astragalus and possible kidney delusion

[Mikedee29]

I'm new here, been a member over at outlaw for about 14 yrs, I've been dealing with this fairly recently. My most recent creatinine was 2.2 bun 23, this definitely has me scared. I'm 41 been using gear off and on for about 20 yrs, have also suffered from high bp. Obviously gear use is to blame but the high bp I know was a reason just because I've been dealing with it since late teens. Is there any legit proof/studies showing that astragalus can really benefit the kidneys. Of course the md will tell you there is no way to reverse kidney damage. I did read a study about the benefits of gh and reversing kidney damage. Was told I am stage 3ckd, what can I do, I would appreciate any help, I did start taking astragalus at 10grams daily, also started drinking 2 tablespoons of organic apple cider vinegar and 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda daily, I read that was also beneficial.

 

[qbkilla]

Is trace and high protein in urine ever ok? Can things like uti, STDs, and supplemental protein consumption cause a urinalysis to show protein in the urine or does it always indicate kidney damage? Doctors have constantly told me these things can cause protein in urine but online says otherwise. One doctor told me to stop taking supplements that contain BCAA and protein and get retested and there would be much less protein in urine, she said natural protein is fine but supplements will elevate it and she has seen this in many crossfit athletes. She turned out to be correct I stopped protein and supplements and to my surprise urine protein did actually go down.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

A diet high in salt can lead to calcium expenditure through urine which I think also presents itself in the form of foamy urine. I doubt this would apply to you.

Usually it’s protein; exercise induced proteinurea is a known phenomenon. We break down muscle tissue when we train hard, muscle at the lowest level is mostly comprised of amino acids.

If you take 4-5 days off from training and you’ll probably notice a significant decrease in foamy urine.


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There is the answer right there. Bodybuilders protein turnover repeatedly. Take in liquid protein drinks and there also will be more protein in the urine.....doctors arent trained in bodybuildingology and dont understand this outside of their realm. 4/5 of the guys freaked out about protein in their urine would be shocked to see that a week off of lifting and eating 2-3 solid meals a day for a week would put that all to rest. Bloodwork on the other hand is something to really take notice of. Here I will prove my point to everyone here. Notice the bubbles/foam during urination after protein/EAA drinks vs after solid meals....it will be much more after protein/EAA drinks.....you are not going into kidney failure.

 

[Kaladryn]

I'm new here, been a member over at outlaw for about 14 yrs, I've been dealing with this fairly recently. My most recent creatinine was 2.2 bun 23, this definitely has me scared. I'm 41 been using gear off and on for about 20 yrs, have also suffered from high bp. Obviously gear use is to blame but the high bp I know was a reason just because I've been dealing with it since late teens. Is there any legit proof/studies showing that astragalus can really benefit the kidneys. Of course the md will tell you there is no way to reverse kidney damage. I did read a study about the benefits of gh and reversing kidney damage. Was told I am stage 3ckd, what can I do, I would appreciate any help, I did start taking astragalus at 10grams daily, also started drinking 2 tablespoons of organic apple cider vinegar and 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda daily, I read that was also beneficial.

You need to follow the full spectrum of treatment. Your diet needs to be on point for kidney health, follow your doctors recommendations with common sense added, protein intake will be low.

You MUST address the blood pressure, and with more than just medication, daily cardio is a must.

You must work at hydrating well and remove anything from your diet/supplement routine that would put stress on the kidneys in any way. This may take some education.

Kidneys do repair a small amount, not like the liver, but still does. It sounds like blood pressure did most of the damage but remember, your kindeys don't need to do much if you minimize what they have to deal with.

Definitely find a good doctor and follow their recommendations, be one of the patients that does everything.

 

[Stewie]

Courtesy of Stewie [emoji846]

He mentioned it in a post once which made me go look into it more.


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You have a good memory, undoubtedly you'll be an outstanding clinician!

Yes, you're correct. When we push higher than normal intake of Na, this leads to competitive tubular reabsorption between Na and Ca, therefore pushing more Ca out. You'll definitely have foamy urine and moreso if ones insufficiently hydrated.

You'll see this with the ketogenic dieters that will up their Na to compensate for less carbs. Unfortunately, this can lead to kidney stones, sometimes. And pushing Ca levels in the dirt. Not good.

Then there's nandrolone that shifts intracellular Ca2+. Given the above, this will jack up ones BP pretty quickly.

In this case, a CCB would be beneficial.

