Big A and other pros collaboration?

[tmuscle]

Well, I will just say this: given the right steroid, the right dose ,the right training and the right diet, anabolic steroids can stimulate growth of about 1 lb of lean muscle mass per week for 8-10 weeks, and if you continue to train like hell you keep most of it. Higher doses do not yield much more gains, because the limiting factor on muscle growth is the number of specific steroid hormone receptors in the cytoplasm and neucleus of skeletal muscle cells. Once these are saturated with steroids, higher doses have no further effect.

so if you are above your natural limit by a long shot (30-70 lbs) and then you go off the drugs yet you continue to train "like hell" you will keep most of it?

 

[suparay]

And again someone who made pro like they gonna say what they took to become pro.. Look at James Lewis dude was a fuckin tooth pic and look now.. Genetics? Ha that's a fuckin joke

 

[halflife]

Well, I will just say this: given the right steroid, the right dose ,the right training and the right diet, anabolic steroids can stimulate growth of about 1 lb of lean muscle mass per week for 8-10 weeks, and if you continue to train like hell you keep most of it. Higher doses do not yield much more gains, because the limiting factor on muscle growth is the number of specific steroid hormone receptors in the cytoplasm and neucleus of skeletal muscle cells. Once these are saturated with steroids, higher doses have no further effect.

But keep in mind that the increase intracellular concentration testosterone or 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone actually regulates the expression (transc/translation) of the NR3C4 receptor. In addition, IGF-1 (NCOA2/1), EGF (NCOA2/1), and IL-6 does (STAT3) induce the same expression of NR3C4 as well.

 

[Tinyshrek]

But keep in mind that the increase intracellular concentration testosterone or 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone actually regulates the expression (transc/translation) of the NR3C4 receptor. In addition, IGF-1 (NCOA2/1), EGF (NCOA2/1), and IL-6 does (STAT3) induce the same expression of NR3C4 as well.

^^^ this exActly. Got to have a certain level of test to support the muscle. Otherwise ur body will fight to get back to its natural state

 

[richiec]

One last thing richiec your a good guy but you must also be a fairly wealthy good guy To say anyone could afford to take all the good stuff cos they want it so bad is ridiculous. Most of my cycles are 1g range. Now on 1.05g test abd 400mg deca. Next cycle cutting will be 500mg total... if I competed it would be 2g etc. Anyway just showing they are typical doses... nothing silly... I can barely afford that. Lots of expenses etc out I struggle.

Just ordered 500IU and got it today... like xmas morning as a kid for me. But even if you added another $500 per month on me... that wouldn't even cover legit gh. Bodybuilding is a very expensive sport if you want to go far. This is the reason you see some many guys (pros included) jump up in weight/size once they get a good job or sponsorship. They basically went out and ordered lots of quality gh and more gear than they ever tried before.

Thank you Elvia! But you must not know very many HARDCORE addicts. People that use $100 a day worth of drugs and up. It's really not that hard to find people like this, they are everywhere. The drug has a hold on them and they do ANYTHING to get it. Hell, how many times have you heard of guys doing G4P? Are they doing it bc they love it or because they need the $$$ to run the drugs? BTW, I am NOT wealthy, I'm actually poor. BUT, I used to sell drugs to support my habbit, and I had a hefty one. Many of these guys do just that, sell drugs so they can get their stuff for free/cheap.

I give these examples from an addict standpoint. You must not be an addict, which is great. But if you or anyone else is not an addict, you have NO IDEA how far people will go. I sold to a girl (I am ashamed of this) who would drive 2 hrs and use $ that was supposed to be for her son. This was 5 yrs ago and I've changed, but addicts haven't. If someone will pour everything they have into a drug, why would this be any different? This is such a selfish lifestyle, guys are addicted to it, and find someone who has an addictive personality and there ya go. We have a lot of recovering addicts/alcoholics who I wish would chime in at the lengths people will go

 

[AlphaMaleDawg]

Higher doses do not yield much more gains, because the limiting factor on muscle growth is the number of specific steroid hormone receptors in the cytoplasm and neucleus of skeletal muscle cells. Once these are saturated with steroids, higher doses have no further effect.

Are there any studies or articles to back this up? I've never heard this before.

 

[suparay]

Are there any studies or articles to back this up? I've never heard this before.

