At what point do genetics end and dose size take over?

[tkav1980]

I always see threads where people talk about pro doseages or some natty whose massive and people on both sides calling bullshit on the other. I personally feel like the line between one and the other has become so blurred its almost unidentifiable any more. I can completely understand that top level pro's take a large dose of several compounds to look like that and I can also understand that sub par gym rats do the same and look like shit. What I never see is an intelligent discussion on human genetic potential and when to step on the gas so to speak.

Sure you get a piece of solid advice here and there and a handful of candid vets being honest about what it takes them to look the way they do and achieve the competitive success they have enjoyed, but even on this board some of those guys are the genetically elite.

Take shelby for example. When I first joined shelby was not a huge guy. He came into competition hard as nails, i mean it looked like the never had any fucking skin, just muscle with a thin coat of spray tan on top. Now He's an IFBB pro and big as shit. Thats a lot of hard work but he is, weather anyone wants to believe it or not, in an elite class of genetically gifted people. Much more so that 99% of the forum.

Then for comparison take me. I would put my work ethic in the gym next to anyone period. I've had my layoffs due to work scheduling and im not strict with my diet like someone preping is but unless im laid up on my deathbed or my demands at work simply will not allow it I'll under no circumstances eat below 500 grams of protien a day. I've made progress, regressed a bit, progressed some more, regressed a bit and finally at this point I'm at my heaviest and leanest simultaneously.

Ive used moderate doseages rarely venturing above a gram total and even with sub par consistancy those hormones IMO are strong enough to put me at a relatively respectable offseason look at 5'7" and 220. Not impressive but still much better than the average joe.

The glaring differences between Shelby and I wouldnt IMO be made up with my consistancy. At least I dont think they would, they can only be made up with genetics.

If you took Phil and I and put us on the same diet with an identical drug regiment Phil would still be the pro and I wouldnt. What my question is, is when do you step on the gas? 3 years consistant training? 5? 1?. Whats the difference in results between me, the guy that took steroids before he ever hand any business touching them, and the guy that was either naturally freaky or freaky due to years of dedicated hard work? Whats the resulting difference?

Or, is it all decided my what your DNA says your body can do with those chemicals and it doesnt really matter because once everyone is on about the same thing they should all look about the same(Which we know isnt true)?

 

[MightyJohn]

I've wondered this for a while myself

 

[southernmuscle214]

I wouldn't say it happens because the way you respond to a dose will be genetic as well...you may need more to hit a certain bodyweight whereas someone else may require less at your same height

 

[BALDNAZI]

Amazing isn't it? My gym is full of guys that just have "it". Alot of them are not even close to me in strength, some may not have my overall size or train anywhere near my intensity which I pride myself on. Yet, they look like cartoon characters. Yes they are on but when you talk to them they really seem clueless about what they are using, alil of this and alil of that. And to top it off they party constantly.

I have done very well with the genetics I have and you guys know im not small or weak but it will always come down to genetics. Guys like bboy, Shelby, Phil etc. are just like these guys but have been so consistent and hard working over time they take it to the next level. There is always someone bigger and better then you, but pros are pros for a reason and it definitely isn't just the drugs.

 

[MightyJohn]

Amazing isn't it? My gym is full of guys that just have "it". Alot of them are not even close to me in strength, some may not have my overall size or train anywhere near my intensity which I pride myself on. Yet, they look like cartoon characters. Yes they are on but when you talk to them they really seem clueless about what they are using, alil of this and alil of that. And to top it off they party constantly.

I see/know some from the shore that fall into that catagory...don't You hate them

 

[sma]

Amazing isn't it? My gym is full of guys that just have "it". Alot of them are not even close to me in strength, some may not have my overall size or train anywhere near my intensity which I pride myself on. Yet, they look like cartoon characters. Yes they are on but when you talk to them they really seem clueless about what they are using, alil of this and alil of that. And to top it off they party constantly.

I have done very well with the genetics I have and you guys know im not small or weak but it will always come down to genetics. Guys like bboy, Shelby, Phil etc. are just like these guys but have been so consistent and hard working over time they take it to the next level. There is always someone bigger and better then you, but pros are pros for a reason and it definitely isn't just the drugs.

