Anybody stay on low/moderate doses year round?

[invain]

I've been on for probably 8 months straight now and I pretty much plan on staying on year round for the next 5 - 10 years, until I'm ready to give up powerlifting. I'm curious how much success guys have running moderate doses for really long periods of time.

Right now I'm on: 400 test, 400 eq, 200 deca a week. I'm loving it so far. Strength gains continue to climb and I'm not putting on a ton of weight, which is what I want since I compete in the mid-range weight classes. What I'm wondering, is how long doses like that would be effective? I'd assume you would be able to make strength gains almost indefinitely. Sure you get to the point where you're not putting much mass on, but the drugs are still helping with recovery, which improves performance.

I've heard some Elite/Pro level powerlifters claim they don't use much more than HRT level doses. Some will run something like 200 mg test and then add in orals as they get closer to meets.

The longer I've been lifting and using anabolics, the more I can see that drugs are overrated to a certain extent. You can always make gains, even off low doses, as long as you put the work in. I've gone as high as 1 gram of test, and honestly didn't notice much of a difference compared to 500 mg.

What are your guys' thoughts on this?

I have good friends that are on easily twice the amount of gear I'm on, yet I still out-total them Raw, while also being 1 - 2 weight classes lower. They're always egging me on to up my doses, but obviously what I'm doing is working, so why bother?

 

[bigal2]

also interested in some responses to this...

 

[invain]

Talked to a friend today that trains lots of athletes. He agrees that less is better. I decided to drop the test and eq down to 300 each, so I'll be running 800 mg of gear total. I might update this thread in a few months if I remember. As long as I continue to make strength gains I'll be hapy.

 

[audix2359]

In the Dr. G thread he says to keep it at 200mg total weekly or less. I tend to agree with that. 800mg per week is a lot of gear and I think it would be harmful to your body to do that long term like you are suggesting. That's my opinion but it's your body and your life. You'll be damn strong I'm sure.

 

[bigal2]

just noticed you're running EQ and deca together. I've been away from the game for a while, but I didn't think these two were usually stacked together?

Just curious not bashing or anything like that.

Thanks

 

[invain]

just noticed you're running EQ and deca together. I've been away from the game for a while, but I didn't think these two were usually stacked together?

Just curious not bashing or anything like that.

Thanks

Why not? I've heard of it before. I'm really only using the Deca for the joint support, hence the low dose.

 

[bigal2]

Why not? I've heard of it before. I'm really only using the Deca for the joint support, hence the low dose.

Guess I've just never thought about it. But it does make sense for the joint support.

 

[jdoisjohnny]

In the Dr. G thread he says to keep it at 200mg total weekly or less. I tend to agree with that. 800mg per week is a lot of gear and I think it would be harmful to your body to do that long term like you are suggesting. That's my opinion but it's your body and your life. You'll be damn strong I'm sure.

I didn't know that people stayed that low i've been keeping it at 500 test e steady for a few months now. Is 200 worth it? Is 200 really that much more than our baseline test? And if I wanted to drop down to 200 does anyone know how I would do it should I taper it down after a few weeks or just drop it down on the next pin?

 

[cardealer]

A lot blast and cruise and never come off.

 

[jdoisjohnny]

im curious what more people have to say. and how long do they blast for?? and stay off for

 

[HammerT1]

TRT doses are usually between 100-200 a week. 200 puts me in the 1000 plus range. Watching hemocrit is a big thing on TRT as the outside source of T increases hemocrit. I got lazy and within a few weeks while still within range but towards the high side my liver values also went up since I didn't keep up on donating blood in a timely manner.
I've read a lot of guys who say they cruise at 300 year round and at times have another compound added in low dose also during the cruise until they hit a blast where they increase doses. Some I know do it or TRT and others are just doing it because they love being on. I don't know what the ratios are as to whose just upping their TRT doses (self medicated or prescribed) versus those who are doing it because they don't want to come off. Blasts are usally shorter then standrd cycles too.

 

[monopoly]

I run test year round, about 4 years straight now. 200mg/wk. Will run 1 or 2 cycles per year depending on goals/competitions.

My blood work has always been fine, and I feel so much better on that "off".

Too me, 400/500 a week and various compounds is not "off", HRT or cruising, you are still "on". Nothing wrong with that, just don't try to talk yourself into anything else.

 

[jdoisjohnny]

So I get what is healthy, but I'm also curious what powerlifters, strongmen, and powerlifters at the top of their sport do. I've assumed that most of them keep their dosages pretty high year round. I've read about PLs staying on like 400-500 test and then "blasting" with orals and other things around competition. Now I don't know how true it is. Can anyone shed some light i'm just curious? Also does being on 200 feel like you're off for the people that have cruised at 200?

