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Attn: My AAS abusing enlarged heart having brothers...

G.I.Bro

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Many of you have seen Dante harp on the benefits of Pycogenol for its Ejection Fraction / enlarged heart improving benefits. Keep in mind these studies usually use a combination of CoQ10 and Pycogenol.

Now here is the deal, Pycogenol is freaking pricey. If you are taking 400mg of Ubiquinol (coq10) a day you are already spending quite a bit on just that. Pycogenol is a French Maritime Pinebark (Pinus pinaster) extract that has been trademarked and marked up significantly. I always wondered if a generic pine bark could offer the same benefits. For example, NOW sells one that is significantly cheaper (Chinese Red Pine (Pinus massoniana)). I had not found an answer until recently.

The fresh bark of the French Maritime Pine is taken and mixed with water and ethanol to form an extract. A study that compared the branded Pycnogenol® with a generic pine bark extract of Chinese origin, which was taken from a different botanical species, found only slight differences in the composition of the active antioxidant substances. No quality difference has been found between Pycnogenol and generics that use the botanical species of Pinus as the basis.
Source: “Sang Min Kim, Suk-Woo Kang, Je-Seung Jeon and Byung-Hun Um, “A comparison of Pycnogenol® and bark extracts from Pinus thunbergii and Pinus densiflora: Extractability, antioxidant activity and proanthocyanidin composition”, Journal of Medicinal Plants Research Vol. 6(14), pp. 2839-2849, 16 April, 2012, Academic Journal:: Backend - Users

Dante doesnt look like he is selling any, but BulkSupplements.com (Amazon Prime = free shipping) has 95% standardized proanthocyanidin (238mg) for cheap. Makes taking Pycogenol MUCH more affordable.

1. 400mg Ubiquinol a day (cant skimp here, it costs $)
2. 250mg/day pine bark (bulk) - in place of pricier trademarked "Pycogenol"
3. lots of bulk citrulline malate...cheap.
4. dirt cheap taurine

If you want to spend more, add arjuna. This is your core EF/heart stack.

Dante - call up some people at NOW or BulkSupplements and source their bulk pine bark so I can send you money instead of someone else.
 

DOGGCRAPP

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Although im a huge believer in ubiquinol....im not totally on board with pycogenol.....it looks like its additive with ubiquinol but i have not seen the repeated upon repeated data like you see with ubiquinol

if its expensive (i dont know) i would pass to be honest until a huge amount of data came out saying it "needs" to be used

Its not in my curcumin ubiquinol group Ill just put it that way
 

dragonfire101

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Many of you have seen Dante harp on the benefits of Pycogenol for its Ejection Fraction / enlarged heart improving benefits. Keep in mind these studies usually use a combination of CoQ10 and Pycogenol.

Now here is the deal, Pycogenol is freaking pricey. If you are taking 400mg of Ubiquinol (coq10) a day you are already spending quite a bit on just that. Pycogenol is a French Maritime Pinebark (Pinus pinaster) extract that has been trademarked and marked up significantly. I always wondered if a generic pine bark could offer the same benefits. For example, NOW sells one that is significantly cheaper (Chinese Red Pine (Pinus massoniana)). I had not found an answer until recently.

The fresh bark of the French Maritime Pine is taken and mixed with water and ethanol to form an extract. A study that compared the branded Pycnogenol® with a generic pine bark extract of Chinese origin, which was taken from a different botanical species, found only slight differences in the composition of the active antioxidant substances. No quality difference has been found between Pycnogenol and generics that use the botanical species of Pinus as the basis.
Source: “Sang Min Kim, Suk-Woo Kang, Je-Seung Jeon and Byung-Hun Um, “A comparison of Pycnogenol® and bark extracts from Pinus thunbergii and Pinus densiflora: Extractability, antioxidant activity and proanthocyanidin composition”, Journal of Medicinal Plants Research Vol. 6(14), pp. 2839-2849, 16 April, 2012, Academic Journal:: Backend - Users

Dante doesnt look like he is selling any, but BulkSupplements.com (Amazon Prime = free shipping) has 95% standardized proanthocyanidin (238mg) for cheap. Makes taking Pycogenol MUCH more affordable.

1. 400mg Ubiquinol a day (cant skimp here, it costs $)
2. 250mg/day pine bark (bulk) - in place of pricier trademarked "Pycogenol"
3. lots of bulk citrulline malate...cheap.
4. dirt cheap taurine

If you want to spend more, add arjuna. This is your core EF/heart stack.

Dante - call up some people at NOW or BulkSupplements and source their bulk pine bark so I can send you money instead of someone else.
Where people getting g l citrullin e maltate cheap? To get 4-6gm day still kind of expensive.
 