Neither I... Would like to see solid proof as well

 

[richiec]

Another thing about what the pros run:

Do you guys REALLY, TRULY believe that they've been running the same doses (then increasing over the yrs) since they began? Do you think at 15,16,17 Branch or Jay was blasting 15+ iu pharm gh, with 4g of gear? Come on, you aren't that stupid. If someone with a job couldn't afford it, how could a 15-17 yr old, right? These guys doses probably didn't get too ridiculous (for those who abuse bad) until they became pros and "made it". Why? As someone elluded to, they got sponsorships. They higher they got, the bigger the deals and the more of them, giving them more money, thus allowing them to abuse more (if they desired). So yes, we know most of them abuse and spent a ton of $$$ on drugs, but I guarantee they weren't spending that much when they FIRST got into it.

If you spend, let's say $500/month on supps/vitamins/protein etc, and got a sponsorship and didn't have to pay for them anymore, BAM, you have $500 in your pocket for drugs. Things to think about. Is it expensive when you start running higher doses? Stupid question. But if you want it badly enough, you will find a way. People take money from their kids, don't pay bills, steal to get drugs, so why would this be any different?

 

[jay_dub]

Well, I will just say this: given the right steroid, the right dose ,the right training and the right diet, anabolic steroids can stimulate growth of about 1 lb of lean muscle mass per week for 8-10 weeks, and if you continue to train like hell you keep most of it. Higher doses do not yield much more gains, because the limiting factor on muscle growth is the number of specific steroid hormone receptors in the cytoplasm and neucleus of skeletal muscle cells. Once these are saturated with steroids, higher doses have no further effect.

Emeric, what do you mean by "train like hell". Does this include coming down to hrt doses? Are you leaving that part out?

If I went on a 8-10 week cycle, came off and simply "trained like hell" I would surely not keep most of it (at this point in my training). I'm way too far past my genetic limit to keep my gains.

I would interested to hear more on what dosages and what compounds you believe saturate all of the receptors to the point that a higher dosage would no longer be of any benefit.

 

[lucian]

I seem to keep reading how slin and gh are a huge factor. I've done slin off and on since 1998. All it does is make me far no matter what gh I use w it. And for me 5 iu if slin hits me hard for hours!! I've seen people take 20 iu of slin and not even eat any carbs. Me, I have a real sensitivity to slin. AND gh thickens my skin.

What does this mean? My genetics won't allow the right applications of these drugs. Levrone was the one who told me, gh makes you look like shit. Only twice did he run it. And. Both times he couldn't get dry. You can see it in the videos. Kevin is a very close freind. Not someone I just know. He take openly about drugs and what the right and wrong things are totals and what amounts.

Go back and look at pics a videos... See how dry he was. He never blew up. He was was train and eat and take gear and hold from there. It's not all about the slin gh combo.


I would like to see some people who are talking about this actually do it for 12 weeks and then diet for 12 weeks and see how it turns out.

As for emeric.... How can you guys question him? Do you really even know who he is? He isn't just another member on here. Do some research and have some respect!

 

[lucian]

Emeric, what do you mean by "train like hell". Does this include coming down to hrt doses? Are you leaving that part out?

If I went on a 8-10 week cycle, came off and simply "trained like hell" I would surely not keep most of it (at this point in my training). I'm way too far past my genetic limit to keep my gains.

I would interested to hear more on what dosages and what compounds you believe saturate all of the receptors to the point that a higher dosage would no longer be of any benefit.

You only have so many receptors. Some people have
More than others. All. Compounds will clog them up eventually. Try staying on for a year straight and keep increasing the dosage every 6 weeks and see what happens by month 6. The sides should really be hitting hard then.

 

[PitbullTank]

3ius and 400mgs- hahahahahahhahahaha, yea for maybe a week when they ran out...tha fuckin 80year old guys at the HRT clinic basically take that...wat a joke

Dante who is NO DAREDEVIL and used these little bitty doses w perfect BW got to 310lbs and what he says would be 265 on stage thru food and training only lol... Please explain DC what seperates yourself from being advanced size(OBV not pro look) from why others u believe can't get there.....I'm interested to as why noone else can achieve these feats that u have even with better genetics, and more drugs..???

What exactly is tha reason you got to that size anyways dc? You say your "offseason" yet you've never been "in season" lol.....you just CHOOSE to be 280-310 15%ish or more, instead of 250 lean? For what reason? Just to be able to say ur 300lbs??? Your soooo into tha health aspect that it seems pretty funny...Is that in your eyes really a healthier way? Why not just eat upto 350? If that little drugs plus 5-6k cals of dennys meals, chef boyardi and all that is what it takes, couldn't u be 100x better and long term healthier just fixing ur diet and being 250-260 lean while looking and feeling better???

