Anyone try GAKIC yet?

[SZona]

i feel you r really younge???? so ill let ya off the hook alittle! drugs do work!!! hey i wish there were none!! then all would be even!!, but its not even,,, and drugs do work!! and they cost a fortune at a high level where i compete at!! i could tell ya alot but ya sound like a smart guy,,, n will figure this out for yourself,, if ya do sum research!, all these supps are scams,, your better off eatin a steak for creatine, sorry but its the truth!!

im glad ya like coffee but personally id never ever drink it n never have!!!....i buy no-dose or vivarine....i prefer to keep my perfect teeth!! i dont need them brown!! so drink up son!!

luv someone who thinks he knows the truth!!!!! i have probably won more pl or bb shows than you have even seen or heard about!! this is the last i will say on this subject to you!

sorry luv dave

Are you talking to me? So is this what I have to look forward to when I get all big, grown up, and smart? Making profound statements like "Drugs Work"?! Hold the phone, we have another Einstein on our hands here folks! Nobody is disputing that drugs do work or that some supplements do not. But, to throw the baby out with the bathwater is a little bit foolish dont you think? Are some supplements worthless? Absolutley! Will they ever produce comparable results to certain pharmaceuticals? Remains to be seen. Is it probable and likely? Yes. Would most bodybuilders prefer to use supplements as an alternative to "drugs"? Guarantee it! You, however, may be the exception to that rule. Hey, whatever works for you. Congrats on your powerlifting and bodybuilding success as well as your dental hygiene!

It should be noted that the research studies for Gakic were performed at the University Of Florida Health Sciences Center at Shands Hospital.

SZ

 

[SZona]

Alright Sam, lets give this a shot. Il make a proposition and you decide if you wanna put up....

Send 1 weeks worth of samples (5 workouts) to 10 of our board members who volunteer for this challange (preferably well known and respected members) and they will report back in a week and give their opinion on the product. Did they gain any weight? Did lifts go up? Did they add the reps you claim? Did it take longer for fatigue to kick in?

Sound good? If your willing to back your product in this challange, give us the green light and we will wait for 10 volunteers (NO NEWBIES!)

First of all I do not have an unlimited supply of this product. I do back this product 100%, however, I am not so hell bent on proving myself right that I am going to spend my own money to do it. Your proposal would require 400 tablets or 3.125 bottles. This would be a retail value of roughly $210. I do not profit directly from the sale of this product so what would the benefit to me be other than you guys acknowledging that I was in fact correct? You wont need 5 workouts to notice the results as it works from the very first time you take it. Assuming you know your current strength levels, typical work weights and actually train hard, its efficacy will be clearly evident. What I will do is send 4 workouts worth to an unbiased well respected member of this board who can then give feedback. That, I will do. You guys choose and get back to me.

I never claimed that you will "gain weight" with this product. But being able to push yourself past your typical failure point will ultimately lead to lean mass gains.

SZ

 

[rAJJIN]

That sounds pretty fare to me.
Now who is a good honest guy to Guineepig it?

Jethro Tull
Jerrywear
Gooey

I know these guys are consitent and will know there strength....
Not moderators, Not affilated with muscletech or any other supplement companys and advanced BB`s

Im curious to here the results... sounds Like an interesting product.

 

[Dad]

Mechanism

I looked at the referenced studies. Both are clinical research studies - plenty of these are done, but it's difficult to control variables in human subject studies. Not saying these studies are flawed, just that they suffer from the same problems any human subject study suffers from when the humans are "free-range" vs in a metabolic ward.

It WOULD be interesting to have the proposed mechanism by which this product claims to work explained. The ad copy says GAKIC "...deal(s) with metabolic fatigue, the by-products lactic acid and ammonia, thus delaying the moment of failure."

It is generally thought that "failure" is reached due to the reduction in supply of very short-term anaerobic energy sources (ATP hydrolyzed to AMP, etc).
Lactic acid is the product of using glucose anaerobically, so I'm not sure how you could reduce the prodcution of lactic acid unless you could somehow get the metabolic process to switch to an aerobic process where glucose is then oxidized to CO2 and water. As to dealing with ammonia, this is created (in part) by the breakdown of proteins (which contain an NH2 notrogen group on amno acids) and is dealt with in the kidney. Again, I'm not sure how you would alter this, unless you could somehow alter kidney function or limit the breakdown of protein. Protein is generally not used as a short-term energy source in anaerobic metabolism (there are some instances of this occuring - uncontrolled diabetes, etc).

