Beginner Cycle - Opinons?

[pete84]

Hi All,

I am preparing for my first cycle and wanted to ge some advice. Being my first I have decided to use go for DBol (and Nolvadex) and keep the cycle short (6 weeks).

Week DBol Nolv
1 15mg 20mg
2 30mg 20mg
3 45mg 20mg
4 45mg 20mg
5 30mg 20mg
6 15mg 20mg

I will also be taking Milk Thistle to help out the liver every day (not sure about mg yet), if anyone has an idea let me know.

My objectives are to gain some growth (not too woried about how much); being the first cycle I am more interested in understanding how DBol affects me.

What are peoples thoughts on the above, is it too short? Do they think it's a worthwhile first go? Do you think it will give me a good feel for Dbol? What sort of growth should I expect?

I have read some of the other threads (and Mick Hart's Laymans guide) and have got a lot of info out of both - Thanks all!

I wanted to get an opinion on the cycle I have decided to do.

Thanks,
Pete

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Hi All,

I am preparing for my first cycle and wanted to ge some advice. Being my first I have decided to use go for DBol (and Nolvadex) and keep the cycle short (6 weeks).

Week DBol Nolv
1 15mg 20mg
2 30mg 20mg
3 45mg 20mg
4 45mg 20mg
5 30mg 20mg
6 15mg 20mg

I will also be taking Milk Thistle to help out the liver every day (not sure about mg yet), if anyone has an idea let me know.

My objectives are to gain some growth (not too woried about how much); being the first cycle I am more interested in understanding how DBol affects me.

What are peoples thoughts on the above, is it too short? Do they think it's a worthwhile first go? Do you think it will give me a good feel for Dbol? What sort of growth should I expect?

I have read some of the other threads (and Mick Hart's Laymans guide) and have got a lot of info out of both - Thanks all!

I wanted to get an opinion on the cycle I have decided to do.

Thanks,
Pete

Pete, this is a bad first cycle. Please read some more threads here about first cycles and you will have a much better idea of what is and what is not working for people. We cannot design a cycle for you but surely you will find enough information here to design one yourself with your doctor's supervision. Play it safe, bud.

 

[pete84]

Pete, this is a bad first cycle. Please read some more threads here about first cycles and you will have a much better idea of what is and what is not working for people. We cannot design a cycle for you but surely you will find enough information here to design one yourself with your doctor's supervision. Play it safe, bud.

Hi Ouch,

Thanks for the feedback, have got a few comments regarding mgs (will do some reading and postback soon).

Cheers,
Pete

 

[tkav1980]

never for get the K.I.S.S. rule. it especially applies here.
Keep
It
Simple
Stupid.

not caling you stupid, just saying read, read ,read, and stay as basic as you can for as long as you can. get blood work done in the mean time. thatll give you some time todo the research. and if you have trouble reading the results of the bloodwork post them here, theres alot of guys that can help you understand it better.

 

[deltaguy]

Personally I'd throw about 300 mg's of test e a week on that cycle, keep with the nolvadex every day if you have to, it will cut all estrogen though meaning youll have less GH, the dbol dose imo is alright, maybe clomid post cycle. 200 mg of milk thistle a day is a standard dose for liver protection, not sure about how well itll protect against the dbol

Just so you do not confuse anyone here....

Tamoxifen is not an anti-estrogen as you may suggest. It is actually a SERM.

SERMs (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators)

SERMs, or selective estrogen-receptor modulators, block the action of estrogen in the breast and certain other tissues by occupying estrogen receptors inside cells.

With a SERM sitting in the estrogen receptor, there is no place for the real estrogen to "sit down" — like a game of musical chairs. The SERM blocks the more powerful estrogen signals from getting into the estrogen receptor and telling the cell to grow and spread.

