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Beta blocker question for the doctors

Needmassquick

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I've read that beta blockers can help undo negative changes to the heart that have occurred and it can increase ejection fraction. But I looked up some studies and it shows that one of the ways it can help is through lowering heart contractility. How can it lower contractility but increase ejection fraction?

And do people usually feel worse on it? My doctors put me on lisinopril but my heart is basically the same. Blood pressure is fine so they're worried about it going too low with the beta blocker but my ejection fraction is 40% so I was thinking a beta blocker could get it back up but if it lowers heart rate and contractility then I don't know how.

Not using peds anymore
 

maldorf

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By lowering the heart rate it will increase filling time in the ventricles. More filling time will help raise EF. If you chose the right beta blocker you can avoid lowering BP much and just concentrate on the heart rate. I am on Bisoprolol for that. You want one that concentrates on the heart and not everything including the vasculature. Beta 1 is mostly heart and B2 is the smooth muscle in the vasculature.

I have never felt worse on my beta blocker, only makes me feel better. It can lower BP at higher doses. I had to lower my lisinopril dose down to just 5 mg/day. I take 10 mg of Bisoprolol. My ejection fraction right now is most probably under 20%.
 

Needmassquick

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By lowering the heart rate it will increase filling time in the ventricles. More filling time will help raise EF. If you chose the right beta blocker you can avoid lowering BP much and just concentrate on the heart rate. I am on Bisoprolol for that. You want one that concentrates on the heart and not everything including the vasculature. Beta 1 is mostly heart and B2 is the smooth muscle in the vasculature.

I have never felt worse on my beta blocker, only makes me feel better. It can lower BP at higher doses. I had to lower my lisinopril dose down to just 5 mg/day. I take 10 mg of Bisoprolol. My ejection fraction right now is most probably under 20%.

So it didn't help your ejection fraction?

My blood pressure is low normal and my heart rate is like 60-70 at rest so I guess pretty normal. It's not that my doctor and I want my heart rate or blood pressure to lower, we want to undo damage that was done to my heart and get my ejection fraction up.
 

maldorf

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So it didn't help your ejection fraction?

My blood pressure is low normal and my heart rate is like 60-70 at rest so I guess pretty normal. It's not that my doctor and I want my heart rate or blood pressure to lower, we want to undo damage that was done to my heart and get my ejection fraction up.
It really depends on what is causing your heart to be functioning at a lower capacity. With me, I had a heart attack and a large part of my heart died. Those cells are gone forever and there is no recovering from that.

If you have idiopathic cardiomyopathy, then it might actually help you. Keeping the blood pressure as low as you can and still feel good is important. You want to decrease the afterload on the heart. Im not sure of the mechanism for how beta blockers raise function other than increasing filling time. I think there is some research that shows they help for healthy remodeling of the heart. Something caused your function to be below normal. I hope that you figured out what it was and removed that from your life. If you did not, there is a chance it could get worse.
 

benchmstr

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By lowering the heart rate it will increase filling time in the ventricles. More filling time will help raise EF. If you chose the right beta blocker you can avoid lowering BP much and just concentrate on the heart rate. I am on Bisoprolol for that. You want one that concentrates on the heart and not everything including the vasculature. Beta 1 is mostly heart and B2 is the smooth muscle in the vasculature.

I have never felt worse on my beta blocker, only makes me feel better. It can lower BP at higher doses. I had to lower my lisinopril dose down to just 5 mg/day. I take 10 mg of Bisoprolol. My ejection fraction right now is most probably under 20%.
That's what they did to me! I have a hereditary extremely high heart rate..but my blood pressure and all my scans and test are perfect.

So they tried a few medications and turns out metropol doesn't effect my blood pressure and significantly lowered my heart rate...the first night I took it I slept 12 hours...had life long insomnia until then and had never slept longer than 4 hours in my life's
 

TripppleP

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I have been on low does metoprolol for several years. I was prescribed this for high blood pressure at 25mg/day. I now chop that into a third. When I first started taking this it made me tired and sluggish. Also got dizzy when I would drink or miss a dose. I'm currently working toward getting in with a cardiologist to see if I can get off of it but also to get checked up for current heart symptoms.
 

nothuman

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Use Nebivolol if you have a choice. It's been discussed ad nauseum on this board.
 

