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before posting another cycle/drug thread please read this!

LK3

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I keep seeing so many of these crazy ideas about drugs and cycles and all of the obsessive thinking that is going into them, seems like a lot of you guys enjoy the mental masturbation of cycle planning over some good old fashion porn and going on about your day.

it is pretty simple to progress and add size on a regular basis and has been covered over and over and over again by vets telling everyone the same very simple things.

drugs are fun to talk about and what is most interesting to newB's but bb is really about training and eating!

yes drugs are an important part of the equation but recently people seem to be overcomplicating things to a silly degree.

I did a little searching here and could not find the original "cycles for pennies" thread that DC posted on animals site years back.

animal deleted anything about it on his board so I cant copy and past what I know is the original, I know someone that has the entire old board saved to disk but cant contact him right now.

a quick google search brought up something that looks pretty accurate.

so please if you haven't been doing this for real for 10-15 years, if your thinking about a 20 week cycle or if you want someone to critique your cycle take a few mins out of your day and read this thing.

a lot of the big guys that have been around for years have experience with this, and much of the terminology I see people using comes from this so please lets stop some of this insanity, get back to basics.

its a little long but worth every minute of your time.

Cycles for Pennies -- DoggCrapp (DC) Training

end of public service announcement.

:banghead:
 
Dante has said many, many times he wishes cycles for pennies just went away. He has stated that much of the information is outdated, however at the time was valid.

I understand what you are doing by posting a link that will help guys understand what they are doing better, but out of respect for Dante, I feel that it shouldn't be posted.

The back to basics concept needs to be emphasize, but I'm sure the last thing Dante wants people doing is bombing him with questions from something that he deems outdated.
 
Dante has said many, many times he wishes cycles for pennies just went away. He has stated that much of the information is outdated, however at the time was valid.



I understand what you are doing by posting a link that will help guys understand what they are doing better, but out of respect for Dante, I feel that it shouldn't be posted.



The back to basics concept needs to be emphasize, but I'm sure the last thing Dante wants people doing is bombing him with questions from something that he deems outdated.


Yea I remember Dante saying he doesn't like when it gets posted, not that mentalflex meant any harm by it.
 
Dante has said many, many times he wishes cycles for pennies just went away. He has stated that much of the information is outdated, however at the time was valid.

I understand what you are doing by posting a link that will help guys understand what they are doing better, but out of respect for Dante, I feel that it shouldn't be posted.

The back to basics concept needs to be emphasize, but I'm sure the last thing Dante wants people doing is bombing him with questions from something that he deems outdated.

well I understand that to some degree, the information is not really outdated, most of us have just continued to evolve but that's what this is all about.

I am in no way suggesting that cfp is the bible or that DC's methods here are something revolutionary, in fact quite the opposite. this is the basis of all successful training regimes. train, recover, train recover. that is what people are missing.

people have destroyed and bastardized every aspect of this which is part of where that wishing it would go away comes from, I almost never see anyone doing DC training the right way.

im not doing this as anything at all about DC.

think too, he is more of a business man now, this thread talks pretty openly about high level drug use, in his current spot that is not the kind of thing he probably wants to be associated with.

I read that thread from the beginning, ive been a member of animals site for about 15 years and I hired DC, most here have only read the aftermath or joined the party very late.

im not trying to promote DC or anything to do with him nor am I trying to get people to obsess over the actual intricacies of the training mentioned as pretty much everyone I have seen try and implement it does it wrong.

I simply trying to point out how much people are missing the point.

it seems as though you did too...

:banghead:
 
well I understand that to some degree, the information is not really outdated, most of us have just continued to evolve but that's what this is all about.



I am in no way suggesting that cfp is the bible or that DC's methods here are something revolutionary, in fact quite the opposite. this is the basis of all successful training regimes. train, recover, train recover. that is what people are missing.



people have destroyed and bastardized every aspect of this which is part of where that wishing it would go away comes from, I almost never see anyone doing DC training the right way.



im not doing this as anything at all about DC.



think too, he is more of a business man now, this thread talks pretty openly about high level drug use, in his current spot that is not the kind of thing he probably wants to be associated with.



I read that thread from the beginning, ive been a member of animals site for about 15 years and I hired DC, most here have only read the aftermath or joined the party very late.



im not trying to promote DC or anything to do with him nor am I trying to get people to obsess over the actual intricacies of the training mentioned as pretty much everyone I have seen try and implement it does it wrong.



