years. Often an inhaled steroid(Pulmicort) is added and continued as a maintainence drug to keep inflammation in check. Anyone using an inhaled steroid is advised to rinse your mouth thoroughly right after the dose to prevent a thrush (fungal) infection that can occur in about 5% of pateints.

 

[Performance Based]

see its a double edged sword...

One way or another I need something that will work, I do not have the luxury of taking puffers at my leisure in my line of work. Im fine with daily use of an emergency puffer but I do need to add something to my regiment. Perhaps I will try the singulair and drop the advair all together if I respond well to it or just use the advair in conjunction on work/field training days.

I understand your argument Ross I will completely admit.

And Alpha your posts have been extremely helpful!

 

[Tom]

they name it with the prefix leva because it rotates light to the left, is that right? As opposed to dex? Im foggy on that because its been so long since I studied it.

Here's a good one for you.....due to the price of xopenex when a physician writes an order for an in-patient to be on xopenex the pharmacy in my hospital just auto-substitutes albuterol!!

 

[maldorf]

Here's a good one for you.....due to the price of xopenex when a physician writes an order for an in-patient to be on xopenex the pharmacy in my hospital just auto-substitutes albuterol!!

wow, damn! I guess they can legally do that as long as the doc doesnt write it out "dispense as written"? It is a different compound though. I hope the hospital doesnt charge them like its xopenex! IMO the dangers of albuterol when used as directed are very small. like I said, Ive had a heart attack and my docs have no problems with me using it.

 

[Tom]

wow, damn! I guess they can legally do that as long as the doc doesnt write it out "dispense as written"? It is a different compound though. I hope the hospital doesnt charge them like its xopenex! IMO the dangers of albuterol when used as directed are very small. like I said, Ive had a heart attack and my docs have no problems with me using it.

D.A.W. is ignored unless written by a pulmonologist. So only a pulmonologist can order xopenex. Not sure about the legality but if a primary wants xopenex they just order a pulmonary consult!!! Anybody want to guess why health care is through the roof? Just one example of the stupidity in the system.

 

[maldorf]

D.A.W. is ignored unless written by a pulmonologist. So only a pulmonologist can order xopenex. Not sure about the legality but if a primary wants xopenex they just order a pulmonary consult!!! Anybody want to guess why health care is through the roof? Just one example of the stupidity in the system.

Crazy, simply crazy. I didnt think it was legal for anyone to ignore a D.A.W. To me if something were to go wrong with the patient, because the hospital dispensed a medicine other than perscribed, the hospital would be legally liable for malpractice. From what we have seen from the chemical formula, Xopenx is not the same substance as albuterol so it is not merely a brand name for a generic but a different chemical altogether albiet it has similar affects.

I am totally with you though on Albuterol being a lot safer than its made out to be when its used as prescribed. If someone has problems though like the OP then it does makes sense to use the Xopenex.

 

[maldorf]

Crazy shit that happend to me in ICU. Drug mixup scared the shit out of me

When I was in ICU following my heart attack they had me on dopamine to raise my blood pressure. my heart was so weak that my blood pressure was dangerously low. I remember looking over and seeing it was like 50/40 or something like that, so that means my pulse pressure was just 10 mm hg!

Anyways, they also had me on Heparin to dissolve what was left of my clot and make sure no more formed.

Well my heart eventually after about 4 days got strong enough that they were able to wean me off of the dopamine.

One day the nurse screwed up and he hung a bag of dopamine instead of my heparin. So for some time I was hooked up to the wrong drug. Not only was it the wrong drug, but the dopamine was dosed like it was the heparin!!!!

My blood pressure spiked to a crazy level, like 170/100 or something in that neigborhood. Previously it had been like 90/60 or so. Dopamine causes vasoconstriction I guess so it raises the BP. I dont know how it works.