88shots

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I was prescribed propranolol for anxiety a while back and I noticed an increase in sex drive and better quality sleep.
 

Huehnerbruestchen

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i got me some. Helps with my anxiety too.

expensive as fuck though
Its dirt cheap actually here in Germany, pharma stuff.

Im taking 1,25mg ed right now for my TRT. With 2,5mg it was a sufficient dose to regulate 500mg of gear per week, with 3,75mg to 5mg ed I experienced really intense nightmares during the night but after a while u get used to it.
 

Muay Thai

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Propranolol is what I take for PTSD and hypertension. It suppresses noradrenaline and norepinephrine output which is what rattles our limbic systems, I run on adrenaline 24/7, literally, it is NOT fun. Because it counters those hormones, it works well for PTSD.

It destroys my pumps, vascularity, and interferes with insulin. It also causes ED, to the poster who said he had an increase I have never heard this but you are an anomaly. I have almost completely weaned off with baby aspirin and carditone but carditone is expensive. Hawthorne berry, some arjuna, g2g
 

88shots

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Propranolol is what I take for PTSD and hypertension. It suppresses noradrenaline and norepinephrine output which is what rattles our limbic systems, I run on adrenaline 24/7, literally, it is NOT fun. Because it counters those hormones, it works well for PTSD.

It destroys my pumps, vascularity, and interferes with insulin. It also causes ED, to the poster who said he had an increase I have never heard this but you are an anomaly. I have almost completely weaned off with baby aspirin and carditone but carditone is expensive. Hawthorne berry, some arjuna, g2g
I don’t suffer from ptsd but I have a family member who does so I understand somewhat the hell it can cause someone.He can’t close his eyes fully in a room if others are around.He has to be seated where he can see the whole room and loud noises make him very anxious.The propranolol did nothing for my anxiety.Different strokes for different folks.
 

Muay Thai

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I don’t suffer from ptsd but I have a family member who does so I understand somewhat the hell it can cause someone.He can’t close his eyes fully in a room if others are around.He has to be seated where he can see the whole room and loud noises make him very anxious.The propranolol did nothing for my anxiety.Different strokes for different folks.

propranolol ONLY works for the physical manifested feelings of anxiety, caused by norepinephrine and adrenaline (increased heart rate, arrythmia, body temperature changes, nonstop sweating, tightness in diaphragm, holding breath). Mine is bad, I scan every fucking room I walk into for exits and I lock eyes with everyone immediately who I sense as a potential factor - that way if the funk jumps and shit pops off , we get to it immediately and I am not around there helpless like a sitting duck. I grind teeth and jerk and convulse when I sleep, tren sweats make my ptsd sweats look like childs play, i have to wear mouthpiece because I grind my teeth, did I mention I am tense and rigid and hard to be around? My heart goes out to your family member, god bless you both my brother. I dont get the psychological manifestation of anxiety i.e racing thoughts, in fact I flex up and black out and go into battle mode instead, speaking becomes difficult and I am fully in survival mode. I have accidently socked numerous girlfriends while sleeping next to me and kicked etc. I felt liek a social leper for it. there is nothing I Can do about it, I have exhausted every resource, I have had numerous attempts on my life in and survived a shooting in may 2011. That was the 3rd or 4th time I had been in a full on shootout. It came with the territory. A lot of my homeys are seals and man these dudes walk around hard as nails, with an internal storm 24/7. its a heavy cross to carry bros.
 

Needmassquick

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thanks guys. I guess no one can really answer directly though how it helps increase ejection fraction if it decreases contractility? and maldorf we're not sure what caused
 

maldorf

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thanks guys. I guess no one can really answer directly though how it helps increase ejection fraction if it decreases contractility? and maldorf we're not sure what caused
If your ejection fraction is down a lot from a heart attack, nothing is going to ever bring that tissue back to life.

Ejection fraction can go up some with lower BP ( decreased after load) and slower heart rate. Other than that, look into beta blockers and remodeling. There is something there if you have cardiomyopathy.
 

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