 

[ManoftheWorld]

hrt like doses are the best way to go for year around health... doing orals or blast of fast esters at a certain point like 6-8 weeks out from a meet is plenty of time for your body to make great gains with minimal added stress on ur body unless ur trying to do a meet every few months then like proBBs ur gonna just have to stay on high doses all the time to maintain your specific level of conditioning...

various combos include test suspension or TNE, winny, drol, halos, tren, methyl tren, mast... usually day of meet it not uncommon for a guy to also hit a 200-300mg bump of test suspension or TNE in addition to his other cocktail of drugs...

think of your health and be smart really... for the guys you hear who are staying on the 400-500 year around, why is that? since its clearly not for health and im sure their crit rbc etc is suffering for it for no real extra benefit unless they need it cuz there genetics wont support their current conditioning with using on the 100-200/wk...

and from my personal experience with blasts and cruises... ya, on 1500-2g/wk of test I feel like fucking zeus all mighty himself lol i try my best to stay cool as a cucumber but subconsciously im sure there is probably a little more cock in my walk than but whatever I just make sure I keep my behavior and attitude humble and level headed regardless...


now when backed down to cruise doses which range from 150-180/wk avg of test with 105-120/wk of deca for joints I feel confident and healthy with great well being... like I know my levels are stable and unaffected by stress or any other factors that would create a yo-yo effect on my natty levels, i know my labs are within range, based on previous tests of same doses, so for the most part I am healthy but again everything is stable balanced and im functioning like a well oiled machine so I feel good...

side note: Im the type A alpha so realistically Im more than likely going to come off like a dick to insecure less self confident people regardless...

 

[jdoisjohnny]

hrt like doses are the best way to go for year around health... doing orals or blast of fast esters at a certain point like 6-8 weeks out from a meet is plenty of time for your body to make great gains with minimal added stress on ur body unless ur trying to do a meet every few months then like proBBs ur gonna just have to stay on high doses all the time to maintain your specific level of conditioning...

various combos include test suspension or TNE, winny, drol, halos, tren, methyl tren, mast... usually day of meet it not uncommon for a guy to also hit a 200-300mg bump of test suspension or TNE in addition to his other cocktail of drugs...

think of your health and be smart really... for the guys you hear who are staying on the 400-500 year around, why is that? since its clearly not for health and im sure their crit rbc etc is suffering for it for no real extra benefit unless they need it cuz there genetics wont support their current conditioning with using on the 100-200/wk...

and from my personal experience with blasts and cruises... ya, on 1500-2g/wk of test I feel like fucking zeus all mighty himself lol i try my best to stay cool as a cucumber but subconsciously im sure there is probably a little more cock in my walk than but whatever I just make sure I keep my behavior and attitude humble and level headed regardless...


now when backed down to cruise doses which range from 150-180/wk avg of test with 105-120/wk of deca for joints I feel confident and healthy with great well being... like I know my levels are stable and unaffected by stress or any other factors that would create a yo-yo effect on my natty levels, i know my labs are within range, based on previous tests of same doses, so for the most part I am healthy but again everything is stable balanced and im functioning like a well oiled machine so I feel good...

side note: Im the type A alpha so realistically Im more than likely going to come off like a dick to insecure less self confident people regardless...

When you blast such high dosages for a quick period of time are you able to maintain most of the strength/muscle gains and how do you drop from 1000 back down to 200. Is it just a quick drop or you come down slowly?

 

[ManoftheWorld]

When you blast such high dosages for a quick period of time are you able to maintain most of the strength/muscle gains and how do you drop from 1000 back down to 200. Is it just a quick drop or you come down slowly?

Now my doses are something I've gradually ramped up over the years so my body can utilize all the drugs efficiently as well as for my build and size, those are the doses required for me to still make progressive gains... its common knowledge that at some point due to your genetic limit with the amount of mass you've already acquired;' just making gains of 7-10lbs over a course of a blast is considered great but can require some doses considerably more than the casual users dose.

as far as dropping ya, just quick I usually do bi-weekly pins so whenever my next pin was just start the cruise dose... for me particularly I just mainly do it for the muscle building effect but like having near PL level strength cuz frankly it is a killer mind rush knowing you can literally move some serious amount of weight...

but yeah there is some drop, both from the small drop in size from extra water held which effects things like leverage when lifting but also using less drugs will lower the CNS stimulant effect of the larger drug doses so my strength will drop down lower as well... nothing shocking of a drop ever if anything I lose some minorr strength endurance like not being able to get certain weight for extended reps or the drop off in a little weight in the quick explosive power lifts like if training a 5/3/1 routine for something like dead or bench... somone who was training solely in PL could easy compensate to keep those loses from minimum to none just by making modifications to their training but since I just lift in my own hybrid style, using some low rep PL techniques combined with some some high rep volume techniques I do it to just try keep try to keep a healthy balance... I like being big... not ripped like BB, but lean and still fit and athletic with some higher than average strength to boot.. its a practical world application level of fitness and athleticism I can use that is a happy medium between true BB and true PL..

 

[jdoisjohnny]

Sorry that i'm asking so many questions about this, but i'm very curious about this topic. I am also curious is it just better to just completely be off then pct and get back on or does cruising and blasting yield the best strength and size gains i'm more worried about strength of course. So for some powerlifters and bodybuilders especially bodybuilders i assume they are on higher doses more often cause genetically I don't think we can hold that much muscle naturally.

 

[invain]

So I get what is healthy, but I'm also curious what powerlifters, strongmen, and powerlifters at the top of their sport do. I've assumed that most of them keep their dosages pretty high year round. I've read about PLs staying on like 400-500 test and then "blasting" with orals and other things around competition. Now I don't know how true it is. Can anyone shed some light i'm just curious? Also does being on 200 feel like you're off for the people that have cruised at 200?

Most of the guys I know stay on 500 mg - 1 gram of test year round, and then add in something like tren or orals x number of weeks before a meet.

I'm not going to mention any names, but I have friends that know one of the top Raw lifters very well. They told me he's pretty much on everything under the sun, and he never comes off or cycles down.

 

[jdoisjohnny]

interesting I guess people do what they got to do to be the best.