best protein pwo

[sparks1420]

Im not sure if i have become lactose intolerant but dairy at this point makes me bloated and sick all day, what are some options on proteins post workout that arent whey.

 

[flexdurden]

Im not sure if i have become lactose intolerant but dairy at this point makes me bloated and sick all day, what are some options on proteins post workout that arent whey.

Is it whey that makes you feel sick or dairy? Many isolates have virtually zero lactose....

If it is whey that causes issues, then hydrolyzed casein (pepto-pro) would be your best bet...

 

[Ross Erstling]

Fish, eggs, beef, pork, chicken. Add some potatoes or rice and that beats ANY pwo drink..

 

[flexdurden]

Fish, eggs, beef, pork, chicken. Add some potatoes or rice and that beats ANY pwo drink..

But whey, or preferably a protein high in di and tri peptides (pepto pro), will spike amino acid levels fastest... That being said, if you have the need (training with sufficient intensity, volume...etc) and are using an intra workout recovery drink, then you already have the amino acid spike from the drink and in that case, a whole food meal would be appropriate.

 

[Ross Erstling]

But whey, or preferably a protein high in di and tri peptides (pepto pro), will spike amino acid levels fastest... That being said, if you have the need (training with sufficient intensity, volume...etc) and are using an intra workout recovery drink, then you already have the amino acid spike from the drink and in that case, a whole food meal would be appropriate.

FAST means nothing, science has proven that. Only time FAST matters at ALL is intra-workout, which is what MyoFUEL is for: MyoFuel - Supreme Sports Enhancements

30% OFF using "Group30"


Post workout meals should ALWAYS BE FOOD.

 

[KTT]

LBAs

LBAs

 

[flexdurden]

FAST means nothing, science has proven that. Only time FAST matters at ALL is intra-workout, which is what MyoFUEL is for: MyoFuel - Supreme Sports Enhancements

30% OFF using "Group30"


Post workout meals should ALWAYS BE FOOD.

Can you reference the studies that compare the difference in strength and/or muscle size by consuming either whey or whole food after an intense training session when NOT consuming an intra workout recovery supplement?

No anecdotal evidence, if you said science, I want to see the science.

 

[Swifto]

FAST means nothing, science has proven that. Only time FAST matters at ALL is intra-workout, which is what MyoFUEL is for: MyoFuel - Supreme Sports Enhancements

30% OFF using "Group30"


Post workout meals should ALWAYS BE FOOD.

Are you selling your MPI?

 

[Ross Erstling]

Are you selling your MPI?

Yes, but I don't LIE to people and tell them that it's better than food, it's against my principles. Milk Protein Isolate is the BEST source of powdered protein you can get however, and would advise EVERYONE to replace whey with our MPI-25.

 

[flexdurden]

Yes, but I don't LIE to people and tell them that it's better than food, it's against my principles. Milk Protein Isolate is the BEST source of powdered protein you can get however, and would advise EVERYONE to replace whey with our MPI-25.

Some people are lactose intolerant... high quality whey isolates have virtually no lactose... just saying....

And those studies to prove the science you speak of?

 

[Swifto]

Some people are lactose intolerant... high quality whey isolates have virtually no lactose... just saying....

And those studies to prove the science you speak of?

My stomach wont tolerate anything apart from whey isolate (high quality). I can also use vegetarian blends and pea protein just fine.

 

[flexdurden]

My stomach wont tolerate anything apart from whey isolate (high quality). I can also use vegetarian blends and pea protein just fine.

Gee whiz.... so much for everybody

 

[Ross Erstling]

Some people are lactose intolerant... high quality whey isolates have virtually no lactose... just saying....

And those studies to prove the science you speak of?