I simply trying to point out how much people are missing the point.



it seems as though you did too...



:banghead:


And what point did I miss? I know your intentions were good, but a thread that also discusses high levels of drug use and other concepts COMBINED with the emphasis of getting back to basics can lead folks all over the place... Not intelligent folks, but the obsessive ones as you identified. I think a copy and paste of the pints you intended to come across would have served better.

Based on that above I think I understood your point pretty good
 
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You know what sucks the most about that beginning post or two in cycles of pennies......all anyone ever took from it was "2 grams"....it was really said in a hypothetical reasoning because I had seen some Southern California superheavyweights that had gone up to 2 grams of test at that time. I did...Im not going to lie about it.

My reasoning was this....there were guys on that board who were using a shitload of gear...and this went on for months and months and it was like they were taking huge chances trying to land some special compound because the shitload of gear they were using weren't turning them into the freaks they wanted to turn into. So I chimed in.... pretty much saying "there is no magical compound in east Bulgaria that is the so sought after secret you want"....if 2 grams of test don't do it for you....YOU DONT HAVE IT!!

Somehow that got diluted into "Dante recommends 2 grams of test"....no Im saying "if anyone goes up to high dosages of testosterone like I had seen some socal superheavyweights do.....and you still aren't freaking massive....TRUST me on this....there isn't a secret compound in Eastern Bulgaria that is keeping you away from massiveness.

Do you know what made peoples mouths drop in the 90's? 1500 mg of test was a freaking whopping dose....people were like "holy shit!" Most guys had stayed in the 750-1000 range so when people heard 1500-2000mg of testosterone.....we were like "Wow!" (myself included)

I could have easily said and been much more comfortable saying "if 1500mg of testosterone doesn't...." but the fact of the matter is People had gone up to 2 grams of test at that time, 3 KNOWN NAME bodybuilders on the East Coast had went up to 3 grams of test, and Titus was using 5000mg plus of Test in the 90's at time (along with a kitchen sink of other things).... so I was being truthful.....I don't know any other way I could have stated it back then....it was what it was. Do you know that the 3 bodybuilders from the East Coast who were up over 3 grams of test to gain size (two of them are dead now..heart attacks..in their 40's).....one is still alive and actually I saw him post on facebook today...but he got out of the bbing game long ago.

Back in the 90's when gh was 120 dollars for 4ius and the biggest dose anyone was using was 6ius because it was so insanely expensive I would have said "if 6ius of gh doesn't do this for you, then....." but today???? I would not be able to lie.....some guys on this very board have gone up to 20ius of gh....I would have to say "if 20ius of gh doesn't do it for you then......"

I sure aint recommending 20ius of gh that's for sure.

That's why I get upset at that cycles for pennies thread.....it was in direct response to a bunch of guys who in my mind were abusing the hell out of themselves and "still thought there was some secret compound out there" that they weren't using that would have brought them glory and happiness
 
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What I still believe in strongly...

That kind of hardcore progressive training.

Blasting and cruising although I have different ideas about it now (and sending signals to your HPTA at specific times) for people who stay on and/or are advanced bodybuilders.

Trying to get as big as possible (if that is the goal) with training and food with the least amount of juice you have to use to accomplish that goal....so when you actually have to step on the gas hard to push past plateaus or edge forward and beat everyone....it destroys everyone (or breaks thru plateaus).

People tend to forget where certain ideas came from but you see a boatload of ideas that I put forth in the 90's and early 2000's used today and they are commonplace..... Im not trying to give myself a pat on the back but sometimes it pains me when I see an article or advice someone throws at someone else and I knew it came directly from me. I saw this recently in a big online article where I called my wife in my room and said "look at this"....and showed her what the guy was recommending and then went back to 1999 and showed her "that's where I originally said it"....she asked "well did he tell people it came from you?" ...I said "no big deal"

Years ago on this very board myself and Dusty Hanshaw pushed an idea forward and we caught major major shit about it.......no one fucking believed it...and still don't. But all you have to see is people such as the Mr Olympia who looks smaller and softer in the offseason, and others that weigh hypotheticaly 285 in the offseason and then go into precontest and end up onstage at 272 pounds....and its the same freaking idea....how do they do that? how do they lose 13 pounds and get bigger? But nobody believed it....and its being done repeatedly in the pro ranks now. Not by everyone but some really smart guys. How does Phil Heath look smoother and smaller in the offseason....then starts getting ready and he gets bigger and bigger and freakier and freaker til he ends up in the MR Olympia sometimes 14-25lbs less than he was in the offseason? Don't take my word for it...you don't believe it anyway....figure it out in your head.
 