 

[thethinker48]

You have a good memory, undoubtedly you'll be an outstanding clinician!

Yes, you're correct. When we push higher than normal intake of Na, this leads to competitive tubular reabsorption between Na and Ca, therefore pushing more Ca out. You'll definitely have foamy urine and moreso if ones insufficiently hydrated.

You'll see this with the ketogenic dieters that will up their Na to compensate for less carbs. Unfortunately, this can lead to kidney stones, sometimes. And pushing Ca levels in the dirt. Not good.

Then there's nandrolone that shifts intracellular Ca2+. Given the above, this will jack up ones BP pretty quickly.

In this case, a CCB would be beneficial.

I don’t think there will ever be a day where I won’t be annoying you over text with some obscure physiology question [emoji51]


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[qbkilla]

I also noticed when I took anavar (granted it was 80mg for 8 weeks), I had alot of protein in my urine (urinalysis). Once I stopped, it as gone.

no other aas, oral, tren, made me piss that much protein. anavar is said to be relatively safe but I haven't ran it much since that scare.

maybe shows that besides elevated blood pressure AAS may negative affect kidneys in some way. I knew they affected liver, but always assumed their affects on kidneys were secondary (blood pressure related or dehydration related)

 

[Mikedee29]

You need to follow the full spectrum of treatment. Your diet needs to be on point for kidney health, follow your doctors recommendations with common sense added, protein intake will be low.

You MUST address the blood pressure, and with more than just medication, daily cardio is a must.

You must work at hydrating well and remove anything from your diet/supplement routine that would put stress on the kidneys in any way. This may take some education.

Kidneys do repair a small amount, not like the liver, but still does. It sounds like blood pressure did most of the damage but remember, your kindeys don't need to do much if you minimize what they have to deal with.

Definitely find a good doctor and follow their recommendations, be one of the patients that does everything.

My primary care physician set me up with a nephrologist, my appt is at the end of July. My md had told me that he and the nephrologist looked over what was going on with me while together, and I guess the neph said it would be beneficial to have a biopsy of my kidneys just to get a better idea of what they're dealing with. Do you really think that's necessary?

 

[Fluffy_XL]

Is it true that quite a few herbal supplements do stress the kidneys more or less also so that one has to sort at least some of them out?

I'm thinking about all those liver protectants for example ...which means no orals but I guess that's a very good idea anyways when having kidney issues.

 

[Flex500]

Was hoping you would Chime in.No pain or dizziness or any other kinds of symptoms so not overly concerned right now. Thank you . Always appreciate your extensive knowledge base!

If you are concerned at all or to alleviate concern you could get a spot creatinine/albumin ration test. The problem with the standard dipstick test is it will only detect fairly large amounts of protein but a creatinine/albumin test will detect tiny amounts of protein in the urine, and more specifically, albumin.

 

[Flex500]

My primary care physician set me up with a nephrologist, my appt is at the end of July. My md had told me that he and the nephrologist looked over what was going on with me while together, and I guess the neph said it would be beneficial to have a biopsy of my kidneys just to get a better idea of what they're dealing with. Do you really think that's necessary?

I would say if two medical professionals including a nephrologist are suggesting it, it is likely a good idea. Obviously that is a pain but it may be warranted. Have they exhausted all other testing? The problem with all the kidney testing is you really just get an indication that there is a problem but not necessarily what the problem is so if they have exhausted all testing and are thinking "something is up but we don't know what" then a biopsy may be needed.

I would follow the direction of your nephrologist and all of the suggestions above which, I'm sure, is what your docs will say. Get BP controlled first and foremost, get on normal trt (like real trt amounts if you are not), cardio, etc.

Do you have any blood sugar issues? Your seeing more bodybuilders having issues these days as more are pre or full blown type II diabetics.

 

[Flex500]

There is the answer right there. Bodybuilders protein turnover repeatedly. Take in liquid protein drinks and there also will be more protein in the urine.....doctors arent trained in bodybuildingology and dont understand this outside of their realm. 4/5 of the guys freaked out about protein in their urine would be shocked to see that a week off of lifting and eating 2-3 solid meals a day for a week would put that all to rest. Bloodwork on the other hand is something to really take notice of. Here I will prove my point to everyone here. Notice the bubbles/foam during urination after protein/EAA drinks vs after solid meals....it will be much more after protein/EAA drinks.....you are not going into kidney failure.

