Arthur Jones and his views

[hawkmoon]

Here is a call to our man @alfresco - I'd love to see some materials that we might not otherwise know about regarding Jones, his views, and his interaction with historical bodybuilding legends.

I read a lot about him when I was younger and there was strong appeal for me in his writings. I was also fortunate to be starting my training in an era when Nautilus equipment was readily available.

Always keen to know more!

 

[alfresco]

A little back story.

I will not divulge 'all' (Hawkmoon knows) as I had a very personal relationship with
Arthur when I lived with him on and off during many years of his life. But will be happy
and will do my best to answer any legitimate questions about this era and will throw in
some interesting anecdotes (not bragging) about Arthur and the people that were a
part of his life.

But . . . I will not debate about the merits of his training principles or his machines.
While I have no control over what is written here, any of the above will be ignored by
me. If you don't have anything that forwards the thread that Hawkmoon started, out
of courtesy to him, please don't post.

I found out about Arthur Jones from the Iron Man magazines that littered my sensei
Donald I Buck's house. The magazines had Arthur's articles and advertisements for his
Nautilus machines. (I was just looking at the letter from Perry Rader asking Arthur if
he wanted to purchase the magazine) My sensei Donald I. Buck was a bodybuilder
who had won a few contests, was an Olympic lifter, just missed the Olympic Team and
trained us with weights during the summer months where I saw many students grow
like weeds, could not recognize by the end of the summer.

My Dad subscribed to Sports Illustrated Magazine at the time and in one issue there
was an article on Arthur Jones and Nautilus. I knew nothing personal about Arthur
but had had read his articles and knew about the Nautilus machines. But what really
interested me just as much if not more was his personal history and that is what
motivated me to visit.

Attached is the article (I have talked with with the author of the the article) and a foto
from that article that gave me the motivation to go and meet him in Lake Helen, FL.

When I cold called Arthur one afternoon from work in 1975 (yes, I am that old), I told
him that I will would I like to come and visit and wanted to know if he would be there.
His response was (I will never forget it) "Does anybody know where they will be in the
future?" I said no but I was coming out on such and such date and if he is there, I would
like to meet him and have a look around. I did meet him and was shown around the
facility. Casey was there, Dick Butkus too, and El Darden. Was taken to lunch across the
street at a diner that no doubt only existed because of the Nautilus facility, and was
generally treated like royalty. Arthur always said you never really know who you were
meeting so treat them well. But if you crossed him, your life would be hell.

So began a 'relationship' that spanned 32 years.

After that, I would swing thru Miami on my way back from Africa or South America,
rent a car and drive up to Lake Helen. And after Nautilus was sold, I continued to
visit him on Ocala after he started MedX. I attended many seminars there, ones
where he flew in doctors from all over the country, free of charge, in is own planes,
landed them on his private runway (the largest private, non military landing strip
in the country. NASA even considered landing the Space Shuttle there.), lectured
them, fed them, lectured them again, called them ignorant, them sent them home.
I still have my strength curve, one that was generated on a MedX leg extension
machine that Arthur 'trained' me on. It was the first and only time he trained me.

I had some great times, some of the best times of my life, so now . . . as long as I
have the time, I will be be happy to answer questions and I will be posting and
commenting on what I consider interesting fotos (I have heaps), articles and pieces
of history that may be new to many of the younger members or just fun to revisit
for the older members that were around back then.

My only caviat is that most of the material have is locked up in a storage facility.
While I have quite a lot of it here at home, the bulk of it is off site, not easily accessible
but will do my best to back up everything I say.

I hope you enjoy.

 

[USMuscle9403]

Awesome stuff, @alfresco Thank you!

 

[maldorf]

Man, I loved that nautilus stuff. The pullover machine and leg extension were my favorites. The gym I used to lift at back in the late 90s had some that I still used.

I think our high school has some back in the 80s too. Seemed to hit the muscle just right and very little stress to the joints.

 

[D2]

When I first started, My peers was following the weider principles and I was the odd ball doing a full body HIT Arthur's workout which was greatly influence by Dardens writing.

 

[jeroendebleser]

alfresco: what were Arthur's views on bulking? Did he believe in it or did he not believe in it being productive?

I've read the Nautilus Bulletins but I don't recall him mentioning anything about it.

 

[madg]

I always wanted to do and athur jones routine but i not understand how ..

I have read many articles but still not get it ... maybe doesnt help english is not my first language

 

[hawkmoon]

Jones was obviously very passionate about his methods of muscle training and a brilliant inventor...but what initiated and fueled this conviction and ambition to change how we trained?

 

[jeroendebleser]

I always wanted to do and athur jones routine but i not understand how ..

