Berberine instead of Metformin

[Stewie]

Berberine half-life is 1.5 to 3 hours and Metformin is six hours if you timed correctly what it work?

You have to consider steady state of the drug. The pharmacokinetics of a drug isn't limited to one half life.

Hopefully this clears things up

Half-life

 

[Andro308]

That happens more often than not with myself

I'm my own worst critic with spellcheck. After rereading what I grammatical fuked-up on my last post ---> ?imbeaded? ...I pondered...how the hell did that come up as a word!?! Supposed to be imbedded or embedded. Oh, well

Personally I'd assess if you are one of the unfortunate individuals that experiences gastrointestinal discomfort. So I'd start out with either 250mg a.m. and p.m. or one 500mg dose either a.m. or p.m. Then titrate your dose by 250mg twice per day or just add another 500mg to twice per day after 5-6 days if you're not having any G.I issues.

I have used Metformin before just the normal rapid release and use to use up to 2g a day and was fine. Only had problems when I took like 1g at once after eating a whole pizza.

The sustained release should be even better. You think 1.5g split into 3 doses would be good or is that too much maybe 1g. The pills are 500mg and I can’t break them due to the sustained release coating

 

[Stewie]

You have to consider steady state of the drug. The pharmacokinetics of a drug isn't limited to one half life.

Hopefully this clears things up

Half-life

To add to the confusion.

Due to the inhibitory actions on the functionality of organic cation transporter (OCT 1/2) from berberine, this in return will decrease the clearance of metformin. This is in part of the mechanisms that OCT 1/2 not only acts as a cell site transporter of certain drugs. It also functions to eliminate the drug, therefore increases the plasma concentration of metformin.

 

[Stewie]

I have used Metformin before just the normal rapid release and use to use up to 2g a day and was fine. Only had problems when I took like 1g at once after eating a whole pizza.

The sustained release should be even better. You think 1.5g split into 3 doses would be good or is that too much maybe 1g. The pills are 500mg and I can’t break them due to the sustained release coating

I personally see no need to go above a gram a day. Unless your HbA1c is abnormally high or you incorporate a $hit diet.

 

[Andro308]

Thanks again boss!

 

[Thebigone]

To add to the confusion.

Due to the inhibitory actions on the functionality of organic cation transporter (OCT 1/2) from berberine, this in return will decrease the clearance of metformin. This is in part of the mechanisms that OCT 1/2 not only acts as a cell site transporter of certain drugs. It also functions to eliminate the drug, therefore increases the plasma concentration of metformin.

So basically pick one over the other. What would you use?

 

[Stewie]

So basically pick one over the other. What would you use?

See below.

I presume you're asking my opinion?

For openings, I don't have a vendetta against berberine. It has very interesting biochemical and pharmacological properties. I choose not to use it.

To concisely answer your question of the main reasons I prefer metformin over berberine.

One is the unknown of purity and accurate dosage. I know when I take 500mg of metformin, that's exactly what's the manufacturer (pharmaceutical company) has precisely imbedded in the drug.

The bioavailability in-itself of berberine is quite low, in contrast to metformin. By using adjuvants to enhance the bioavailability such as P-Glycoprotein inhibitors, in which can potentially impact other drugs one may be taking. This also coincides with the drug-drug interactions of select isoenzymes of cytochrome p450 and organic cation transporter 1/2, in which berberine mucks-up.

Then there's the belief it can fuk-up thee testicular biosynthesis of 3β-HSD and 17β-HSD1, possibly expressing higher aromatase activity. At least shown in animal models. Dunno if we can readily extrapolate this to human, tho the catalysis of animal hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase expression is exceptionally similar to humans.

Berberine has unique properties, tho for my intended purposes, I'll choose metformin over berberine.