SERMs do not affect all estrogen receptors in the same way, because, as the name states, they are "selective":

* SERMs block (or selectively inhibit) estrogen receptors in breast cells. Therefore, cells don't get the signals they need to grow and multiply.
* SERMs stimulate estrogen receptors in other organs, with good and bad results. For example, the SERM tamoxifen:
o stimulates liver cells, lowering cholesterol levels
o stimulates bone cells, resulting in stronger bones and reduced risk of bone breaks
o stimulates growth of uterine cells (cells in the uterus), slightly increasing the risk of uterine cancer

A SERM may also weakly stop the formation of new blood vessels that supply the nutrients the cancer needs to grow. (This is called an "anti-angiogenic" effect.) Although this action would never be enough to stop making all new blood vessels, it may starve some cancer cells, which need extra blood vessels to grow.

As long as a SERM is sitting inside all the estrogen receptors, the cancer cells remain quiet and relatively harmless. After a long period of not being stimulated, the cancer cells may die off. SERMs may even cause breast cancer cells to destroy themselves, a process called "apoptosis," or programmed cell death.

There are three SERMs, each usually taken once a day by pill:

* The most prescribed SERM is tamoxifen (the brand name is Nolvadex, but it's also now a generic drug called tamoxifen citrate).
* Evista (chemical name: raloxifene) hasn't been used to treat women with breast cancer. But Evista does lower the risk of breast cancer in post-menopausal women who take it to treat osteoporosis. Evista also is as effective as tamoxifen in reducing the risk of breast cancer in post-menopausal women at increased risk but with no personal history of the disease.
* The third SERM, Fareston (chemical name: toremifene), is relatively new and not often used in the United States.

 

[deltaguy]

Oops... I actually meant to write it is not an estrogen killer not that is not an anti-estrogen. Just wanted to make sure people didn't think it would cut all estrogen in your system as you originally wrote.

 

[deltaguy]

clear as........................ mud

 

[Big Bapper]

Just so you do not confuse anyone here....

Tamoxifen is not an anti-estrogen as you may suggest. It is actually a SERM.

SERMs (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators)

SERMs, or selective estrogen-receptor modulators, block the action of estrogen in the breast and certain other tissues by occupying estrogen receptors inside cells.

With a SERM sitting in the estrogen receptor, there is no place for the real estrogen to "sit down" — like a game of musical chairs. The SERM blocks the more powerful estrogen signals from getting into the estrogen receptor and telling the cell to grow and spread.

SERMs do not affect all estrogen receptors in the same way, because, as the name states, they are "selective":

* SERMs block (or selectively inhibit) estrogen receptors in breast cells. Therefore, cells don't get the signals they need to grow and multiply.
* SERMs stimulate estrogen receptors in other organs, with good and bad results. For example, the SERM tamoxifen:
o stimulates liver cells, lowering cholesterol levels
o stimulates bone cells, resulting in stronger bones and reduced risk of bone breaks
o stimulates growth of uterine cells (cells in the uterus), slightly increasing the risk of uterine cancer

A SERM may also weakly stop the formation of new blood vessels that supply the nutrients the cancer needs to grow. (This is called an "anti-angiogenic" effect.) Although this action would never be enough to stop making all new blood vessels, it may starve some cancer cells, which need extra blood vessels to grow.

As long as a SERM is sitting inside all the estrogen receptors, the cancer cells remain quiet and relatively harmless. After a long period of not being stimulated, the cancer cells may die off. SERMs may even cause breast cancer cells to destroy themselves, a process called "apoptosis," or programmed cell death.

There are three SERMs, each usually taken once a day by pill:

* The most prescribed SERM is tamoxifen (the brand name is Nolvadex, but it's also now a generic drug called tamoxifen citrate).
* Evista (chemical name: raloxifene) hasn't been used to treat women with breast cancer. But Evista does lower the risk of breast cancer in post-menopausal women who take it to treat osteoporosis. Evista also is as effective as tamoxifen in reducing the risk of breast cancer in post-menopausal women at increased risk but with no personal history of the disease.
* The third SERM, Fareston (chemical name: toremifene), is relatively new and not often used in the United States.

Nice post Bro and thanks for correcting yourself, mastakes are easy made. Its great to see everyone getting on with each other and helping each other out down here.
Respect.

 

[pete84]

All,

Thanks for all the posts, the info is great. Helps a lot! Deltaguy, cheers heaps for the info on Nolva - you explained something other sites did in MANY pages. My main reason for using it is to minimise the risk some of the side (ie. gyno, water retention, etc).

