Ben Pollack's Mountain of Doggcrapp

[TheOtherOne55]

I thought this was worth discussing as I've been working on a similar setup and program for the past 2 years myself.
Basically, Ben is a big strong dude—but he has weaknesses just like every other BBer. So what he's done is mixed some training philosophies as a way to reap the benefits. We know that heavy progressive overload works well. We also know that sarcoplasmic pump training works well too. So how can we build both into 1 training program?

Ben has taken some of Dante's base principles as well as John's and made a hybrid mix. Looks interesting.
BOTH Ben and I have the same weaknesses and its probably from my PLing background too lol
Barrel chest and large back, but shoulders and arms lag behind. Loading the side delts and biceps don't work at all for me. I do have some success with loading my Tris though. But as a way to give some new stimulus, I've hit them completely differently than I train any other part of my body. Hard pump stuff, short rest period, more volume.

I don't follow this exact program (mine is more of a hybrid of Jordan Peter's + some of JM's stuff) but it's definitely worth a watch. I trust Ben's brain, very smart dude.

 

[Reno911]

I really enjoy watching Ben's stuff. It'll be interesting to see what Shelby can do with him this contest year. I do wonder if he'll be able to keep his waist tight with all the extremely heavy squatting and deadlifting. For those that are unaware of his poundages they are NOT him squatting 405x10.

 

[Needmassquick]

Wonder if DC will like this or hate that it's tampering with his system

 

[Needmassquick]

I have a feeling JM will like it

 

[b-boy]

My current train of thought toward training is exactly as Branden Ray's

 

[TheOtherOne55]

"I was also drifting away from the muscle I was targeting..."

I like Brandon Ray and I totally understand what he's talking about.
But lines like this make me realize that there are several high level BBers who stillll don't understand basic progressive overload. They put it in a box with PLing. We are not talking about powerlifting here.
We aren't trying to move weight from point A to point B.
The same form that you use 225 on to pump up your chest, is the same form you use on 405 to get it for reps.
You are forcing that target muscle, through stimulus, to adapt and grow. You arent asking your triceps to make it easier just so you get an extra rep. You aren't sacrificing anything. Dusty and JP are the guys who understand this most. Form form form...and then there's no reason or excuse why adding weight doesn't work. The only point I am in agreement with is joint integrity...that is a real thing. But we've heard Dante explain that upping rep ranges help this tremendously. Hell, at a certain point in time, your pump workout weight will hurt your shoulders....you have to make changes.

I think a lot of guys will chime in and say that they don't want to look like Dusty and JP haha. They'll say that that right there is the reason why this slow progressive stuff isn't the best, because you look like a tank. But hard and heavy didn't give them that physique. They were born with ...and they realized that 4 sets of 15 pump stuff wasn't doing the same thing to their regular old white guy physiques as they thought it would. Time for a new stimulus.

apologies for going off on a tanget, i just here too many people who barely understand the concept and poopoo it for all the wrong reasons. IMO, the only argument for not progressively getting stronger is, "well ______ body part doesn't seem to respond to this." Which is exactly what Ben is doing with this program.

 

[11111]

Very well said, TOO55! SO many people confuse this.....

 

[madg]

Ben is great man , really strong and smart

Theotherone i have a suggestion to you for your arms and delts

Try it before you dismiss it please ,i think you will be happy

For delts and arms , pick a weight you can do for 20 reps and do instead 5 sets of 12 with 1 min rest between sets and train both delts and arms 2x week

Since you are moving heavy weight on chest and back is no need to load also delts and arms

This is my opinion and i think it will work for you given your background

I know you propably hate this kind of training but training is just a tool to use to get the result you want

I believe your delts and arms will blow up not that they are small now lol you are huge

What i mean is for them to blow up for your frame

Hope you understand what i mean

Respect

 

[madg]

Agree with TOO55 spot on

Shape is genetic , even if they trained for pump they would look the same at that weight

I cant train heavy , my joints get beat up , i have small joint that why i evolved to my style

I respect greatly guys like dusty and JP that move that kind of weight

I believe in progresive overload but i use it diferently cause if i kept uping weight all time my joint couldnt take it
So i start lets say 100 kg bench x 5 x 12 reps with 2 min rest and work rest down to 30 sec over weeks .. this also progressive overload, corect ?

 

[weedle]

Do you know if he has a podcast on ITunes?

 

[Ben Pollack]

Hey guys, and thank you for sharing TheOtherOne!

For the record... I love to tinker with stuff, and in theory, I think this program would work okay if diet and sleep were perfect and the lifter were using a good amount of gear. However, I am NOT doing this routine -- Shelby is doing my diet and Joe Bennett is doing my training -- and I do not recommend it unless you just want to have fun. I'd instead encourage everyone to use a more cohesive system like DC or the MD programs as laid out. When I'm not in prep, I plan to experiment with this some more and see if I can get it polished enough for popular use, but it's just not there yet.

As an aside... when I was starting out (twenty years ago, lol) it was definitely my dream to be in a situation where I could do stuff like this, so I'm really grateful people find it interesting.