I rang the nurse and he blamed the bp spike on the fact that I had been up walking for the first time and just had a meal. I knew something was terribly wrong but I would have never guessed it was the wrong med. the bags look identical in appearance. I thought something really bad was wrong with my heart. Later on another nurse came in and noticed somehow that he had the wrong bag on my drip, thank god.

the original nurse came in and changed it back to heparin. The hospital talked like they wanted me to sign some papers but I refused, i think they wanted me to sign over my rights or something who knows. I asked another nurse how much my dose was off because I realized that he had it dose like it was heparin and not dopamine. SHe told me it was about 10-20x what it should have been!

Luckily I was ok and no long term damage that I can speak of. After about 1 hour or 2 my bp was back down again. So a lesson for all nurses out there, follow protocols you have. He later told me what he had done. He had been placing my bags on a counter in my room and he forgot to remove my dopamine when I went off of it I guess. I think both bags were lying there or something and he grabbed the wrong one. I had been off dopamine for about 1 day. Since he put me back on the dopamine they had to keep me on it for another 24 hrs because they were afraid I would crash if they took it from me too fast. they have to wean you off slowly.

 

[Tom]

this is the very reason i would like to see the end of those 12-13 hour shifts health care workers love so much. studies show most med errors happen late into the long shifts that nurse's work. time to get back to 8 hour shifts and put the patients well being above the 3 day work week in health care.

 

[tmuscle]

luckily i outgrew my asthma as a young man

quite honestly i dont believe that being reliant on these drugs are good for your health in the long term. i'm not a doctor but i don't think it takes a doctor to realize that.


i feel for you guys who still have asthma attacks.


i would start by finding the source of the asthma. a lot of times for me it was triggered by something. in all honesty i feel that all inhalers do is cover up a chronic problem, and they should only be used when in life threatening situations.

but that is just my humble opinion

 

[aphextwin]

I've been taking Singulair for the last couple of months. I guess it helps some what....good to see it works for some of you guys. One thing I hate about Albuterol is the shakes. There nothing compared to clen, but they are noticeable after two puffs.

 

[aphextwin]

Here's a good one for you.....due to the price of xopenex when a physician writes an order for an in-patient to be on xopenex the pharmacy in my hospital just auto-substitutes albuterol!!

I have never heard on xopenex.....gonna look into it. I highly recommend Xolair shots if you have great insurance bc it's very expensive, but I hardly ever had to use my inhalers while I was taking Xolair shots once a month.

 

[maldorf]

I've been taking Singulair for the last couple of months. I guess it helps some what....good to see it works for some of you guys. One thing I hate about Albuterol is the shakes. There nothing compared to clen, but they are noticeable after two puffs.

Well we are all different I guess because I never once got the shakes and ive been using it since it came out, late 70s maybe? I could use 4 or 5 puffs if I was really sick and not get the shakes at all, and follow up again 4 hours later with more.

 

[Ehren]

One word, SINGULAIR. Its a brand name with no generic yet so its costly but well worth every single penny.

Singulair is awesome. Also noticed that it prevents Tren cough if that's a consideration for someone...just sayin

But costly...damn right. My insurance stopped covering it this year and now it's 75 bucks for one package of 30 pills...friggin bummer.

And something to AVOID: Salbutamol, and in Europe something called Fomoterol I think. That shit combination gave me the 2nd asthma attack of my life. The first was the one that originally got me diagnosed with asthma. I don't know what's in it, but whoever thought that it would STOP asthma was on crack. I have no idea how that dangerous shit got approved for human use.

Singulair and Albuterol for me. And I only use singulair when I must because of the nasty cost.

 

[maldorf]

Singulair is awesome. Also noticed that it prevents Tren cough if that's a consideration for someone...just sayin

But costly...damn right. My insurance stopped covering it this year and now it's 75 bucks for one package of 30 pills...friggin bummer.

And something to AVOID: Salbutamol, and in Europe something called Fomoterol I think. That shit combination gave me the 2nd asthma attack of my life. The first was the one that originally got me diagnosed with asthma. I don't know what's in it, but whoever thought that it would STOP asthma was on crack. I have no idea how that dangerous shit got approved for human use.

Singulair and Albuterol for me. And I only use singulair when I must because of the nasty cost.

Wow, my daughter had the same reaction to that crappy Salbutamol. I thought I was going to have to call 911.