I have read many articles but still not get it ... maybe doesnt help english is not my first language

That should enable you to do it yourself. But feel free to ask alfresco (I'm sure he'll gladly answer) or me (not as much of an authority on Jones' HIT as alfresco though) any questions you might have.

I've read all of the original Nautilus Bulletins and most of the books of Jones' pupil Ellington Darden so I think I know a thing or two about it as well

 

[madg]

That should enable you to do it yourself. But feel free to ask alfresco (I'm sure he'll gladly answer) or me (not as much of an authority on Jones' HIT as alfresco though) any questions you might have.

I've read all of the original Nautilus Bulletins and most of the books of Jones' pupil Ellington Darden so I think I know a thing or two about it as well

Thank you brother

Will watch this and ask questions if i have

Better to watch than read lol

 

[alfresco]

alfresco: what were Arthur's views on bulking? Did he believe in it or did he not believe in it being productive?

I've read the Nautilus Bulletins but I don't recall him mentioning anything about it.

Arthur believed that is was counterproductive. Obviously a small amour of fat is healthy and necessary
for productive but getting "real fat" or bulking was not desirable because once fat cells are added to the
body they can only shrink (can only be surgically removed), not be reduced in number which explains
why it is easier to get the second time around. And there will be a second time around if you life
long enough.

He believed that most bodybuilders he saw, came in contact with (and there were hundreds) were too
fat. And this fatness in many ways ways hindered their development and their ability to work out
quickly, move from exercise to exercise and finish you workout in something under 45 minutes which
seems to be a number that sticks in my head now and it may be revealed later in some literature I
will post later. He also realized you can't run around in contest shape all the time also as that too hinders
your development (think energy), i.e., you ability to get a productive work in. I think he believed that
you should have some visible abs at all times if you are a bodybuilder.

This getting fat (which is what bulking is) and losing fat, bulking and losing fat all the time places an
necessary burden, on you body and send a confusing message to your body and is unnecessary.

Here is a very early foto, not a great one, overexposed, but you get the idea of his condition at a very
young age. He is not huge but you can see the potential. (Even late in life, he had very good forearms and
calves and legs.) Don't know if he was working out at the time but from the timeline I have, I think he
was to some degree, or then again it could have been a natural state but I vote for some 'crude' weight
training. Sorry, I don't have date or location. (Arthur is on the right.)

 

[alfresco]

I always wanted to do and athur jones routine but i not understand how ..

I have read many articles but still not get it ... maybe doesnt help english is not my first language

Do not worry about the language barrier.

All will be revealed in time . . .

 

[alfresco]

That should enable you to do it yourself. But feel free to ask alfresco (I'm sure he'll gladly answer) or me (not as much of an authority on Jones' HIT as alfresco though) any questions you might have.

I've read all of the original Nautilus Bulletins and most of the books of Jones' pupil Ellington Darden so I think I know a thing or two about it as well

These 'home videos' were produced in his motion picture studio (which I have been in when
he was directing a video) and were made for the home market. This is why Boyer Coe, the
model, is not huge (Arthur had him diet down) as he did not want to intimidate the average
person (his market) with a huge bodybuilder which most people find a bit off putting but
amusing, and it sets an unrealistic goal for the average person. And the training was toned
down, again, as to not alienate his audience.

He did though expect Boyer to gain size at some point in time during his training but I believe
(as Boyer or somebody said), this failed to happen, for what reason I do not know. Training,
no drugs . . . again, I don't know.

When Arthur trained Casey, Sergio, Arnold, Franco for instance, he trained them much much
more intensely but I was not there but knew people that were and it was at an entirely
different level of effort and expectation . . . and he expected a lot from you in training.

 

[nidnoy]

Wow, that was 23 minutes of brutality! On some exercises, leg extension for example, was Boyer stopping at the bottom and letting the tension go for just a second? Was that just to extend the set or am I not seeing things correctly?

Thanks for this, always interesting to read about training and just this overall lifting lifestyle.

 

[alfresco]

Jones was obviously very passionate about his methods of muscle training and a brilliant inventor...but what initiated and fueled this conviction and ambition to change how we trained?

The attached may help answer some of your questions. Other articles I will post
may help too.

This interview is one of the best I have ever read with Arthur. Is is not an article,
it is in a Q & A format. (I have talked to this author as well).

But briefly, he started out with volume training then reached 'peak' was forced to
quit do to work obligations, resumed training, quickly reached the same point as
before, then progress stalled. So eventually he reduced his training to see what
would happen with less training as to not continue beating his head against a wall
and he eclipsed his previous best with less training, them he reduced his training
even more and gained more until he reached his genetic potential.

He told me what routine was (very 'simple' and basic) when I asked him but if I
don't have it in my notes, I think it is in some of the literature I will post later.

So that series of events is what primarily influenced his training philosophy.

