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Anybody still use METFORMIN?

I have merck 850mg tabs and only used them exclusively for carb load days only. Glucophage helps keep fat down, but is no magic bullet. You can still experience "spill over" and bloat when eating huge carb meals.
 
I have seen guys use glucophage very well for glycogen super-compensation, I have also seen it go wrong, it can really upset your stomach in higher doses if you cant keep food down you cant carb load.
 
Metformin is the "NOLVADEX" of the diabetic world ,meaning there are several newer pills ,metformin is just older and more perscribed cuz its been around longer and is weaker in its effects.Most of the newer oral diabetic medications work more like insulin ,causing weight gain VS. weight loss as with metformin.One could use Rosiglitazone post workout instead of shooting slin.My only beef with Metformin is that 53% of the people that take it GET THE SHITS! causing alot of them to quit.It works by blocking carbs in the gut ,remember the fat blocking drugs ,or indigestable fat causing horrible shits:eek:
 
...It works by blocking carbs in the gut...

Did you read this in wikipedia? :rolleyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metformin

..........................................

Mechanism of action

The exact mechanism of action of metformin is uncertain despite its known therapeutic benefits. Its mode of action appears to be reduction of hepatic gluconeogenesis, decreased absorption of glucose from the gastrointestinal tract, and increased insulin sensitivity. The 'average' person with type 2 diabetes has three times the normal rate of gluconeogenesis; metformin treatment reduces this by over one third.[13] It has also been shown to decrease intestinal absorption of glucose, and may also improve insulin sensitivity by increasing peripheral glucose uptake and utilization, although such an effect will occur nonspecifically following the lowering of glucose levels, regardless of how this lowering was achieved. A 2001 study showed that metformin stimulates the hepatic enzyme AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK), which plays an important role in the metabolism of fats and glucose.[14] The molecular target which metformin directly interacts with remains elusive.

................................................


Read some science studies BEFORE wikipedia sure you can found better info....like this one:

Pharmacol Res. 1994 Oct-Nov;30(3):187-228.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7862618&dopt=Abstract

Re-evaluation of a biguanide, metformin: mechanism of action and tolerability.

................................................

Metformin is a biguanide antidiabetic medication, that has been in use for over 30 years. Its mechanism of action, unknown until a few years ago, is now linked to an improved peripheral sensitivity to insulin, through a stimulated tissue glucose uptake by a transporter linked system. Interest in metformin has been revived by the recent observation of a specific activity of this agent on some of the major traits of the so called 'polymetabolic syndrome' (or 'syndrome X'), characterized by: insulin resistance, hypertriglyceridemia, hypertension and reduced fibrinolytic activity. Metformin, in studies examining one or more of these, has been shown, possibly through its peripheral insulin sensitizing mechanism, to correct most of the major symptoms characterizing this insulin resistance syndrome.

..................................................

Did you see any reference to intestinal carb block action in this study?

We talk about metformin not some sort of Garcinia Cambogia in here.

P.S.: I felt this stomach disconform from Dianben 850 (2 times half tabs) for the first days.No special shits.

Nice drop in fat with diet and cardio in order.It really helps but it's not a miracle of course.
 
Are you trying to say that metformin dosnt interfere with the absorbtion of carbs in the intestinal tract?Or that it dosnt cause diarrhea?I must disagree.....it also causes malabsorbtion of B12 and folic acid.
 
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And it raises shbg, which reduces circulating free androgens, which obviously isn't a good thing.
 
I was taking Avandamet (Avandia and Metformin) a couple of years ago for my diabetes. It almost killed me. Personally I would never touch the stuff again.

The story is rather long so I'll cut to the chase...

The manufacturer of Avandamet was experiencing poor quality control and the dosage was off the scale. In fact the FDA shut the plant down and siezed everything on the dock that was about to go out the door.

The PDR states one of the side effects of metformin is a condition called lactic acidosis and is fatal 50% of the time. Fortunately I actually read the insert from the pharmacy and when wierd symptoms started (I'll go into those in a few), I went back to the doc. Well, she started wandering off down the wrong path until I mentioned this side effect. She said "wait a minute, I'll be right back". she then did some research of her own and came back and told me to stop taking it immediately. After a few days, the symptoms receded.

It's difficult to describe the symptoms, they included restless leg syndrome, the inability to sleep for more than 30 - 45 minutes at a time (you can imagine how I felt after a week of this), sharp searing pain in various parts of my body that would suddenly appear and disappear. As an example, I was watching TV one evening and suddenly my right thigh felt like someone had stuck a red hot car cigarette lighter on it. A few minutes later my left forearm felt like it was on fire. This would appear randomly when I would least expect it. The worst was the sleep problems. I would doze off and a half hour later I would wake up with uncontrollable urges to walk around continuously. In fact if I tried to stay in bed it was impossible to keep my legs still.

I'm not positive all of this was solely due to the metformin. The Avandia dosage was wrong as well.