Well first of all, whey powder lacks the micronutrient content of whole foods like fish, eggs, and steak, which will affect all of the anabolic processes(and cellular ones too). Furthermore, WHEY PROTEIN ALONE is not optimal for maintaining increased levels of protein synthesis and nitrogen retention, because it is absorbed TOO rapidly, and as a result, is causes greater leucine oxidation. Studies have clearly shown that a MIX of CASEIN AND WHEY is superior to whey alone. Heck, even SOY/WHEY was better than whey alone. Protein blend ingestion following resistance exercise... [J Nutr. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI


We also must take in to account gastric emptying and rate of digestion and subsequent assimilation: The digestion rate of protein ... [Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001] - PubMed - NCBI

Have a look at this too:

Protein Absorption Rate (g/hour)

Raw Egg Protein 1.4
Cooked Egg Protein 2.9
Pea Protein 3.5
Milk Protein 3.5
Soy Protein Isolate 3.9
Casein Isolate 6.1
Whey Isolate 8-10
Tenderloin Pork Steak 10.0

from
**broken link removed**

========================================
a couple other quotes i ran into
========================================
DIGESTION TIME OF VARIOUS FOODS
(approx. time spent in stomach before emptying). ........
Water
when stomach is empty, leaves immediately and goes into intestines,
Juices
Fruit vegetables, vegetable broth - 15 to 20 minutes.
Semi-liquid
(blended salad, vegetables or fruits) - 20 to 30 min.

Fruits

Watermelon - 20 min.digestion time.
Other melons - Canteloupe, Cranshaw, Honeydew etc. - 30 min.
Oranges, grapefruit, grapes - 30 min.
Apples, pears, peaches, cherries etc. - digest in 40 min.

Vegetables

Raw tossed salad vegetables - tomato, lettuces, cucumber, celery, red or green pepper, other succulent vegetables - 30 to 40 min. digestion. -
Steamed or cooked vegetables
Leafy vegetables - escarole, spinach, kale, collards etc. - 40 min. - Zucchini, broccoli, cauliflower, string beans, yellow squash, corn on cob - all 45 min. digestion time
Root vegetables - carrots, beets, parsnips, turnips etc. - 50 min.
Semi-Concentrated Carbohydrates - Starches
Jerusalem artichokes & leafy, acorn & butternut squashes, corn, potatoes, sweet potatoes, yam, chestnuts - all 60 min. digestion.

Concentrated Carbohydrates - Grains

Brown rice, millet, buckwheat, cornmeal, oats (first 3 vegetables best) - 90 min.
Legumes & Beans - (Concentrated Carbohydrate & Protein)
Lentils, limas, chick peas, peas, pigeon peas, kidney beans, etc. - 90 min. digestion time
soy beans -120 min. digestion time
Seeds & Nuts
Seeds - Sunflower, pumpkin, pepita, sesame - Digestive time approx. 2 hours.
Nuts - Almonds, filberts, peanuts (raw), cashews, brazil, walnuts, pecans etc. - 2 1/2 to 3 hours to digest.

Dairy

Skim milk, cottage or low fat pot cheese or ricotta - approx. 90 min. digestion time
whole milk cottage cheese - 120 min. digestion
whole milk hard cheese - 4 to 5 hours digestion time

Animal proteins

Egg yolk - 30 min. digestion time
Whole egg - 45 min.
Fish - cod, scrod, flounder, sole seafood - 30 min. digestion time
Fish - salmon, salmon trout, herring, (more fatty fish) - 45 min. to 60 digestion time
Chicken - 11/2 to 2 hours digestion time (without skin)
Turkey - 2 to 2 1/4 hours digestion time (without skin)
Beef, lamb - 3 to 4 hours digestion time
Pork - 41/2 to 5 hours digestion time
=====================================

"Casein digestion takes up to six hours (or more); whey takes three hours or less to digest."

 

[flexdurden]

Well first of all, whey powder lacks the micronutrient content of whole foods like fish, eggs, and steak, which will affect all of the anabolic processes(and cellular ones too). Furthermore, WHEY PROTEIN ALONE is not optimal for maintaining increased levels of protein synthesis and nitrogen retention, because it is absorbed TOO rapidly, and as a result, is causes greater leucine oxidation. Studies have clearly shown that a MIX of CASEIN AND WHEY is superior to whey alone. Heck, even SOY/WHEY was better than whey alone. Protein blend ingestion following resistance exercise... [J Nutr. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI


We also must take in to account gastric emptying and rate of digestion and subsequent assimilation: The digestion rate of protein ... [Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001] - PubMed - NCBI

Have a look at this too:

Protein Absorption Rate (g/hour)

Raw Egg Protein 1.4
Cooked Egg Protein 2.9
Pea Protein 3.5
Milk Protein 3.5
Soy Protein Isolate 3.9
Casein Isolate 6.1
Whey Isolate 8-10
Tenderloin Pork Steak 10.0


<snip>

I do know and agree with you that a MIXED protein source will be best since you have both fast elevations in amino acid concentrations and sustained protein synthesis and nitrogen retention....

