At what dose of GH should you worry about...

[NEMSZ]

Yea, it's a real shame they didn't specify which AAS or the dose they used.

I almost never use HGH these days, but I do flirt with it's usage every once in a while before backing off. I get scared off by the substantial increase in heart rate it gives and the fact my heart muscle has very little room for error with respect to cardiac growth, just in case it has that effect. I really doubt just a simple TRT dose won't cause the heart enlarging effects of HGH, since we aren't at a supraphysiologic amount. Also, the fact no studies have shown any muscle growth from it.

But the TRIM study on HGH, DHEA, Metformin, Zinc, and I forget what else is really fascinating, so maybe there is still hope for it. Just probably not alongside AAS. But there could be things we could take to combat it. We really don't know. All we can really do is form educated guesses.

How long do you use it for and what dose if you don’t mind me asking?

And what I found interesting also about the study you posted was that their resting heart rates were all in the high 60’s which isn’t bad at all for being on gear and GH..

I do take supplements to try and combat any negative health effects in general, Ubiquinol, Curcumin, Citrus Bergamot and Cod Liver Oil are a few that I religiously take, not sure exactly how effective they are at preventing things but the posts Dante has on them are pretty interesting as well as the research..

 

[NEMSZ]

There is a clip with Dave Palumbo and Ameen Alai talking about this and I tend to agree with them on staying at right around 4iu for MOST people.

Start @ 28:01

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO4tOduAWig

Saw the video and that’s exactly the dosage I was planning on sticking with, not indefinitely of course as I’m leaning more towards 6 months on, probably the spring and summer months and then taking time at least 6 months off and never going above TRT..

I read a study that was using GH at a mg/kg dosage that worked out to the equivalent of 33iu/day for a 100kg person. Of course this was short duration, done on children. But the doctors didn't see any danger in it, apparently. King Kamali said on an interview recently that he knows some guys doing 50iu/day leading up to shows. Now of course this can lead to problems, Cf. Dallas McCarver, etc. But I think those problems occur when extreme use is prolonged over time, and not just for a few months.

50iu a day sounds preposterous lol

I wish we had studies or a better analyzed answer as to what exactly is a dangerous dose and length of time... I see lots of input and appreciate it but it’s all speculation..

Nothing that’s made me make a for sure decision lol I’m still on the fence

 

[nothuman]

How long do you use it for and what dose if you don’t mind me asking?

And what I found interesting also about the study you posted was that their resting heart rates were all in the high 60’s which isn’t bad at all for being on gear and GH..

I do take supplements to try and combat any negative health effects in general, Ubiquinol, Curcumin, Citrus Bergamot and Cod Liver Oil are a few that I religiously take, not sure exactly how effective they are at preventing things but the posts Dante has on them are pretty interesting as well as the research..

I haven't used it really a year and a half, when I did between 2-3.33iu a day. That was with just TRT though.

I did raise my eyebrows at the resting heart rate part too. For many people, it jacks up on HGH. I guess not everyone gets that problem, if it even is a problem if it's caused by HGH.

Keep taking those supplements you mentioned. I certainly do myself.

 

[mike036]

I haven't used it really a year and a half, when I did between 2-3.33iu a day. That was with just TRT though.

I did raise my eyebrows at the resting heart rate part too. For many people, it jacks up on HGH. I guess not everyone gets that problem, if it even is a problem if it's caused by HGH.

Keep taking those supplements you mentioned. I certainly do myself.

My last run with gh back in June raised my resting heart rate into the mid 90’s. I started at 3.3 ius/day and lowered it to 3 ius/day after 2 weeks. I quit after 4 weeks. I did test my igf and it was 400. I am done with gh for good,just not worth it

 

[maldorf]

My last run with gh back in June raised my resting heart rate into the mid 90’s. I started at 3.3 ius/day and lowered it to 3 ius/day after 2 weeks. I quit after 4 weeks. I did test my igf and it was 400. I am done with gh for good,just not worth it

It raised my resting rate some too, but not that bad. Certainly a side effect. You have to wonder what it is doing to the heart to cause that.

 

[nothuman]

My last run with gh back in June raised my resting heart rate into the mid 90’s. I started at 3.3 ius/day and lowered it to 3 ius/day after 2 weeks. I quit after 4 weeks. I did test my igf and it was 400. I am done with gh for good,just not worth it

I'm a little surprised the spike in heart rate isn't discussed as a side effect much when it comes to HGH. Maybe it's because we have only really known for maybe 5 or so years how significantly better it is to keep a lower resting heart rate for all cause mortality. I mean we have known longer but the attention on it is somewhat newer. Nebivolol lowered mine down to normal on HGH though. Although AAS raises heart rate too. Some misinformed people used to say it was due to water retention but that is not the cause.