 

[alfresco]

Wow, that was 23 minutes of brutality! On some exercises, leg extension for example, was Boyer stopping at the bottom and letting the tension go for just a second? Was that just to extend the set or am I not seeing things correctly?

Thanks for this, always interesting to read about training and just this overall lifting lifestyle.

I think it was to remove all momentum. To make sure that you moved the weight, not the
weight moving you.

This very common among those who train with weights; momentum. (There is a time and
place for a little of it, but not in the middle if a set.) If memory serves, Arthur believed that
you should be able it stop at any point during the execution of an exercise. If you could
not stop, control the weight, it was too much weight and momentum was moving the
weight for you and not the muscle.

But from the people I have talked to that were trained by Arthur in the infamous 'Quonset hut'
at the DeLand High School (I have been there but way later) where he coached out some
amazing results from people, his training style may have been a bit looser. But I was not there,
was before my time unfortunately so this is second hand info. But Ellington Darden has said
the same thing in print somewhere . . . his training style was a bit 'loser' early on.

 

[nidnoy]

Interesting, yes momentum for me is usually about ego and has caused acute injuries as well as playing into wear and tear on my achy joints. I don’t know that Boyer would have been able to stop at just any point during the motion on the way up, as he used some explosive force. Do you think the ability to stop at any point would negate explosive type reps? Would definitely cut down on the weight able to be lifted as well as the number of reps for said weight. Did he use any type of count?, say 3 down, 2 count up? Thanks

 

[alfresco]

Interesting, yes momentum for me is usually about ego and has caused acute injuries as well as playing into wear and tear on my achy joints. I don’t know that Boyer would have been able to stop at just any point during the motion on the way up, as he used some explosive force. Do you think the ability to stop at any point would negate explosive type reps? Would definitely cut down on the weight able to be lifted as well as the number of reps for said weight. Did he use any type of count?, say 3 down, 2 count up? Thanks

I have not looked at the video recently, but I think Arthur may have used something
called a 'pre-stretch reflex' here. A pre-stretch reflex is something akin to baseball
player bringing his bat back just slightly before executing a swing which recutes more
fibers. Same thing for a golfer or when somebody jumps, you dip a bit before jumping
or when you go to punch somebody, you rear back then a bit more before you bunch.
Many other athletes do this which I think do it instinctively with out knowing the cause
and effect relationship I suspect but do know know.

This can be used very effectively in weight training (you see some bodybuilders do
this, Jay?) do this to some degree. But it must not be taken to extreme as it can be
counter productive. Do it just a little and it can be very productive.

Truly explosive movements have no place in weigh training and can be dangerous
if taken to extreme. There are many examples of this so I won't go into detail.
Stopping at any point during the execution of an exercise is safe but I do not
know if it "would negate explosive type reps." Again, a slight amount of a pre-
stretch reflex can and is helpful.

As far as the speed of movement, there is no secret cadence. As long as the weight
is under control, you are good to go. But accentuating the negative part of the exercise
is productive. I believe he said, is more more productive. Again, not 'super slow' as
some advocate is not the way to go with the exception of negatives, which will help
break through sticking points in training, especially in regards to negative only exercise.

I do know a man that added one inch to his arms just be slowing down the negative
part of his curls and triceps exercises. That was all he did to get that extra growth.

More on that when I post up some interesting examples of negative only exercise.

 

[alfresco]

When I first started, My peers was following the weider principles and I was the odd ball doing a full body HIT Arthur's workout which was greatly influence by Dardens writing.

Darden was influenced by Arthur, not the other way around if I understand what you
are saying. Darden was recruited by Arthur to lend a bit of credibility to Nautilus, to
have a PhD on staff.

A bit off subject but now that I am thing about it . . .

Darden trained Casey for the NABBA Universe which David Johns won but clearly
Casey was the winner but NABBA would never allow a Nautilus trained bodybuilder
to win. Just like Sergio against Bill Pearl in the NABBA Universe which Sergio should
have won. But Bill was a favorite, not Sergio. Why do you think there are very
few fotos released from that contest? They killed them all as they would show Sergio
having the better physique.

FYI . . . Arthur told me that one night when I stayed with him after dinner at a pizza
parlor (Terri, his wife at the time, who I know, was in LA preparing to go in the Tonight
Show with Johnny show or she may ave been away preparing for her 'round the world
fliht record so we were alone, he received a phone call late at night prior to the show
from a man who shall remain nameless saying that Bill was going to be the winner so
it was rigged from the very start as are many bodybuilding contests.

Here is a not so good foto of Casey before the NABBA Universe, probably in his best
condition ever. Very cut and vascular. I have much better foto (Casey sent it to me),
but I would have to scan it and post if it is handy.

 

[alfresco]

All . .. please forgive my spelling errors as I write fast and do not always do the best
job proof reading what I have written