However, according to the one study, "The fast meals induced a strong, rapid, and transient increase of aminoacidemia, leucine flux, and oxidation." So, if our goal is to induce a protein synthetic response we need to have a rapid rise in amino acid levels, therefore the fast meals are more effective to initiate the recovery process...but a mixed meal will allow for the fast response as well as slow release

It should be noted that Lyle posts that table with an asterisk, saying, "*Measurements marked with an asterisk should be considered as the roughest estimates as the studies used indirect measurements of protein digestion."

Also, doesn't leucine have a greater amount of leucine than the whole food sources, which is needed for mTOR...

Not saying anything is wrong, just saying there is a lot more than what is on the surface... Another cinderation is the effect of a prior meal... so there is much more to think about than just saying a whole food meal is "best" is all scenarios...

 

[Ross Erstling]

Leucine only activates MTOR and is not by any means the ONLY pathway by which we can increase protein synthesis. Just by consuming healthy FATS with your protein you can dramatically increase the body's response to protein. Eating fish fat or fish oil with a meal will increase acute muscle protein synthesis GREATER than leucine alone: Effect of a protein and energy dense n-3 fatty acid enriched oral supplement on loss of weight and lean tissue in cancer cachexia: a randomised double blind trial -- Fearon et al. 52 (10): 1479 -- Gut

Also, a study comparing SKIM MILK vs WHOLE MILK demonstrated that whole milk increases protein synthesis 2.8 times MORE than skim milk. This implies that a mixed macronutrient meal containing healthy sources of fats is superior to a carb/amino beverage for maximizing muscle protein synthesis and nitrogen retention.

 

[flexdurden]

Leucine only activates MTOR and is not by any means the ONLY pathway by which we can increase protein synthesis. Just by consuming healthy FATS with your protein you can dramatically increase the body's response to protein. Eating fish fat or fish oil with a meal will increase acute muscle protein synthesis GREATER than leucine alone: Effect of a protein and energy dense n-3 fatty acid enriched oral supplement on loss of weight and lean tissue in cancer cachexia: a randomised double blind trial -- Fearon et al. 52 (10): 1479 -- Gut

Also, a study comparing SKIM MILK vs WHOLE MILK demonstrated that whole milk increases protein synthesis 2.8 times MORE than skim milk. This implies that a mixed macronutrient meal containing healthy sources of fats is superior to a carb/amino beverage for maximizing muscle protein synthesis and nitrogen retention.

Ross, that is a cancer study...c'mon.... I understand you have your beliefs, but now you are just fishing.

Also, you keep bring up mixed macros when that was not even part of the discussion, it was what generates the greatest protein synthetic response.....

I have life to get to...you can hold your beliefs, you are entitled to them

 

[Ross Erstling]

Ross, that is a cancer study...c'mon.... I understand you have your beliefs, but now you are just fishing.

Also, you keep bring up mixed macros when that was not even part of the discussion, it was what generates the greatest protein synthetic response.....

I have life to get to...you can hold your beliefs, you are entitled to them

I don't form my beliefs and then try to justify them with science, but rather, the SCIENCE determines my BELIEF: Effects of supplemental fish oil on re... [J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Ross Erstling]

Dietary omega-3 fatty acid supplementation in... [Am J Clin Nutr. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

This wasn't about fish oil, just to show that MTOR is not the only anabolic pathway in the body.

Point was originally, eating a meal containing FOOD is your best bet, even if we don't have a study to compare the two. Some extrapolating and reasoning is necessary.

 

[Swifto]

Dietary omega-3 fatty acid supplementation in... [Am J Clin Nutr. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

This wasn't about fish oil, just to show that MTOR is not the only anabolic pathway in the body.

Point was originally, eating a meal containing FOOD is your best bet, even if we don't have a study to compare the two. Some extrapolating and reasoning is necessary.

Whats your PWO meal now you're a vegetarian?

Also, what are your daily protein sources?

 

[Knight9]

I really don't understand how someone can say milk protein isolate is absolutely superior to whey iso+egg protein+micellar casein mix.....or either of the three alone..
Please explain your viewpoint.

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