After stopping this med, the symptoms receded signifigantly but not completely, after seeing a neurologist about it I ramped up my workouts and started using deca. After a couple of weeks of this the problem has gone away and hasn't returned. I suspect the neurological damage was repaired by the deca. No doc will agree with me on this, but there is a reason they give it to burn patients etc.

My advice is to be very cautious about using this drug. If any of these symptoms appear, stop taking it immediately. This condition will kill you if not taken seriously.

BTW, there is a recent report linking Avandia to a 45% increase in heart attack risk.

In my opinion it proves my hypothesis of using insulin to control blood sugar levels. Insulin is a natural compound normally present in the human body, and has been there for millions of years. None of the pharmaceutical products can claim that. I try to avoid all pharmaceutical prooducts that aren't naturally present. Pharmaceutical companies are a business, and their profit motive is much more important to them then your life. :mad:
 
I have been continuing to read about all these insulin mimickers and it gets a bit confusing. I just read in another article that Metformin doesnt allow you to free up as much testerone in the body, and I also read about the bad androgen receptor effects. Definitely not good. Alot of people have been recommending Avandia over Metformin because it doesnt mess with test or your androgen receptors. The negative side of Avandia (just like insulin) it can easily make you fat which is something we dont want.

But I was thinking about taking Avandia PWO and then after my next carb meal take some Metformin to slow absortion and fat accumulation. I theorize that we will get the quick response from Avandia and shuttle as much carbs, glucose and aminos post workout, and then half hour to and hour later after a large oatmeal and whey isolate protein meal take only 500 mg of Metformin to stop the fat accumulation, plus I wondered if using a lower dosage of Metformin would not effect free testerone and androgen receptors.

Just a thought!!!
 
Are you trying to say that metformin dosnt interfere with the absorbtion of carbs in the intestinal tract?Or that it dosnt cause diarrhea?I must disagree.....it also causes malabsorbtion of B12 and folic acid.

I said that the mechanism of action it has is NOT an "decreased absorption of glucose from the gastrointestinal tract" as wikipedia said BUT "an improved peripheral sensitivity to insulin" as PUBMED study said.

You maybe have bad shits during metformin intake but that is reported side of this medication and doesn't mean that it interferes with carbs in gastrointestinal tract.

This simply means that you have stomach disconform (reaction) with this medication.

You are conffusing a side from a medication with his mechanism of action...in this case there is no relation between them.

Other medication can cause this side and doesn't interfere with carbs.:rolleyes:

P.E. NSAIDs drugs (naproxen an others..) can cause ulcera...but their mechanism of action is obviously not to cause an ulcera to do its job (relieve pain)!

It's simply a side!

I googled this search chain "medication side diarrhea" and the first link expose this:

http://health.howstuffworks.com/how-to-cope-with-medication-side-effects3.htm

......................................................................
Gastrointestinal System Side Effects

The gastrointestinal system includes the mouth, esophagus, stomach, small intestine, large intestine, and rectum. Almost any medication has the potential to cause a side effect involving some part of the gastrointestinal system. Many medications produce diarrhea, constipation, dry mouth, mouth sores, difficulty swallowing, heartburn, nausea, vomiting, loss of appetite, or abnormal cramping. Other drugs cause bloating and gas, and some cause rectal itching.

Diarrhea can be expected after taking many medications, but in most cases it is temporary and self-limiting; that is, the diarrhea should stop within three days. During this time, do not take any diarrhea remedy (even over-the-counter or herbal ones), and drink plenty of liquids to replace the fluid you are losing. If the diarrhea lasts more than three days or is accompanied by fever, call your doctor.
..............................................................
 
And it raises shbg, which reduces circulating free androgens, which obviously isn't a good thing.

This is a side i suffer when i was off but now on Test E, DBOL and EQ and some proviron.

Do you think this could make a difference? :D

Same for B 12 and folic acid deficient absorption...B vitamins are not a problem if you get 3 B complexs tabs per day + 1-2 multivitamins/mineral per day.(on Metformin of off).

I prefer old metformin who can improve my peripheral slin sensitivity (normally not very good as Endomorph) and down a bit androgens and high SHBG to Avandia risk of heart attack and HIGH price.

About lactic acidosis and his relation with Metformin:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11412284&dopt=Abstract
..............................................................................

Lactic acidosis in metformin therapy: searching for a link with metformin in reports of 'metformin-associated lactic acidosis'.
Lalau JD, Race JM.