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The main thing the internet has done is created an access and ability to afford ergo aids.

Another thing people forget bigtime nowadays is that pre 1997...there wasn't an internet where things were available....a click of a button away....people used what you could afford and what was available which in some cases wasn't much. Hell a remember a former top shelf top 10 all time bodybuilder who wasn't competing and people were asking him why and he didn't have access to things in his area at the time (same area I was from).

I remember thinking when I heard 2 grams of testosterone used by socal superheavyweights back in the day...."Christ Ive never been over 1000mg....I guess that's eventually where Im going to have to go".... because it seemed that's what the Jones's were doing and back then I was getting ready for the superheavyweight classes at diff shows. It was a depressing thought for me.

I am personally glad I said "screw the peer pressure, Im staying where im at"

Now you got 21 year old kids using 13 grams a week...its just unfathomable to me.
 
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In the local gyms in the 80's. You see the local gym guys compete. It was very rare that anyone went over 1000 MG total. They also didn't do this all year, we got off equal amounts that were on. Cycles were ran 8 to 10 weeks mostly. Most DIETs for shows were 8 weeks to 12 weeks. The insanity has been increasing over the years. The bubble will burst and most won't realize that before it is too late. Typical cycle in a local gym for most guys I knew was 1 shot of each, deca or Equipoise and test. Maybe throw in an oral of Dball at 30 Mg or 1 anadrol. It was rare anyone got GH. Insulin was out of the picture all together. We got pharmacy at that time too.
 
And what point did I miss? I know your intentions were good, but a thread that also discusses high levels of drug use and other concepts COMBINED with the emphasis of getting back to basics can lead folks all over the place... Not intelligent folks, but the obsessive ones as you identified. I think a copy and paste of the pints you intended to come across would have served better.

Based on that above I think I understood your point pretty good

the point im trying to make is that that post and what DC was saying is how most effective training works.

those methods are just an example, a nicely written one too.

im glad DC chimed in a little too, pointing out the ridiculousness of doses these days. it all goes hand in hand.

most of these guys posting the drug stuff have no foundation, they never got to the point of squatting 400-500lbs natty, they don't have 5-10 years of real training natty, they never put the work in and expect the results of those that have.

I think the best things I learned from DC were those, eat, train, recover, keep your health as a priority. that is the real point of cfp to me.

none of the guy reading this are anywhere near the size DC was when writing that, if you aren't leanish and well well over 200lbs what the hell are you doing even thinking of 2gs of gear? those doses were writing for guys who were 250-300.

again all that goes into the misunderstandings that I was talking about.
 
The way I understand it is kinda like the same way as there's no point eating 7000 calories a day if your caloric maintenance is 3000. The excess is just wasted (bodyfat) or in the case of steroids side effects. My definition of insanity is a 180lb kid taking 1000mgs of tren a week (in addition to everything else obv). My first cycle was 3 pink thai dianabols/day (15mgs total/day) and I grew like a weed. As the lbm increases I do think the dosage has to as well to a degree but many have long past the point of diminishing returns.
 
the point im trying to make is that that post and what DC was saying is how most effective training works.



those methods are just an example, a nicely written one too.



im glad DC chimed in a little too, pointing out the ridiculousness of doses these days. it all goes hand in hand.



most of these guys posting the drug stuff have no foundation, they never got to the point of squatting 400-500lbs natty, they don't have 5-10 years of real training natty, they never put the work in and expect the results of those that have.



I think the best things I learned from DC were those, eat, train, recover, keep your health as a priority. that is the real point of cfp to me.



none of the guy reading this are anywhere near the size DC was when writing that, if you aren't leanish and well well over 200lbs what the hell are you doing even thinking of 2gs of gear? those doses were writing for guys who were 250-300.



again all that goes into the misunderstandings that I was talking about.


Ok, so I didn't miss any point at all. That's what I thought
 

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