Are DOMS an indicator of growth?

[Deleted member 61292]

Yes it is the old age question. The debate seems never ending. I'd like to get pm's thoughts on this. Please vote.

My answer is yes.

Now let not split hairs please. I know I could train till failure on ever lifting repping 20+ with a slow eccentric and be more sore than a effective 4x8 program.

 

[btech]

IntenseMuscle.com - View Single Post - Do you guys get sore?

 

[AJW91]

How many long distance runners are huge and jacked? Because I know a few people who weigh all of 140lbs and have experienced soreness after running.

 

[petersouth]

I always get sore.

Christ I did 7x7 with squats on Thursday and was still sore on Monday. I can only shudder to think of what 8x8 next week with the same weight will bring.

I don't think DOMs is necessarily an indicator of growth but I don't remember growing without being sore.

 

[bapperfan]

DOMS is an indicator of muscle breakdown, not muscle growth - the growth won't happen without adequate rest and nutrition.

 

[btech]

Is this true in yall's experience?

Some experienced bodybuilders have said that you get sore when doing something new that your body is not used to. When that new thing stops making you sore, it is because your body has adapted to it, recognizing it as a normal thing and thus your body no longer sees a need to supercompensate for growth. This is when you should change it up in terms of rep scheme, rest period, whatever . . . I myself like to stick to my bread and butter lifts and do my best to continue to get stronger at those lifts.

My traps, glutes and thighs get sore on a consistent basis. For my size, these are my best muscle groups. Chest, shoulder and arm soreness is pretty rare for me (triceps will sometimes get sore). For my size, these are my worst muscle groups.

 

[AJW91]

DOMS is an indicator of muscle breakdown, not muscle growth - the growth won't happen without adequate rest and nutrition.

Are you sure about that? Your muscle fibers don't have any nerve endings, so how could soreness indicate muscle breakdown?

 

[brisk walk]

my shoulders never get sore and they are my best bodypart.


my chest gets sore as do my quads......but after you have trained for a while


soreness seems to be rare.....i don't think it is an indication of growth.....but when i use rest pause or drop sets.....i do get a little sore and it takes 2 days to get the soreness to subside......just my feelings on the matter.

 

[angus62]

I have gotten sore from playing 36 holes and hitting balls afterwards. Didnt get any bigger though.

 

[iceberger]

Soreness is an indicator of lactic acid build up, which is not necessarily good. I personally like to feel a little sore so I know I accomplished something, but it doesn't mean you are going to grow.

You are usually sore after a deep tissue massage, but that isn't making you bigger. It releases the build up of lactic acid as well as softens up / lengthens the muscle".

Growth happens when you rest.

 

[alfresco]

my opinion . . . .

This question has been around as long as man has lifted weights.

Delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) is really a misnomer.

I don’t believe human muscle has the nerves necessary to register
pain. (Think intramuscular injections for instance.) But clearly some-
thing is getting sore, but I have no clue what and neither does
anybody else.

DOMS is primarily caused by eccentric “exercise”, although I have
have experienced incredible soreness as a result of static contraction
(think forearms in rock climbing for instance) and never from just
concentric exercise. Interesting.

In exercise, it is not necessary nor desirable to induce DOMS and
is for the most part avoidable if one takes the proper precautions.

Now . . . and in an attempt to answer your original question “Are
DOMS an Indicator of Growth?” I would say no from my personal
experience although I do know, when I was growing, and growing
fast, I was not sore (but could make myself sore if I wanted to) but
my muscle did “feel” different, not sore, but always tight and full
during these growth spurts.

And lactic acid absolutely nothing to do with it. That is just so far
out in left field I don’t have neither the time nor the inclination, will
not even attempt to answer the whys and wherefores . . .

 

[bhumik]

This question has been around as long as man has lifted weights.

Delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) is really a misnomer.

I don’t believe human muscle has the nerves necessary to register
pain. (Think intramuscular injections for instance.) But clearly some-
thing is getting sore, but I have no clue what and neither does
anybody else.

DOMS is primarily caused by eccentric “exercise”, although I have
have experienced incredible soreness as a result of static contraction
(think forearms in rock climbing for instance) and never from just
concentric exercise. Interesting.

In exercise, it is not necessary nor desirable to induce DOMS and
is for the most part avoidable if one takes the proper precautions.

Now . . . and in an attempt to answer your original question “Are
DOMS an Indicator of Growth?” I would say no from my personal
experience although I do know, when I was growing, and growing
fast, I was not sore (but could make myself sore if I wanted to) but
my muscle did “feel” different, not sore, but always tight and full
during these growth spurts.