 

[Johnny Smiles]

ugh

these topics go nowhere.
amazed that i read every damn page.

if its all about drugs, there should be a ton of pro sized pro looking bodybuilders all over the place.

but there isnt.
there is a guy posting in this thread that is on triple what a CLOSE friend of mine is and looks to be half of his size. bunk gear? doubt it..... genetics? prolly so.....:lightbulb:
-JS

 

[johnjuanb1]

JJB1, from the start on your endeavor, has your training and diet always been on point the last 17 years?

The reason I ask is someone can take all the gear they want, but if all their marbles arent lined up in a row they wont make the progress no matter how genetically blessed they are, IMHO. This imo is where someone with less than stellar genetics taking larger dosages and training and diet are perfectly on point or even working with one of the top guys will push ahead through hard work.

Maybe if JJB1 had a guru in his corner from the start me might of been pro?

My diet has always been perfect. This is a positive and a negative, depending on how you look at it. I have to maintain contest condition year-round to feel good about myself. I credit this to be the reason I am still alive, considering I have abused gear non-stop for 17 years. My good friend used to lecture me all the time that I could maintain a similar condition with atleast 20Lbs more muscle if I ate more solid foods, less protein drinks, and more calories. My friend ate like a horse and was huge and thick at 330Lbs. He abused gear as heavy as I did, if not heavier, and his muscles responded to it in a massive way. The difference between my friend and I today is he died of a heart attack at 28, while I'm still kicking.


I don't believe I would be pro today if I had a guru, as my friend that died was guru to Nassar. This guy knew more about nutrition and gear than anyone. Nassar said he was the most knowledgeable person he had ever met in regards to bodybuilding.

My training for my upperbody had been incredibly consistent the entire 25 years I have trained. With my lowerbody, when I blew up my knees at 29, I realized my dream of turning pro was over, as I could no longer lift the incredibly heavy weights I had been lifting to build my mass. I tried over and over for the next 4 years but every time I would get strong on my squat, I would reinjure my meniscus. I decided I wasn't going to compete again, and lost the consistency to my leg training. I decided to get the perfect bar body. It wasn't until I was 39 that I decided to compete again. I have been busting my ass on legs ever since, but losing 10 years of hard, consistent leg training has made it a bitch to get them to catch up to my upperbody.

 

[JonnyO]

My diet has always been perfect. This is a positive and a negative, depending on how you look at it. I have to maintain contest condition year-round to feel good about myself. I credit this to be the reason I am still alive, considering I have abused gear non-stop for 17 years. My good friend used to lecture me all the time that I could maintain a similar condition with atleast 20Lbs more muscle if I ate more solid foods, less protein drinks, and more calories. My friend ate like a horse and was huge and thick at 330Lbs. He abused gear as heavy as I did, if not heavier, and his muscles responded to it in a massive way. The difference between my friend and I today is he died of a heart attack at 28, while I'm still kicking.


I don't believe I would be pro today if I had a guru, as my friend that died was guru to Nassar. This guy knew more about nutrition and gear than anyone. Nassar said he was the most knowledgeable person he had ever met in regards to bodybuilding.

My training for my upperbody had been incredibly consistent the entire 25 years I have trained. With my lowerbody, when I blew up my knees at 29, I realized my dream of turning pro was over, as I could no longer lift the incredibly heavy weights I had been lifting to build my mass. I tried over and over for the next 4 years but every time I would get strong on my squat, I would reinjure my meniscus. I decided I wasn't going to compete again, and lost the consistency to my leg training. I decided to get the perfect bar body. It wasn't until I was 39 that I decided to compete again. I have been busting my ass on legs ever since, but losing 10 years of hard, consistent leg training has made it a bitch to get them to catch up to my upperbody.

Thanks for the response. Do you regret not taking your friends dietary advise and eating more whole foods? Do you wonder if it would have made a huge impact on how you look today if you did so? I ask because I stay lean as well, Im naturally lean, but never in my own eyes as Im sure you know the feeling, lol. But I find the more I eat, solid foods, the harder I look and bigger/rounder muscle bellies. You would think the opposite but doesnt pan out that way. I do go to work some nights, sit on my ass in a control post for 13 hours and eat my face off out of boredom, I prepare alot of good food, I get home to shower and expect to look soft but I look pretty good and harder than before I left for work. So for me more food = harder look.