G.I.Bro

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Although im a huge believer in ubiquinol....im not totally on board with pycogenol.....it looks like its additive with ubiquinol but i have not seen the repeated upon repeated data like you see with ubiquinol

if its expensive (i dont know) i would pass to be honest until a huge amount of data came out saying it "needs" to be used

Its not in my curcumin ubiquinol group Ill just put it that way
Curcumin is like a given. Along with Vit D3, everyone should be taking LEF's extract IMO (frankly all juicers should be on an ARB too when they blast or even on cruise if you are over 130, preferably Telmisartan - ditch the lisinopril). I was just talking about some EF specific things. As for Pycogenol, I totally agree and I did not like what I was paying so I looked for a cheaper bulk source (thus the genesis for this post).

Dante: Now that I have your attention (or anyone else that has an opinion on it), may I divert you slightly off topic. I see before that you have stated that you took (or were taking) 1 grain of Armour thyroid a day (equates to roughly 100 mcg T4, 25mcg T3). I take this dose and have for a long time. Do you believe there are any health downsides to taking 1 grain of a T3/T4 combo like armour, naturethroid (cheaper clone), etc.? It is realistically quite a small dose of T3 but I dont want to be doing more damage than good. During a cut I may increase it to 2 grain at most.

I already take a high Allicin odor-less garlic extract. Thats old school as fuck sliceiepoo. Grandma told you garlic was good for you.
 
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dragonfire101

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Current daily supplements. I forgot to add this fish oil to Picasso it was in the fridge and I ran out l- taurine. These are my daily supplements currently and add 5mg melatonin at bedtime. Not sure if I should be adding anything. I take curcumin too ,but my bottle ain't labled. I'm about to switch to transdermal or caps. My focus is really mitochondrial, epithelial-vascular health and anti-aging. I do 75mg test 2 x week and 500iu hcg 2 x week and bout to think about 2iu gh day going be 40 next year. Just got new script for metaformin 750mg and will take once day. If I add peps it will be TB500 and bpc 157 if I can find legit supplier. Might add Krill oil. Not sure if missing anything?
 

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maldorf

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I have inj ribose right in the middle in Brown jug.
I use Puritan's pride too. My wife just found Ubquinol 200 mg caps at Costco her last trip. They sell it in a big bottle and its about 1/2 the price of Puritan Pride. I haven't used it yet but can report back on here when I do. Its going to be awhile though because I had just bought a big supply off of Puritans Pride, spent close to $200 on it, and that's going to take awhile to get through.

Kirkland Signature CoQ10 Ubiquinol 200 mg., 90 Softgels
 
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mexbeast

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dragon101

Hey man, may I get that Botle of glutathione from you?
 
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DonJulio

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nothuman

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Many of you have seen Dante harp on the benefits of Pycogenol for its Ejection Fraction / enlarged heart improving benefits. Keep in mind these studies usually use a combination of CoQ10 and Pycogenol.

Now here is the deal, Pycogenol is freaking pricey. If you are taking 400mg of Ubiquinol (coq10) a day you are already spending quite a bit on just that. Pycogenol is a French Maritime Pinebark (Pinus pinaster) extract that has been trademarked and marked up significantly. I always wondered if a generic pine bark could offer the same benefits. For example, NOW sells one that is significantly cheaper (Chinese Red Pine (Pinus massoniana)). I had not found an answer until recently.

The fresh bark of the French Maritime Pine is taken and mixed with water and ethanol to form an extract. A study that compared the branded Pycnogenol® with a generic pine bark extract of Chinese origin, which was taken from a different botanical species, found only slight differences in the composition of the active antioxidant substances. No quality difference has been found between Pycnogenol and generics that use the botanical species of Pinus as the basis.
Source: “Sang Min Kim, Suk-Woo Kang, Je-Seung Jeon and Byung-Hun Um, “A comparison of Pycnogenol® and bark extracts from Pinus thunbergii and Pinus densiflora: Extractability, antioxidant activity and proanthocyanidin composition”, Journal of Medicinal Plants Research Vol. 6(14), pp. 2839-2849, 16 April, 2012, Academic Journal:: Backend - Users

Dante doesnt look like he is selling any, but BulkSupplements.com (Amazon Prime = free shipping) has 95% standardized proanthocyanidin (238mg) for cheap. Makes taking Pycogenol MUCH more affordable.

1. 400mg Ubiquinol a day (cant skimp here, it costs $)
2. 250mg/day pine bark (bulk) - in place of pricier trademarked "Pycogenol"
3. lots of bulk citrulline malate...cheap.
4. dirt cheap taurine

If you want to spend more, add arjuna. This is your core EF/heart stack.