Service d'Endocrinologie-Nutrition, Hopital Universitaire, Amiens, France. [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: The link between metformin and lactic acidosis in metformin therapy may be causal, associated or coincidental. Our objective was to investigate this link by studying and analysing published reports of so-called 'metformin-associated lactic acidosis'. RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS: systematically searched in the BIOSIS, DERWENT, EMBASE, MEDLINE, and PASCAL databases of the English language and non-English language literature for all reports of so-called 'metformin-associated lactic acidosis' published from May 1995 through January 2000. We did not include reports related to metformin overdose or contrast media-induced renal failure. Metformin accumulation and concurrent pathologies were critically reviewed as precipitating factors for metformin-associated lactic acidosis. Metformin accumulation was assessed in terms of the recorded measurement of metformin concentration in plasma or, if not available, by the presence of primary renal failure, i.e. renal failure that was not secondary to a shock syndrome. RESULTS: We found 21 reports describing a total of 26 patients. Criteria of lactic acidosis (lactate > 5 mmol/l, pH <or= 7.35) were not met in four patients. In the remaining 22 patients, plasma metformin concentration was determined in only four, of whom one had a normal value. In the 18 patients with lactic acidosis where plasma metformin concentration data was not available, the presence of primary renal failure was absent or unlikely in six patients, uncertain in two, and likely or proven in 14. With regard to these 14 patients, the precipitating factor was metformin in 12 patients (in the context of renal failure either chronic or acute) and intercurrent pathologies in two others. Overall, lactic acidosis was either absent (n = 4), precipitated by concurrent pathology (n = 8), precipitated by metformin without apparent associated pathology (n = 12) or of uncertain origin (n = 2). Death occurred 10 times but only once in the 12 patients with metformin-induced lactic acidosis and this was not related to metformin. CONCLUSIONS: While the term 'metformin-associated lactic acidosis' is commonly used to depict all situations of lactic acidosis in metformin therapy, true metformin-associated lactic acidosis, i.e. one which refers to metformin and concurrent pathologies as co-precipitating factors, was never observed in the studied reports. As there was no mortality due to metformin alone, it is important that physicians are familiar with the range of other risk factors that contribute to lactic acidosis in patients treated with metformin.

............................................................................

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/22/6/925

............................................................................

Diabetes Care, Vol 22, Issue 6 925-927, Copyright © 1999 by American Diabetes Association

ARTICLES

Incidence of lactic acidosis in metformin users

M Stang, DK Wysowski and D Butler-Jones
Saskatchewan Health, Regina, Canada. [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: The purpose of this study was to determine the incidence of lactic acidosis in a geographically defined population of metformin users. RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS: The study was based on a historical cohort from the Saskatchewan Health administrative databases. Individuals with a metformin prescription dispensed between 1980 and 1995 inclusive were eligible for the cohort. Person-years of exposure were calculated. Cases were defined by hospital discharge with a diagnosis of acidosis (International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision code: 276.2) and confirmation by chart review of a blood lactate level > or = 5 mmol/l. Death registrations of individuals dying within 120 days of a metformin prescription were also reviewed. RESULTS: During the study period, 11,797 residents received one or more metformin prescriptions, resulting in 22,296 person-years of exposure. There were 10 subjects who had hospital discharges with a diagnosis of acidosis. However, primary record review revealed only two cases with laboratory findings of elevated blood lactate levels, for an incidence rate of 9 cases per 100,000 person-years of metformin exposure. In both cases, other factors besides metformin could have contributed to the lactic acidosis. No additional cases were found on review of death registrations. CONCLUSIONS: From 1980 through 1995, the incidence rate of lactic acidosis was 9 per 100,000 person-years (95% CI 0-21) in patients dispensed metformin in Saskatchewan, Canada. This incidence rate was derived from a population with complete ascertainment of hospitalizations and deaths associated with lactic acidosis in metformin users. It is similar to previously published rates based on passive reporting of cases, and it is well below the lactic acidosis rate of 40-64 per 100,000 patient-years in patients prescribed phenformin.

...................................................................................
 
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Alot of people have been recommending Avandia over Metformin because it doesnt mess with test or your androgen receptors. The negative side of Avandia (just like insulin) it can easily make you fat which is something we dont want.

This is not true. Where did you read that? Avandia will not make you fat (no matter how you take it). If anything it will make you leaner (considerably, if you suffer from insulin insensitivity). The one negative thing about avandia is all the recent stuff to come out saying it doubles your risk of having heart problems, but who knows? I know quite a few diabetics who have been using it for years and they've never had any problems, bloodwork always comes back fine, but everybodys different, so who knows. A good percentage of type 2 diabetics are severely overweight (morbidly obese), so that could definitely have something to do with heart problems. I will be using it during my next mass-gaining phase, so we'll see if the reported anabolic properties occur.
 
AVANDIA

I wouldnt touch it PWO. Guys do you even know its mechanism of action?
1. Block the absorption of carbohydrates in the small intestine (Do you want this PWO? didnt think so)
2. Block the synthesis of glucose in the liver (could be beneficial on a cut)
Due to those factors, the sensitivity of cells is increased, because blood sugar levels drop.
Last undesirable effect is that metformin actually increases levels of SHBG, and may block the androgen receptor. (I dont think anyone of us wants this).
I only see this drug being useful for precontest dieting, and getting into ketosis. Do not use it on a bulk - it is counterproductive.
Use Avandia instead - much better.

But Avandia is linked to heart attacks.
 
IGF-1 / Metformin

Is there any anti-diabetic drugs that do NOT effect IGF-1 levels? I know we do not need to have IGF levels jacked all day long.
 

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