bench press

[mitochondria]

ya regarding people who do more than they ca handle i seen this guy put 395 on the bar i watched cuz i did not think he could put it up, he had a spot, well it ended up being the guy benching with a serious spot the whole time, the spotter was more less getting a shrug workout the whole one rep, like 60 % bencher and 40 % the shruger, i said thats not a spot thats teamwork lol, stupidesit shit i saw, i wanted to say somthing but i try to keep things to my self u know, what would be more funny if he had like 600 on the bar and had a shrugger and 2 other shruggers on each side of the bar, like come on lets be real here, too big of heads for their body, its weird but i see this more commmonly with some older guys like maybe 40's and up, maybe they still wana feel the way they use to

 

[shawnkarbabacz]

Sorry bro not ingnorant or clueless. I been around this for a very long time(22 years). Yes there is a reason that some are doing partials but the ones that im refering to don't have a clue and don't now the first thing about training. I personaly believe in full range of motion. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but all you've said now is that people are clue less. If you have an opinion then put some info down. Maybe it would shed a new light that could help peolpe that are new to this. Not trying to be disrespectful.

Yeah im still not sure what the point of his posts are if hes not gonna say what we are being ignorant or clueless about. Ive read some of his stuff in other threads and it was informative. Seems like hes just trying to get a rise on this thread or something.

 

[Flex2019]

I've had shoulder issues for most of my life and haven't been able to bring a bar all the way down to my chest in years. My chest development hasn't suffered because of it, and I find (as others have stated) that once my arms are bent more than 90 degrees my shoulders take over anyway. It amazes me how many people think that the bar needs to come all the way down. Just about every chest workout I have somebody come up to me and ask me why I don't touch the bar to my chest. They'll find out in a few years when they've all got rotator cuff issues.

 

[tenny]

Yeah im still not sure what the point of his posts are if hes not gonna say what we are being ignorant or clueless about. Ive read some of his stuff in other threads and it was informative. Seems like hes just trying to get a rise on this thread or something.

by the end of this thread

i wont need to say a word

 

[maldorf]

I've had shoulder issues for most of my life and haven't been able to bring a bar all the way down to my chest in years. My chest development hasn't suffered because of it, and I find (as others have stated) that once my arms are bent more than 90 degrees my shoulders take over anyway. It amazes me how many people think that the bar needs to come all the way down. Just about every chest workout I have somebody come up to me and ask me why I don't touch the bar to my chest. They'll find out in a few years when they've all got rotator cuff issues.

Yep. Well, just let those full range people continue to do their thing and see how those rotator cuffs are doing 10-15 yrs from now. Maybe some are lucky and anatomically they are built to withstand this kind of punishment, I dont know. All I know is that myself and many others all share the fact that going all the way down and touching your chest caused rotator cuff problems and more.

 

[shawnkarbabacz]

Well i guess the guys question was answered from every angle possible. Im not pretending to know half as much as most of the guys on this board, but what i DO KNOW is what tenny and mal are refering too, is NOT what i see at my gym when guys are not going all the way down. They do NOT make it to 90 degrees and they do have a spotter yanking on the weight for them.

Obviously the shoulder issue is what tenny was refering too (i gotta assume) and i see the warrant fully. Personally i dont know why he couldnt just say that to begin with like a couple other guys did, but reading alot on this board i guess its easy to just say 'F it' when you consider somebody saying something ignorant.

All that being said, i still PERSONALLY prefer the full range. As of now ive never had any shoulder problems, so it hasnt been an issue. I do however have back issues, so i usually stay away from ground DL's, and stick to racks. That doesnt mean i would say someones stupid for doing ground DL's though.

Anyways, this thread has been educational to me as well. Ill definitely keep in mind the shoulder issue as my training progresses.

 

[jakobe]

I would go down to the point where your upper arm about forms a 90 degree angle with your chest. If you take your elbows down too far it will shift most of the stress onto your shoulders and that's how I used to get overtrained/strained rotator cuff. Once I stopped going past that and touching my chest, my shoulder pain was gone.

Same way I have always done it. I don't like the shoulder stress that I feel when I go past the 90 degrees. To me it seems counterproductive to go all the way down to the chest. Plus, sloppy form and unnecessary stress can lead to shoulder injuries.

 

[microcentillion]

Actually, I have a question that would fit within the realm of this thread.

Decline bench press - At the Gold's I go to, the Decline Benches don't have variable lengths for the leg pad. I am really tall, so I find myself putting a lot of effort into avoiding the racks during my lift: contracting my hamstrings, clenching my lower back, aiming the weight lower on my chest and sometimes depending on the weight 'crunching' upwards with my shoulder-blades off the pad. In general, being forced to use terrible form due to the bench being designed for someone shorter than me. Any suggestions for what I can do about this? Will aiming too low cause it to become a Tricep workout? What do I risk injuring?