And lactic acid absolutely nothing to do with it. That is just so far
out in left field I don’t have neither the time nor the inclination, will
not even attempt to answer the whys and wherefores . . .

What do you mean muscle fibers dont have nerve cells? Take a knife and cut your calf muscle in half and see if you feel anything. You will be in lot of pain and this is not only from the meiseneers of pacinian corpuscles (the skin nerve endings).

reflex arc> reflex hammer hitting knee > muscle spindle sensing the stretch and jerking.

maybe i am off but i am 99.99 percent sure that muscles have nerve endings and some of this nerves do carry pain message back to brain. how do you explain the pain from a muscle tear or sprain..

 

[bapperfan]

Soreness is an indicator of lactic acid build up, which is not necessarily good. I personally like to feel a little sore so I know I accomplished something, but it doesn't mean you are going to grow.

You are usually sore after a deep tissue massage, but that isn't making you bigger. It releases the build up of lactic acid as well as softens up / lengthens the muscle".

Growth happens when you rest.

I've read that lactic acid buildup IS good as it triggers release of GH from the pituitary.. Don't know what others think about this??

 

[bapperfan]

Are you sure about that? Your muscle fibers don't have any nerve endings, so how could soreness indicate muscle breakdown?

Have you ever noticed that the day or two after heavy squats for example you cant walk properly. I assumed this was from damage to the muscle fibers (and obviously a bit of lactic acid buildup). If the muscle didn't have nerve endings, a) how could you feel this?, and b) how would the muscle contract in the first place form motor signals from the brain??

 

[AJW91]

Have you ever noticed that the day or two after heavy squats for example you cant walk properly. I assumed this was from damage to the muscle fibers (and obviously a bit of lactic acid buildup). If the muscle didn't have nerve endings, a) how could you feel this?, and b) how would the muscle contract in the first place form motor signals from the brain??

Your muscle fibers aren't innervated with the kind of nerves that are capable of feeling pain. They do have motor nerves, though. There are sensory nerves generally present in the muscle, but not in muscle fibers. The fact of the matter is that nobody truly knows what are the underlying biological causes of soreness, all that we know is that soreness is caused sometimes after exercise. There has been no scientific connection made between muscle soreness and microscopic tears in muscle fiber; if you think there is, I challenge you to find evidence.

 

[bapperfan]

Your muscle fibers aren't innervated with the kind of nerves that are capable of feeling pain. They do have motor nerves, though. There are sensory nerves generally present in the muscle, but not in muscle fibers. The fact of the matter is that nobody truly knows what are the underlying biological causes of soreness, all that we know is that soreness is caused sometimes after exercise. There has been no scientific connection made between muscle soreness and microscopic tears in muscle fiber; if you think there is, I challenge you to find evidence.

You have definitely given me food for thought, so thank you for that. I will let you know if I find anything new...Have a nice day buddy...

 

[kotter716]

there is definitely a lot more too this than I first thought.....

 

[Tom]

well growth or not in a twisted sort of way i get alot of satisfaction with a moderate amount of doms a day or so after a good workout!

 

[TNH]

I used to get sore all the time. Ever since I started eating lots of veggies/fruits and taking anti oxidants like Idebenone, curcumin, and Resveratrol, I barely feel any soreness at all.

 

[homonunculus]

Your muscle fibers aren't innervated with the kind of nerves that are capable of feeling pain. They do have motor nerves, though. There are sensory nerves generally present in the muscle, but not in muscle fibers. The fact of the matter is that nobody truly knows what are the underlying biological causes of soreness, all that we know is that soreness is caused sometimes after exercise. There has been no scientific connection made between muscle soreness and microscopic tears in muscle fiber; if you think there is, I challenge you to find evidence.

You might enjoy reading Amstrong's review on the topic (very old now). He has an entire section outlining the early literature demonstrating an association between muscle ultrastructural damage (z-line streaming, myofibrillar disorganization, etc.).

Mechanisms of exercise-induced delayed onset muscu... [Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1984] - PubMed result (I can email you a .pdf of the paper if you like.)

The question really could be considered one of semantics: Are we talkin' about damage or remodeling? A force deficit can be induced from eccentric contractions, before the onset of an inflammatory response is really substantial, which will then lead to further force deficit, ultrastructural "Damage" and of course DOMS, eventually.

This is an interesting review, too. (I can send ya this one, too.)

Exercise-induced muscle damage and potential mecha... [Sports Med. 1999] - PubMed result

-Scott