And god I hope Shelby keeps me on after this prep He's been freaking incredible so far -- never had a coach willing to help me with posing at 5:30 in the morning. I'm really grateful for his guidance as well.

 

[Ben Pollack]

Do you know if he has a podcast on ITunes?

I don't, yet. I'm moving to Vegas this summer to live with my training partner and Joe Sullivan (ATWR powerlifter) and hopefully train at Flex's new place, so we plan to start one then.

 

[juggy38]

Ben is great man , really strong and smart

Theotherone i have a suggestion to you for your arms and delts

Try it before you dismiss it please ,i think you will be happy

For delts and arms , pick a weight you can do for 20 reps and do instead 5 sets of 12 with 1 min rest between sets and train both delts and arms 2x week

Since you are moving heavy weight on chest and back is no need to load also delts and arms

This is my opinion and i think it will work for you given your background

I know you propably hate this kind of training but training is just a tool to use to get the result you want

I believe your delts and arms will blow up not that they are small now lol you are huge

What i mean is for them to blow up for your frame

Hope you understand what i mean

Respect

How do you set up a weekly split with arms 2x without messing up back and pressing days?

 

[weedle]

I don't, yet. I'm moving to Vegas this summer to live with my training partner and Joe Sullivan (ATWR powerlifter) and hopefully train at Flex's new place, so we plan to start one then.

Nice, thanks. I drive a lot so podcasts are my best friends.
Let us know when you get it up and running.

 

[xpoc]

I love the principle of progressive overload. It seems so logical. Unfortunately, I stall out very quickly on exercises. I saw Jordan Peters talk about progressing on an exercise for months. Hats off to him for being able to do that. I usually find I tap out after about 3-4 sessions. For example I might take incline smith 275x8+3+1 (12) the first go around. Then get 13-14 the second. The third time I might get 15. But the fourth time I might drop back to 14 or be lucky to stay at 15. Once I stall, I will reset the book and move into a higher rep range (drop to say, 225x18+5+3=26), but within 2-3 weeks I am stalled again. The only way to squeak out more reps is the "cheat" and use some body english or rest a bit longer on my RP sets.

I am a TRT guy, so my hormone levels are always the same. And I have been lifting stead since 1984 so I am guessing I have met my genetic peak. But the idea of progressing on the same exercise for 10+ sessions seems absolutely impossible at my age regardless of rep range.

 

[Glory4God]

I've been doing a hybrid of rest/pause training with clusters/dropsets on my intensity exercises, but then going into moderate volume and more reps. Really loving this style , especially with rest/pause. You can go heavier , but also get in volume. A heavy set you fail at 4-6 , you may rep another 3-5 for the second cluster and then around 2-4 for the third which goes into a dropset. So, you're getting a blend of heavy weight and volume.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

I love the principle of progressive overload. It seems so logical. Unfortunately, I stall out very quickly on exercises. I saw Jordan Peters talk about progressing on an exercise for months. Hats off to him for being able to do that. I usually find I tap out after about 3-4 sessions. For example I might take incline smith 275x8+3+1 (12) the first go around. Then get 13-14 the second. The third time I might get 15. But the fourth time I might drop back to 14 or be lucky to stay at 15. Once I stall, I will reset the book and move into a higher rep range (drop to say, 225x18+5+3=26), but within 2-3 weeks I am stalled again. The only way to squeak out more reps is the "cheat" and use some body english or rest a bit longer on my RP sets.

I am a TRT guy, so my hormone levels are always the same. And I have been lifting stead since 1984 so I am guessing I have met my genetic peak. But the idea of progressing on the same exercise for 10+ sessions seems absolutely impossible at my age regardless of rep range.

X, have you tried Jordan Peters approach?
What's weird is that I would plateau much more on DC training. But on Jordan's approach, i can go loooong periods of continually beating log book stuff. Strange i know. It is microloading, but its progress.
For whatever reason I can hype myself up for one failure set pretty easy. But when its three consecutive ones, stuff gets wonky. Even running DC (which i haven't in years), i juuust focused on that first set to failure. If i beat my reps there, I'm all good.

I also think that the older I've gotten the more I had to realize that if I want to log stuff, i need to be accurate and accountable in my sleep and nutrition too. I cant have a shit night and then expect to be prepared to rep 405 on incline bench.

 

[Glory4God]

I know DC is based on rest/pause which is why I mention, but its way too low volume to be effective imo. So , this method seems ideal

Mentzer's HIT seems very effective with low volume, but idk if most people don't do it correctly

 

[madg]

How do you set up a weekly split with arms 2x without messing up back and pressing days?

Chest + tris
Back+ bis
Legs
Delts
Arms

If you do the arm workout as i say it will not hinder your pulling and pressing

 

[USMuscle9403]

Awesome thread. I love seeing how advanced guys tweak different programs, especially DC, JM and JP methods; I've followed those guys for years and it turns out my training tends to gravitate towards high intensity but a bit more moderate volume. The only criticism of DC is that at it's most basic level, it can get a bit boring