Dante - call up some people at NOW or BulkSupplements and source their bulk pine bark so I can send you money instead of someone else.
I love you for posting this. I just bought more pycnogenol and it does suck that it's pricey when I'm already taking all this other stuff. I see Dante has kind of changed his tune on the supplement, but I'll still be taking it, especially with what you just found making it cheaper.
 

DOGGCRAPP

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I love you for posting this. I just bought more pycnogenol and it does suck that it's pricey when I'm already taking all this other stuff. I see Dante has kind of changed his tune on the supplement, but I'll still be taking it, especially with what you just found making it cheaper.
I havent changed my tune....if someone has the money im all for it...its just on the importance scale i dont have it up there at 4 stars like I have some other stuff
 

nothuman

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I havent changed my tune....if someone has the money im all for it...its just on the importance scale i dont have it up there at 4 stars like I have some other stuff
That makes sense. To be fair, you did recommend it in a thread where someone was concerned about ejection fraction, which isn't a concern for everyone.

After seeing this is available in powder form, this now becomes dirt cheap. Thanks GI Bro
 

nothuman

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Honorable mention, Ribose? Where it nothuman?
Hard to gauge how important Ribose is. I use the Nutri Cost (also use l-cittruline malate from nutricost)

I think if someone has a lowered EF, then Ribose in high doses should be a huge priority. It does have heart health benefits. However, it's not cheap so is it a must? I don't know. I use 5mg for preventative care. There's no doubt it's a very good supplement, the question is if it's worth it compared to the other things we discuss.
 

GreenEarth

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I use Puritan's pride too. My wife just found Ubquinol 200 mg caps at Costco her last trip. They sell it in a big bottle and its about 1/2 the price of Puritan Pride. I haven't used it yet but can report back on here when I do. Its going to be awhile though because I had just bought a big supply off of Puritans Pride, spent close to $200 on it, and that's going to take awhile to get through.

Kirkland Signature CoQ10 Ubiquinol 200 mg., 90 Softgels
Nice find man! If you prefer to take it in 100mg doses, Costco actually offers another brand that is very affordable, 100mg @ 120 capsules. They go on sale every now and again, usually for around $28, but otherwise it's $35. Of course, the big benefit of these ones is that you can purchase them online...the link you have I believe must be bought in-store, which requires both a store and a paid membership:

Qunol Mega CoQ10 100 mg., 120 Softgels

Puritan's Pride is the only brand I've ever used for Ubiquinol, but I plan to try these soon. Out of curiosity, how do most of you dose them? Do you split your dose for AM PM?
 

maldorf

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Nice find man! If you prefer to take it in 100mg doses, Costco actually offers another brand that is very affordable, 100mg @ 120 capsules. They go on sale every now and again, usually for around $28, but otherwise it's $35. Of course, the big benefit of these ones is that you can purchase them online...the link you have I believe must be bought in-store, which requires both a store and a paid membership:

Qunol Mega CoQ10 100 mg., 120 Softgels

Puritan's Pride is the only brand I've ever used for Ubiquinol, but I plan to try these soon. Out of curiosity, how do most of you dose them? Do you split your dose for AM PM?
I take a 200 mg cap in the morning when I wake up and then another 200 mg cap when I go to bed. I really hope the Costco brand is good quality. I have good luck with their multi vitamin I think. Funny thing is I don't know how I could truly know which Ubquinol is better. Perhaps there is a blood test the doctor could run. Doubt Ill ever go to that much trouble though. Next time I am at the doctor maybe I will ask. Would have to run it 2x, once for each supplement.
 

dragonfire101

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I use Puritan's pride too. My wife just found Ubquinol 200 mg caps at Costco her last trip. They sell it in a big bottle and its about 1/2 the price of Puritan Pride. I haven't used it yet but can report back on here when I do. Its going to be awhile though because I had just bought a big supply off of Puritans Pride, spent close to $200 on it, and that's going to take awhile to get through.

Kirkland Signature CoQ10 Ubiquinol 200 mg., 90 Softgels
I just got buy 2 get 4 free of puritins pride. That's why I have bunch their stuff now.
 

Js118

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I dont know how to save a post so I'm posting here so I can find it easier later
 

dragonfire101

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I take a 200 mg cap in the morning when I wake up and then another 200 mg cap when I go to bed. I really hope the Costco brand is good quality. I have good luck with their multi vitamin I think. Funny thing is I don't know how I could truly know which Ubquinol is better. Perhaps there is a blood test the doctor could run. Doubt Ill ever go to that much trouble though. Next time I am at the doctor maybe I will ask. Would have to run it 2x, once for each supplement.
It's Kaneka so it should be. I just find the one that cost the least per mg with Kaneka.
 

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