Totally agree, but, wouldn't you agree it would be nice to have these urine tests be valid as supporting evidence regarding ones kidney health? All an individual literally has to do is not train for 3-4 days and eat like a normal human. For example, adding in a valid creatining/albumin urine spot test in a first morning sample would be great supporting evidence to the shape your kidneys are in. Yes, that test would be screwed after eating 300 grams of protein and doing 8 sets of 405 pound squats 16 hours earlier. Can't these numb-nut bodybuilders just chill for 3-4 days? Hell train monday through thursday take friday-sunday off and get it done monday AM.

 

[whacked]

Dude. I love your posts. lol

Based on this, would concomitant use of Test offset and thus, assist?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15120629/

You have a good memory, undoubtedly you'll be an outstanding clinician!

Yes, you're correct. When we push higher than normal intake of Na, this leads to competitive tubular reabsorption between Na and Ca, therefore pushing more Ca out. You'll definitely have foamy urine and moreso if ones insufficiently hydrated.

You'll see this with the ketogenic dieters that will up their Na to compensate for less carbs. Unfortunately, this can lead to kidney stones, sometimes. And pushing Ca levels in the dirt. Not good.

Then there's nandrolone that shifts intracellular Ca2+. Given the above, this will jack up ones BP pretty quickly.

In this case, a CCB would be beneficial.

 

[Stewie]

Dude. I love your posts. lol

Based on this, would concomitant use of Test offset and thus, assist?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15120629/

I would like to say yes without hesitation, although it's not as effective as the use of a CCB.

This individual had a hypertensive crisis on a Facebook page I occasionally frequent asking questions about his BP. He's was using both testosterone and nandrolone in lowish doses.

He ended up going to the ER. After admitting him, he was Rx'd hctz and a CCB. He was already Rx'd an ARB (lortastan) prior.

Guess I blew my cover with my name on that Facebook post

 

[Kaladryn]

My primary care physician set me up with a nephrologist, my appt is at the end of July. My md had told me that he and the nephrologist looked over what was going on with me while together, and I guess the neph said it would be beneficial to have a biopsy of my kidneys just to get a better idea of what they're dealing with. Do you really think that's necessary?

I would trust your nephrologist and get he biopsy, you could ask him if you could redo testing, did you do a 24hour urine collection at some point?

 

[whacked]

Nice !! Thank you again.

Stewie - are you an MD?

I would like to say yes without hesitation, although it's not as effective as the use of a CCB.

This individual had a hypertensive crisis on a Facebook page I occasionally frequent asking questions about his BP. He's was using both testosterone and nandrolone in lowish doses.

He ended up going to the ER. After admitting him, he was Rx'd hctz and a CCB. He was already Rx'd an ARB (lortastan) prior.

Guess I blew my cover with my name on that Facebook post

 

[Stewie]

Nice !! Thank you again.

Stewie - are you an MD?

You're welcome. No I'm not an MD.

I've briefly talked about my passion for sciences in this thread:

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/...676-little-slice-no-bully-pls-pt-2-a-237.html

 

[Killer.7]

Your blood creatinine is low, even though your body is producing a lot of total creainine, your kidneys are processing it so well that only your urine has high levels.

It is important to understand that creatinine is not "hard" on the kidneys in any way, it's just a marker, so the more your kidneys process, the better they are functioning.

Hey bro not to sound like a dick but i think u misread the results. There is no blood creatinine here. Only urine. The first set of data is a per litre measurement while the second set is a per 24 hour measurement. Thats why im asking. What does it mean if my per litre measurment of creatinine is normal but the per 24 hour is high. ??

 

[KillerStack]

Remembered this about anavar, from wiki:

"The drug is metabolized primarily by the kidneys and to a lesser extent by the liver. Oxandrolone is the only AAS that is not primarily or extensively metabolized by the liver, and this is thought to be related to its diminished hepatotoxicity relative to other AAS."

Also remember it being excreted unchanged in the urine, to a larger degree than other steroids.

What is the recommended doses of astragalus as a proactive/preventative supp?

 

[Kaladryn]

Hey bro not to sound like a dick but i think u misread the results. There is no blood creatinine here. Only urine. The first set of data is a per litre measurement while the second set is a per 24 hour measurement. Thats why im asking. What does it mean if my per litre measurment of creatinine is normal but the per 24 hour is high. ??

Sorry I misread your results, it still means the same thing, you are processing a lot of creatinine (because you are making a lot) so you kidneys are probably fuctioning very well.