FYI: They also have no stand-alone decline/variable benches. Pain in my ass.

 

[alecaf]

if you dont know.....then why comment???
you just make yourself sound like an idiot

you can chime in now god

 

[grimstat]

well thanks for all the input. I thought like a few said it was people trying to empress each other, but I wasnt sure and wanted to know if there was an advantage of doing Quote half ones. So Tenny would you now give me your input, and I didnt mean to cause a fight over this.

 

[tenny]

the truth is......theres way too many factors to answer this question

but to say that anything but full range is mostly "ego lifts"
is ignorant and clueless

first, lets start with close grip
what is the proper range here??
what is the main objective??
what part of the movement are tris involved???
at the bottom??? at the top???
how close of a grip do you need to be a true close grip??

lets talk dumbbell presses
what is a "full range" dumbbell press???
all the way down to clanking them at the top????
whats the purpose of touching dumbbells??
for me to effectively hit my chest i need to do
a cross between a press and a fly with bells
and how far down can you really bring them before delts take over
and how far up can you go before tris take over
you cant effectively take these muscle out of the movement..
but.....you can lessen the work load of these muscle groups

lets talk injurys.....which maldorf already touched on
now for your nobody weight trainer who works out from jan to april
for spring and summer and never see them again til next year
yes these people need to "ego lift" in order for them to justify there
short time spent in the gym

but....to us hardcore dont give shit and dont even know what time of
the year it is lifters.... we dont care about what anyone thinks
its all about longivity and staying injury free

those of us that have had setbacks (injurys) know what im talking about


bottom line is

you HAVE all seen ego lifts, but can you tell the difference between
someone whose ego lifting and someone whose years and years of experience
taught them to effectively and safely target the muscle group that they want to target??

and shawn......i normally keep my mouth shut, but i read your posts
and i like you and your learning, so this is why i confronted you about it
dont end up like so many before you and think that you can comment
on shit when you have NO CLUE what your talking about

and who gives a hot steamy shit about what others are doing in the gym
i see alot of posts lately about this guy and that duche bag
who cares....do what YOU need to do

 

[grimstat]

O.K. makes sense cause when I d/b press, I bring them real far. By the time I'm done my shoulders are all pumped up. So I guess if I don't bring them down so far I'll concentrate more on chest and a little tri's. thanks guys

 

[jetset]

the truth is......theres way too many factors to answer this question

but to say that anything but full range is mostly "ego lifts"
is ignorant and clueless
first, lets start with close grip
what is the proper range here??
what is the main objective??
what part of the movement are tris involved???
at the bottom??? at the top???
how close of a grip do you need to be a true close grip??

lets talk dumbbell presses
what is a "full range" dumbbell press???
all the way down to clanking them at the top????
whats the purpose of touching dumbbells??
for me to effectively hit my chest i need to do
a cross between a press and a fly with bells
and how far down can you really bring them before delts take over
and how far up can you go before tris take over
you cant effectively take these muscle out of the movement..
but.....you can lessen the work load of these muscle groups

lets talk injurys.....which maldorf already touched on
now for your nobody weight trainer who works out from jan to april
for spring and summer and never see them again til next year
yes these people need to "ego lift" in order for them to justify there
short time spent in the gym

but....to us hardcore dont give shit and dont even know what time of
the year it is lifters.... we dont care about what anyone thinks
its all about longivity and staying injury free

those of us that have had setbacks (injurys) know what im talking about


bottom line is

you HAVE all seen ego lifts, but can you tell the difference between
someone whose ego lifting and someone whose years and years of experience
taught them to effectively and safely target the muscle group that they want to target??

and shawn......i normally keep my mouth shut, but i read your posts
and i like you and your learning, so this is why i confronted you about it
dont end up like so many before you and think that you can comment
on shit when you have NO CLUE what your talking about

and who gives a hot steamy shit about what others are doing in the gym
i see alot of posts lately about this guy and that duche bag
who cares....do what YOU need to do

Bro I never said that anything but a full range is an ego lift. I meant the guys i have seen over the years and in the gym now(most guys) are not doing partials or using different ranges for the right reasons. That was all. Yes I believe in full range of motion for myself but like you said what exactly is full range. It will very for everyone. And everyone one is going to say something different. I agree with what you said above. I have nothing but respect for you bro.