 

[TNH]

This has gotten ridiculous.
I am not part of the 'all drugs' or the 'all genes' group.

I think it is crazy to think that genetics don't play a huge role in how far someone can go in this endeavor.
I think it is equally crazy to say that low dose is as effective as high dose, or that there are professionals out there using 500mg or whatever of total AAS.

When anyone goes too far to one extreme in their arguments, they really lose credibility, IMO. That goes for both sides.

 

[johnjuanb1]

whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa....

I'm pretty sure JohnJuanB never used much gh. You can't out-steroid a low gh protocol. If he had been on 20iu gh along with all the AAS he had been on simultaneously, who the hell knows what he would have looked like. JJB1, in your highest doses of AAS, how much gh did you use? I also remember you used slin for a year without gh, which we all know is not the smartest move in terms of packing on muscle

I have only used hgh for the past 3 years. I wasn't using it for probably 9 of those months, due to lack of funds. My hgh dose has been consistently around 6ius most of this time. It has ranged from 4ius to 30ius.

I used insulin heavy for a year in the mid 90's. I don't feel comfortable using insulin at the age of 43, as it always made my heart palpitate and beat incredibly heavy at the high dose needed to truly benefit from it.

I have grown alot more in the past 9 months than I ever had in the past due to the fact that I have been on a ton of peptides and a solid dose of riptropin the whole time. Had I been doing this for 20 years I feel I would be alot freakier. I don't think I could go pro with my bad knees, but I would be alot closer than I am now. I see hgh and peptides as the healthy drugs that help heal the damage that gear imparts.

 

[jay_dub]

This has gotten ridiculous.
I am not part of the 'all drugs' or the 'all genes' group.

I think it is crazy to think that genetics don't play a huge role in how far someone can go in this endeavor.
I think it is equally crazy to say that low dose is as effective as high dose, or that there are professionals out there using 500mg or whatever of total AAS.

When anyone goes too far to one extreme in their arguments, they really lose credibility, IMO. That goes for both sides.

This sums it all up right here.

Obviously genetics play a HUGE role. Anyone who thinks differently is delusional.

On the same note, drugs play a HUGE role as well. They both go hand in hand.

If you dont have the GENETICS, then you're gonna have use MORE of the GENERICS.

Will you become a pro? Most likely not.

But I personally believe you can be pro size with enough drugs if you're lacking in the genetics department.


This thread went to shit real fast lol.

 

[johnjuanb1]

Thanks for the response. Do you regret not taking your friends dietary advise and eating more whole foods? Do you wonder if it would have made a huge impact on how you look today if you did so? I ask because I stay lean as well, Im naturally lean, but never in my own eyes as Im sure you know the feeling, lol. But I find the more I eat, solid foods, the harder I look and bigger/rounder muscle bellies. You would think the opposite but doesnt pan out that way. I do go to work some nights, sit on my ass in a control post for 13 hours and eat my face off out of boredom, I prepare alot of good food, I get home to shower and expect to look soft but I look pretty good and harder than before I left for work. So for me more food = harder look.

BigMike295 convinced me to switch to all whole foods and up the calories this past off-season, with a lower dose of gear. It was the worst I have felt and looked in years. I was in peak condition last september. I am still struggling to get back to that condition. All the dietary change did was made me extremely fatigued to where my training suffered. I was out of breath all the time carrying around 264Lbs. I felt like I was on the verge of a heart attack. I will never do that again. My muscles are full and vascular on protein drinks. I feel 10x healthier and still maintain 250Lbs, but I look and feel a hell of alot better. Again, as with the death of my friend, bulking up is a killer when you are on tons of gear. All that extra food has to be processed by the liver. If you have ever seen the documentary, SUPER SIZE ME, you will remember what the one month of high calorie food did to his liver values. My liver was cleaner on 5 grams of gear.

 

[PitbullTank]

You kno wat...I don't care about the answers to my last post... None of this shit matters to me really... Just a debate...I hadn't come on here in a few months and a lot had to do with tha same dumb ass argument....ill admit I jokingly take cracks at dc, as does he to me... I do have respect for the mans training, business mind, and just all around good guy...just don't agree w his drug talk lol... All I can speak about is things I've witnesses while living with a pro and training and talking to several pros...if what I took in and I learned waz off or tha wrong things, then I'm to blame.... But these were a few of tha biggest guys I've ever been around that made me want to BB....Just wanted to clear that up and try 2 end this dumb shit between us dc...