This is why knowledge in bodybuilding is not determined by the size of the person relaying the info. I have spoke with 4 top rank national competitors and believe it or not once you get to know them and shoot the shit, time and time again during training etc you can talk about peds. 2 of the guys simply showed me a layout when I asked them what there running (from there trainer). The other two talk in cc's so totals they have no idea they go by cc's. Training all of them were different but the 2 guys that didnt have trainers just good genetics usually just trained high high volume up to 10 exercises big body parts.

I think thats why its hard for alot of people to trust any trainer because what credentials are we going to base it on there size, there school accreditations, there clients results? How will we know that they can figure us out especially when guys like us have spent years trying different diets, workout routines, drug protocols etc. Seems like a easy way out someone to blame if stuff doesnt go your way or someone who just wants the stress out of there hands.

 

[sma]

I always see threads where people talk about pro doseages or some natty whose massive and people on both sides calling bullshit on the other. I personally feel like the line between one and the other has become so blurred its almost unidentifiable any more. I can completely understand that top level pro's take a large dose of several compounds to look like that and I can also understand that sub par gym rats do the same and look like shit. What I never see is an intelligent discussion on human genetic potential and when to step on the gas so to speak.

Sure you get a piece of solid advice here and there and a handful of candid vets being honest about what it takes them to look the way they do and achieve the competitive success they have enjoyed, but even on this board some of those guys are the genetically elite.

Take shelby for example. When I first joined shelby was not a huge guy. He came into competition hard as nails, i mean it looked like the never had any fucking skin, just muscle with a thin coat of spray tan on top. Now He's an IFBB pro and big as shit. Thats a lot of hard work but he is, weather anyone wants to believe it or not, in an elite class of genetically gifted people. Much more so that 99% of the forum.

Then for comparison take me. I would put my work ethic in the gym next to anyone period. I've had my layoffs due to work scheduling and im not strict with my diet like someone preping is but unless im laid up on my deathbed or my demands at work simply will not allow it I'll under no circumstances eat below 500 grams of protien a day. I've made progress, regressed a bit, progressed some more, regressed a bit and finally at this point I'm at my heaviest and leanest simultaneously.

Ive used moderate doseages rarely venturing above a gram total and even with sub par consistancy those hormones IMO are strong enough to put me at a relatively respectable offseason look at 5'7" and 220. Not impressive but still much better than the average joe.

The glaring differences between Shelby and I wouldnt IMO be made up with my consistancy. At least I dont think they would, they can only be made up with genetics.

If you took Phil and I and put us on the same diet with an identical drug regiment Phil would still be the pro and I wouldnt. What my question is, is when do you step on the gas? 3 years consistant training? 5? 1?. Whats the difference in results between me, the guy that took steroids before he ever hand any business touching them, and the guy that was either naturally freaky or freaky due to years of dedicated hard work? Whats the resulting difference?

Or, is it all decided my what your DNA says your body can do with those chemicals and it doesnt really matter because once everyone is on about the same thing they should all look about the same(Which we know isnt true)?

great question and i have been thinking about genetics since ive read all of dantes, and phils posts since i joined here

personally I think genetics are 3 things (not in order of importance)

1 where you start from before you touch a weight
2 where you go as soon as you touch aas
3 your muscle insertions, muscle bellies, frame, shoulder width, hip and stomach circumfrance

1. is very important because your starting point can put you leaps and bounds ahead of your competition
2. is important for people that are taking it serious and want to change there body (because if not then it wont matter because they will never use peds)
3. is what makes a pro (after all we know that dedication and drugs can bring you to pro size but without muscle insertions, round muscle bellies, big shoulder width and small hip and stomach circumfrance youll just be another big MOFO)

My Assumption of some of the best genetics Ive seen ever are always the best running backs in the nfl. Height and muscle wise (compared to bodybuilding standards). Some nba players like lebron james dwight howard come to mind but dont hold nearly as much muscle as nfl running backs

if anyone thinks otherwise heres top ten

The Most Jacked, Ripped, Cut, Shredded, Strongest, Muscular NFL Football Player Athletes