 

[maldorf]

the truth is......theres way too many factors to answer this question

but to say that anything but full range is mostly "ego lifts"
is ignorant and clueless

first, lets start with close grip
what is the proper range here??
what is the main objective??
what part of the movement are tris involved???
at the bottom??? at the top???
how close of a grip do you need to be a true close grip??

lets talk dumbbell presses
what is a "full range" dumbbell press???
all the way down to clanking them at the top????
whats the purpose of touching dumbbells??
for me to effectively hit my chest i need to do
a cross between a press and a fly with bells
and how far down can you really bring them before delts take over
and how far up can you go before tris take over
you cant effectively take these muscle out of the movement..
but.....you can lessen the work load of these muscle groups

lets talk injurys.....which maldorf already touched on
now for your nobody weight trainer who works out from jan to april
for spring and summer and never see them again til next year
yes these people need to "ego lift" in order for them to justify there
short time spent in the gym

but....to us hardcore dont give shit and dont even know what time of
the year it is lifters.... we dont care about what anyone thinks
its all about longivity and staying injury free

those of us that have had setbacks (injurys) know what im talking about


bottom line is

you HAVE all seen ego lifts, but can you tell the difference between
someone whose ego lifting and someone whose years and years of experience
taught them to effectively and safely target the muscle group that they want to target??

and shawn......i normally keep my mouth shut, but i read your posts
and i like you and your learning, so this is why i confronted you about it
dont end up like so many before you and think that you can comment
on shit when you have NO CLUE what your talking about

and who gives a hot steamy shit about what others are doing in the gym
i see alot of posts lately about this guy and that duche bag
who cares....do what YOU need to do

Good post. When I was younger I discovered over the years that I didnt know as much as I thought I did. I used to look at guys not doing full ROM and think the same thing, but with experience you learn the reasons. It is the middle portion of benches that works the chest the most, and by taking out the bottom and top portions puts a lot more stress on the pecs. I always had a feeling that this was true, but my head overruled that feeling by telling me that full ROM results in the most stimulus. It wasnt until I had Phil train me that I began to stop doing the bottomost and topmost parts of the lift. There is just something about when you have someone so well respected and with so much experience tell you to do something that makes you throw out your old thinking.
Even with the injuries in the shoulder I would sustain, I kept trying to stick with flat full ROM benches. By the time Phil came around I had stopped the flats, but was still doing full ROM. I was still having periodic shoulder issues doing the declines and inclines. Once I started doing the Phil method those problems were gone and I began to make more gains in bench strength and size.

 

[Ness]

Touching the chest and locking out will lead to problems when you decide to play with real weights.

 

[maldorf]

Touching the chest and locking out will lead to problems when you decide to play with real weights.

This is probably the case. I can say that I got away with doing it for the first 3 years or so because I hadnt reached a strength where I was using much weight.

 

[shawnkarbabacz]

the truth is......theres way too many factors to answer this question

but to say that anything but full range is mostly "ego lifts"
is ignorant and clueless

first, lets start with close grip
what is the proper range here??
what is the main objective??
what part of the movement are tris involved???
at the bottom??? at the top???
how close of a grip do you need to be a true close grip??

lets talk dumbbell presses
what is a "full range" dumbbell press???
all the way down to clanking them at the top????
whats the purpose of touching dumbbells??
for me to effectively hit my chest i need to do
a cross between a press and a fly with bells
and how far down can you really bring them before delts take over
and how far up can you go before tris take over
you cant effectively take these muscle out of the movement..
but.....you can lessen the work load of these muscle groups

lets talk injurys.....which maldorf already touched on
now for your nobody weight trainer who works out from jan to april
for spring and summer and never see them again til next year
yes these people need to "ego lift" in order for them to justify there
short time spent in the gym

but....to us hardcore dont give shit and dont even know what time of
the year it is lifters.... we dont care about what anyone thinks
its all about longivity and staying injury free

those of us that have had setbacks (injurys) know what im talking about


bottom line is

you HAVE all seen ego lifts, but can you tell the difference between
someone whose ego lifting and someone whose years and years of experience
taught them to effectively and safely target the muscle group that they want to target??

and shawn......i normally keep my mouth shut, but i read your posts
and i like you and your learning, so this is why i confronted you about it
dont end up like so many before you and think that you can comment
on shit when you have NO CLUE what your talking about

and who gives a hot steamy shit about what others are doing in the gym
i see alot of posts lately about this guy and that duche bag
who cares....do what YOU need to do

Well if youve read my other posts, i hope you can see im not a 'know it all' guy. The fact that i DONT know it all is very obvious to me and i gotta assume everybody else, but personally even if i did, i wouldnt act like that anyway so you dont have to fear me turning into one of those guys

I just commented on this because it struck a cord with me about alot of guys at my personal gym. And trust me, the ones im refering to you would not consider 'hardcore' lifters

Out of curiosity, what kind of weight are you guys talking about that you started to get the problems with your shoulders? haha just wondering if ive been lucky or just havent gotten to the point where it makes that big of a difference. For instance i did 275 for 7 on incline on monday which is the most ive ever done. I only get shoulder problems when i do flat (which i havent done in a very long time) and when i do flyes. Ive shortened the range on flyes the last year and havent looked back.

 

[hugga39]

Some people may have shoulder problems... I myself have shoulder issues and i roll a towel and use that on my chest to prevent from coming down too far and causing more injury...