 

[jcdyel33]

What dose of nebivolol do you take daily? I've heard it's the best one to take out of the beta blockers for its specificity for receptors on the heart cells compared to systemic effects.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Swifto]

My last run with gh back in June raised my resting heart rate into the mid 90’s. I started at 3.3 ius/day and lowered it to 3 ius/day after 2 weeks. I quit after 4 weeks. I did test my igf and it was 400. I am done with gh for good,just not worth it

I'm also not a fan of GH. It makes me extremely tired. Yes, I get the fullness, pumps and vascularity, but its just not worth it. I feel like my mind is hazy and not crisp and alert working optimally.

Pretty surer I'm done with it too!

 

[Black Beard]

Ok so I’m sure this has been asked before or is somewhere in some threads but with our wonderful search function I can’t seem to hone in on anything specific...

So just wondering at what dose of GH should it be a worry for things like enlarged heart tissue, LVH, Cardiomyopathy and things along those lines??

I know there’s a few guys who go beyond the 10iu range and some have even experimented in the 20-30iu range and I know HIV patients get prescribed 18iu/day but does anyone have solid info or tests they’ve done on themselves or seen studies etc? I saw an old study and Im not sure if I interpreted it correctly but it seemed to show improvement with GH on cardiomyopathy patients? Ill see if I can find it again..

The rule of thumb in regards to HRT with any hormone, the closer you stay within the natural physiological ranges, the less likely you will have negative side effects.


If you stay at supraphysiological levels for a long time+bad genetics/lifestyle, then organ enlargement/diabetes/cancer risk may be higher.

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

some older pros like John Meadows starys in trt or lower doses in the offseason and uses gh ...then only uses more moderate to heavy cycles pre contest.

they say gh is a game changer , even on trt 100-200 mgs, or say a lower-moderate cycle like 300 mgs, and makes using moderate or maybe higher doses only for pre contest.

 

[Black Beard]

some older pros like John Meadows starys in trt or lower doses in the offseason and uses gh ...then only uses more moderate to heavy cycles pre contest.

they say gh is a game changer , even on trt 100-200 mgs, or say a lower-moderate cycle like 300 mgs, and makes using moderate or maybe higher doses only for pre contest.

I can attest to that. HGH doubles the efficacy of HRT/cruise dose in my experience.


Holding muscle/strength on 150 mg test as if i was taking 300-500 mg at 4 IU daily. Seems to "wake up" the muscle memory too for me.

 

[whacked]

Agreed on all

Had no clue hgh raised HR.

I'm a little surprised the spike in heart rate isn't discussed as a side effect much when it comes to HGH. Maybe it's because we have only really known for maybe 5 or so years how significantly better it is to keep a lower resting heart rate for all cause mortality. I mean we have known longer but the attention on it is somewhat newer. Nebivolol lowered mine down to normal on HGH though. Although AAS raises heart rate too. Some misinformed people used to say it was due to water retention but that is not the cause.

 

[j2048b]

The raise in gh, and possible growth of everything (including cancers already present) and having to take stuff for thyroid etc.... That scares me, im in no way in great shape or athletic, so for most it is a waist of money especially with everything u have to run with it

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

[NEMSZ]

The raise in gh, and possible growth of everything (including cancers already present) and having to take stuff for thyroid etc.... That scares me, im in no way in great shape or athletic, so for most it is a waist of money especially with everything u have to run with it

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

I haven’t seen any case where GH causes cancer and I’ve read things that people with acromegaly actually have less cases of cancers, I believe Dante was one who posted about that as well... As for the organ growth, or heart growth I’d love to know at what dosage or extent as those people have a ridiculous output. I believe Dante was also going to post about protective qualities of GH (I was reading through his posts earlier on IG about iron chelation) but he never did, would be cool if he came in here and chimes in on that subject..

As for thyroid meds on GH, my thyroid never had an issue while on GH going by my bloodwork. But what’s also concerning is the RHR, mine was elevated but I see some people didn’t have that issue and I’m actually wondering now if It was the GH or a combination of other factors in my life that weren’t taken care of.. I used to sleep HORRIBLY, I’m talking only a few hours at a time, constantly up until 4-5am sleeping no more than 3-4 hours MAX at a time and also I was smoking ENORMOUS amounts of weed, I was to a point last year I was smoking 1/2 ounce a day easy! And that’s known to also raise heart rate as well as lack of sleep..