 

[swim15]

I've never noticed much of anything from either berberine or metformin, curious if anyone is in the same boat? ALA on the other hand is fucking amazing and my primary go-to for blood sugar control and insulin sensitivity

 

[FrancisK]

I use met, I feel like I look better on it than off of it. I also have a bottle of "white kidney bean extract" at home which is marketed as a carb blocker but I've never used it enough to judge it.

 

[KillerStack]

I've never noticed much of anything from either berberine or metformin, curious if anyone is in the same boat? ALA on the other hand is fucking amazing and my primary go-to for blood sugar control and insulin sensitivity

Have you used a glucose meter to see if ALA lowers your glucose? The data for ALA lowering glucose is pretty weak from what I've seen - a small acute drop has been noted but no effect on actual insulin sensitivity (see examine.com). It's a diabetic drug in certain countries but mostly for treating diabetic neuropathy, not lowering glucose.

ALCAR is one supp that should be good for insulin sensitivity.

 

[suppdude]

Have you used a glucose meter to see if ALA lowers your glucose? The data for ALA lowering glucose is pretty weak from what I've seen - a small acute drop has been noted but no effect on actual insulin sensitivity (see examine.com). It's a diabetic drug in certain countries but mostly for treating diabetic neuropathy, not lowering glucose.

ALCAR is one supp that should be good for insulin sensitivity.

ALA is one of the better supplements for blood glucose. The thing with ALA is it is poorly absorbed so if using straight ALA, you need a higher dose (1200mg+). Now if you use R-ALA or even Na-R-ALA, you'll get much greater results.

ALA + ALCAR is a favorable combo.

 

[cracker backer]

ALA is one of the better supplements for blood glucose. The thing with ALA is it is poorly absorbed so if using straight ALA, you need a higher dose (1200mg+). Now if you use R-ALA or even Na-R-ALA, you'll get much greater results.



ALA + ALCAR is a favorable combo.

What’s your dosing and timing with ALA and ALCAR typically look like?


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[suppdude]

What’s your dosing and timing with ALA and ALCAR typically look like?


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If using ALA, 1200mg ALA + 1 gram ALCAR twice per day
If using R-ALA or Na-R-ALA, 100-300mg + 1 gram ALCAR twice per day

 

[cracker backer]

If using ALA, 1200mg ALA + 1 gram ALCAR twice per day

If using R-ALA or Na-R-ALA, 100-300mg + 1 gram ALCAR twice per day

Cool. Time it before meals? Or just general AM/PM?


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[KillerStack]

ALA is one of the better supplements for blood glucose. The thing with ALA is it is poorly absorbed so if using straight ALA, you need a higher dose (1200mg+). Now if you use R-ALA or even Na-R-ALA, you'll get much greater results.

ALA + ALCAR is a favorable combo.

I was looking at some metaanalysis papers yesterday and in German trials they were getting better glucose disposal results when doing IVs. Not much via oral, but apparently good results as far as reducing neuropathies from diabetes, especially as reported subjective patient effects. Then there was something about a cap in effects orally at 600mg or so IIRC. It's probably a good protective supplement for bodybuilders who are pushing their bodies hard and are practically diabetic already, especially with ALCAR.

 

[swim15]

I haven't used a meter with it although I have with berberine and metformin. I can do that this weekend though and make some comparisons. I do also combine it with alcar

 

[suppdude]

Cool. Time it before meals? Or just general AM/PM?


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Before carb meals would be ideal. Around 20 minutes prior.

I was looking at some metaanalysis papers yesterday and in German trials they were getting better glucose disposal results when doing IVs. Not much via oral, but apparently good results as far as reducing neuropathies from diabetes, especially as reported subjective patient effects. Then there was something about a cap in effects orally at 600mg or so IIRC. It's probably a good protective supplement for bodybuilders who are pushing their bodies hard and are practically diabetic already, especially with ALCAR.

I haven't looked personally but I think its pretty much well known anything injected IV is going to have a much higher bioavailability than oral.

 

[joos23]

Anyone ever try this method?

https://mpasupps.com/blogs/news/stay-big-while-getting-shredded-with-metformin