So... as I say, it would be interesting to know the proposed mechanism for this supplement's action. Unfortunately, clinical studies of performance differences, especially whare they derive their own equation for measuring these differences, do not provide this.

 

[Dad]

Attitude

Casey,

The attitude displayed in your responses is right on the edge...again.

Haven't we mentioned this to you before?
I think so.

 

[MikeS]

Dad, we have to make an exception because Casey is "at a high level where i compete!!".
Or, "i have probably won more pl or bb shows than you have even seen or heard about!!".

And ALL those wonderful exclaimations points.

Those comments are Bullshit. This guy wont be around long...

 

[SZona]

Um Mr. Zona doesnt muscletech GIVE OUT samples to try the Gakic? Your saying you couldnt get a few extra samples from your company in order to prove a point on a board that gets 50 MILLION hits per month? If they are sure the results will go wel, that would sure as hell look to me like a worth while project. Do i smell doubt and excuses looking for a reason not to put up to this challange? We could even do 5 people for 3 major workouts. Thats only 15 samples total.

DAD you should email MuscleTech your question and have them send it to their chemist and let him answer ur question correctly (if he can)

Actually that would be 75 total samples @ 3 workouts per person x 5 people. I have no doubts and I am not making excuses. I said that I was willing to do is send 4 samples of my own supply to one unbiased knowledgeable board member and that is what I will do, end of story. Just out of curiosity TP4U, do I know you somehow? You seem to have some beef with me for whatever reason...which is fine... I just generally like there to be a good solid reason behind any aforementioned resentment. Just curious as your comments were what drew me into this discussion in the first place!

Dad,
Excellent post and an excellent question. Thanks for reading the studies. Problem is there is no answer....Yet. To quote the study published in Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise

"The exact mechanism by which the components of GAKIC enhanced acute exhaustive anaerobic muscle performance is currently not known. Hoiwever, the mechanism likely included effects on anaerobic energetics, modifications of muscle bed hemo-dynamics, metabolic acidosis, or ammonia levels, and/or enzymatic pathways concerning branched chain ketoacid and nitrogen metabolism."


SZ

 

[Dad]

True...

I understand the posiblity that there can be no answer yet.

It is NOT infrequent for effects to be observed clinically before an explaination of the mechanism is uncovered in the lab.

This has been, for the most part, and interesting discussion. I'm just always curious as to why these things may or may not work, and what would explain its actions.

 

[SZona]

Na no resentment bro. Just said it basicly as a joke cause i rememberd u backin it on mayhem and ur name was the first one that came to mind. I used ur name cause i was pretty sure most people would know who i was talking about (a good thing). I just dont really care for muscletech and from their past reputation its kinda hard to believe they put out a legit product like this one claims to be. Its also really expensive. Nothing against u bro, ur actually a good bb, winning North Americans is no small task.

Now as for the samples... i dunno where the math is messed up. 3 packets each (one per workout) x 5 poeple = 15 samples. Muscle tech wont give u 15 samples to hand out to prove their product is legit?

Thats cool bro. No problems then.

On the math...your right, my bad. I am a teacher, but not a math teacher . I will consider this and see what I can do.

SZ

 

[TooPowerful4u]

OK so we got jethro, gooey, jerry..... we need 2 more. Any ideas?

 

[rAJJIN]

OK so we got jethro, gooey, jerry..... we need 2 more. Any ideas?

BigByrd? Ric Phoenix? Shit theres a ton of guys here that Id respect there opinion..Bboy,Jbomb,Mike1107..

Id say just as long as there not already in kahootz (is that a word )
with another company.

 

[caseyviator]

dad and mike s

Dad, we have to make an exception because Casey is "at a high level where i compete!!".
Or, "i have probably won more pl or bb shows than you have even seen or heard about!!".

And ALL those wonderful exclaimations points.