I wanted to also add to my earlier post (I originally tried to be brief as to avoid an essay style thread but noticed I may have missed some vital info).

Firstly - Why Oral? This is predominantly due to availability, due to my locale it is very difficult to obtain 'reliable' injectables. I am limited to a number of oral products. After extensive reading I have decided to choose Dbol, it seems to be one of the oldest and there is a lot of info available on it. I am planning to concentrate my research on it.

I know there are some other orals available which produce gains which are easier to retain and result in less water retention and bloating, however, there is overall slightly less info on these and less posts detailing first hand experience of them.

Now there are so many contradicting opinons on the topic of 'oral only cycles' - some people think they're good, other do not. I think this has been done to death on both this and other forums and don't want this to turn into a discussion about that (hope this doesn't offend anyone).

Dosage: Again there is much debate on this topic - I am going to do more research and post back. I am thinking of changing the weekly amounts to 10, 20, 30, 30, 20, 10. Either way, more research...

Liver Protection: Milk Thistle is just thing I intend to use. I know Dbol does 'wonders' to the liver. As a result I am planning to have regular blood tests to monitor liver values. Also planning on a clean, diet - strictly no alcohol, toxins, etc.

I want to also note that this is still a work in progress (may not have been clear above). Not planning to do anything for many months - much more reading to do. Just wanted to hear more of peoples own experience on Dbol. There are a lot of posts on Dbol, but often these relate to it stacked with other AASs.

PCT: Still researching. This is difficult. Not much discussion about PCT and oral only cycles. Will just keep up the reading.



Hopefuly this adds to my original post and supplies some more info. I agree I have a lot more reading to go. Not after advice regarding what to add to the cycle just some info on peoples own experience, what worked, what didn't etc - specifically related to Dbol.

Either way, all posts are appreciated.

Thanks again,
Pete

 

[drob29]

All,

Firstly - Why Oral? This is predominantly due to availability, due to my locale it is very difficult to obtain 'reliable' injectables. way, all posts are appreciated.

One thought Pete, unless your in New Zealand or Australia, there is a board sponsor (alin) who has a great line of stealth injectables as well as a host of other injectables. So that would take care of the "reliable" inject issue.

I honestly dont believe you will get much support for the dbol only cycle here. You need to replace your test production with synthetic test on cycle in order to build sustainable gains. dbol can provide quick size and strength gains through adding water and volumizing your muscle fiber, but for long term muscle growth (size you'll keep a month after PCT ends) then test is a must.

Also that up and down taper of the dbol dose makes no sense. If your going to do that cycle (again, I dont recommend it) run the same dose throughout. And skip the milk thistle and get some sythergine.

Others will chime in I'm sure. Best of luck Pete.

 

[deltaguy]

I agree with most peeps that a dbol only cycle is a bit uncommon. I won't bash anyone for trying the cycle because I recall there has been some people who claim that they made (and kept) decent gains from them.

That being said (written) I know exactly the book and page you grabbed this cycle from. Although it is a good read, I am skeptic of the source on some of his opinions. Two are simply that I think that 45mgs ed is a little much for a first cycle of dbol only and the roller coaster of the changes in the dose.

My first cycle was test only. My second cycle was test and dbol (20mgs ed) and my gains were pretty freaking stellar. Even after 15 yrs I still do not go above 30mgs ed and I always have great results. I understand the addition of Nolvadex on this cycle as it will help increase your natural test (thereby MAYBE eliminating the need for adding test this time around) BUT...... as some people have said here... there are too many good sources on this board to claim your only reason for choosing an oral only cycle is the availability of oils.

I appreciate that you acknowledge that this is still work in progress as it shows you are open to people's input and are mature enough to realize that you do not know everything about this lifestyle. Keep an open mind about the oil though. I think you will be happier in the end.

 

[deltaguy]

Nice post Bro and thanks for correcting yourself, mastakes are easy made. Its great to see everyone getting on with each other and helping each other out down here.
Respect.

Thanks BB. I learned from some of the best and nicest peeps on this board.

 

[Big Bapper]

That's what I like to here, on a board like this you wont go far wrong. There are allot of good guys.