I sleep normal hours now and usually get 7-8 hours of sleep straight and I stopped smoking to pretty much only once in a blue moon (3x in the past year) and have overall better balance of life now..

Black Beard posted about not going above physiological doses but what does that mean with GH? 2iu? 4iu? Does anyone know the equation?

Answers and input are leading more and more to a “well just try it and monitor yourself and see what happens” kind of situation buuuuut id hate to spend the money on GH and get unwanted effects and then just have my money go to waste lol...

 

[Black Beard]

In my experience, heart rate went back down to normal after 1-2 months of consistent use at 4 IU. (Normally 60s-70s BPM, on HGH went up to low-mid 80s BPM)


I also get lethargy/sleepiness, so i dose in the early evening so serum levels spike around bedtime, amazing sleep and wake up refreshed.


My normally low blood glucose that averaged around 70 mg/mL went up to 100 ng/mL for the first month and normalize after 2 months.


I am taking long-term for anti-aging but have seen the increased pump/strength, hair/skin quality boost as well as improved cognition/concentration/mood and erection quality.


I did have a fairly low baseline of around 170 ng/mL, so someone starting higher would likely not feel as many benefits.


Physiological dose would be around 2-3 IU, with target IGF-1 of 200-300 ng/mL the level of a healthy person in the 18-25 age range. Everyone has a different IGF-1 response that can vary due to genetics, diet, medication, liver health, etc. Some people naturally have higher baseline IGF-1 than others, it also varies by ethnicity. Africans tend to have higher IGF-1 and this is where "black never cracks" comes from, they age better thanks to higher IGF-1, testosterone and estrogen levels. Studies show higher IGF-1 means less wrinkles and "aged appearance" of the skin. This may also be one of the reasons why Africans can build more muscle more easily in many cases but i digress.

 

[FITABOLICREP]

What time in the evening do you take and then what time is bedtime?

In my experience, heart rate went back down to normal after 1-2 months of consistent use at 4 IU. (Normally 60s-70s BPM, on HGH went up to low-mid 80s BPM)


I also get lethargy/sleepiness, so i dose in the early evening so serum levels spike around bedtime, amazing sleep and wake up refreshed.


My normally low blood glucose that averaged around 70 mg/mL went up to 100 ng/mL for the first month and normalize after 2 months.


I am taking long-term for anti-aging but have seen the increased pump/strength, hair/skin quality boost as well as improved cognition/concentration/mood and erection quality.


I did have a fairly low baseline of around 170 ng/mL, so someone starting higher would likely not feel as many benefits.


Physiological dose would be around 2-3 IU, with target IGF-1 of 200-300 ng/mL the level of a healthy person in the 18-25 age range. Everyone has a different IGF-1 response that can vary due to genetics, diet, medication, liver health, etc. Some people naturally have higher baseline IGF-1 than others, it also varies by ethnicity. Africans tend to have higher IGF-1 and this is where "black never cracks" comes from, they age better thanks to higher IGF-1, testosterone and estrogen levels. Studies show higher IGF-1 means less wrinkles and "aged appearance" of the skin. This may also be one of the reasons why Africans can build more muscle more easily in many cases but i digress.

 

[Black Beard]

What time in the evening do you take and then what time is bedtime?

Generally, 3-4 hours before bedtime. So if i sleep around 10 PM, that would be around 6-7 PM. I don't obsess over this timing to much because sometimes i sleep at 10 PM, other times at 12 AM, but the sleepiness will peak around that time which helps me sleep.


Our natural, largest GH spike happens 1 hour after falling asleep too. HGH peak after injection is usually around 3-4 hours later.

 

[Black Beard]

It raised my resting rate some too, but not that bad. Certainly a side effect. You have to wonder what it is doing to the heart to cause that.

Either directly due to higher Free T3 or increase local tissue conversion of T4 to T3 most likely (this is T3 we don't see in a Free T3 serum test)

 

[FITABOLICREP]

so after you take your shot do you eat anything in that 3-4 hour time before bed?

 

[Black Beard]

so after you take your shot do you eat anything in that 3-4 hour time before bed?

I usually have it right after dinner, remember it takes 3-4 hours to spike in the blood. I don't try to avoid food either if i want a snack in the evening or anything.