Those comments are Bullshit. This guy wont be around long...

first i donot know who dad is?? and why i wont be around long!!!i dont get it ya want sum proof private message me......n ill prove as much of it as i can by scanning sum very old results from powerlifting usa or maybe ya can still look up that old stuff online im not sure n i still think i hold sum ohio state natural records from the early 90s such as a 750 sq and 500 bp natural in maybe 91 or so??? b4 all the super shirts n suits n wraps they have now , but i can get ya sum evidence! even today in the what used to be the adfpa...i think its the usa now???? not sure though...as far as bb i think ya can look up results at the npc????? not never tried but i have posted sum pics over the years n still can.....actuallly never thought id get insulted by sumone of your caliber mike so sorry again if i offended you...i certainly am sorry if i did!

mike s is sumone who i have learned tons from over the years!! i respect you as much as i respect anyone i know on the net, i should probably post more ...i just miss the way it use to be!!
as bolex ,gade n meso always changed...i think of promuscle as the next best thing to those old boards.... i always re registered, but back round 1996 i hardly ever posted!! i just listened and learned a hell of alot from these boards about juice i never hardly posted cept arond contest time! ..i am 40 now
i started competein in pl at 14 in 1979... with a 230 sq 190 bp and a 200dl at 132lbs !!!i have competed in bb or pl every single year atleast 3 times/year for my whole life up to 2003 just bp n deads after rippin the quads though! ..how many guys can say that!! i was obbsessed n kinda still am!

since i worked up to the 242s naturally and competed back when there was really 1 somewhat drug free nats to the worlds the uspf.which lead ya to the ipf worlds ioc tested! i competed against coan n goggins in succcesive years getting no better than 3rd place each year natural with a 1850 total in 220s -42s. so i got smaoked by the best in the world! ..then i ripped both front quads off both kneecaps at the same time squatin 830 ....kinda like the fux thing but i did not rip my patella tendon as he did,,,,but went down the same way....then in 1999 i started bb....i have won over 35 powermeets at times in my life and 9 bodybuilding shows and am qualified for the nationals!!!


im sorry if you guys think im comin down hard on supps, but ive tried damm near all over the years and none work like drugs..so sorry to offend sumone like mike s......i have no idea who dad is! so i cant say much...maybe he had a different handle in the past in the mid 90-s????????

 

[Mr Pickles]

On the math...your right, my bad. I am a teacher, but not a math teacher .
SZ

i'm glad we cleared that up cuz i was getting confused

we should pick someone who lives in the US because those damn europeans are allowed to use AAS, lazy americans arent

 

[xcelbeyond]

we should pick someone who lives in the US because those damn europeans are allowed to use AAS, lazy americans arent

Well - I agree, but for a different reason

Whoever is gonna be provding this stuff doesn't need the additional burden of shipping stuff overseas.

 

[BIGKIWI]

me me me I'll try it I'll give anything a go twice

 

[BIGKIWI]

I will give an honest unbiased opinion on whether it works or not

 

[sparky1214]

gakic

I've got some samples comin my way, and i'll give a few to big byrd, if he's down?

 

[sparky1214]

Well as heavy as he lifts, even if the shit does work i doubt it will be on him.

True. I'll ask him tho.

 

[gooey]

great thread...

Dad once again ur debating skills are nothing short of awsome!!! Id read about this product and I agree with many parties on this and also disagree. Some supplements do work, while others do not, but u can say the same for some drugs. This is a matter of relativity also, aka genetics. Some drugs work for certain people, yet some they dont work well or actually sometimes opposite reactions. And like Dad has stated already their is no conclusive cause and effect study to show that it worx. I would like to see more info on this cuz they said the same about creatine. Worx for me. Id be willing to try this out, but my own workouts too see if I feel any changes or differences in the amount of repetitions I can do. If it worx for me Id jump on the wagon, but I am also very critical of musc tech supps. I buy nike cuz they work and feel great, otherwise i wouldnt, way too pricey for what the product is. Send me a PM if were sending out some samps
gooey - ur friendly chubby guinea pig

 

[rAJJIN]

Bump^

Is it On, or is it On?
Maybe szona or Tp4u can pick at random the guys to sample it
so we can keep this going?