Bio-identical hormones (test, gh, insulin, igf)

[xpoc]

Have you never heard of the use of use of Metformin and caloric restriction to promote longevity, based on IGF-I & mTOR being viewed as anathema to longevity? I mean, 99/100 papers that I read view activation of the IGF-I cascade/mTOR activity as positively disasterous.

Yeah, basically anything that increases IGF-I activity is anathema to longevity.

So if I read this correctly.... those who take HGH for longevity or anti-aging purposes through TRT clinics are actually doing the opposite? Decreasing lifespan?

 

[LATS]

what about their training, do they go for the pump or chase heavy weights?

They do a unreal amount of exercise volume.. a champ there named Abel literally does 7 exercises for chest.. back. Quads.. 4 to 5 sets a piece.. he does pyramid up to some decent weight but doesn't hit failure. Ahskani also does quite a bit of volume.. does some heavy weight but never hits failure.. lots of pump sets also.. seems to be a theme there..

 

[luki7788]

what about their training, do they go for the pump or chase heavy weights?

see how Vlad Suchoruczko trains, i.e. heavy weights, large volume and a lot of everything lol - this is how you train in oxygen

 

[mayan]

So if I read this correctly.... those who take HGH for longevity or anti-aging purposes through TRT clinics are actually doing the opposite? Decreasing lifespan?

Anti-aging translates to “APPEAR younger than you actually are.”

 

[LATS]

see how Vlad Suchoruczko trains, i.e. heavy weights, large volume and a lot of everything lol - this is how you train in oxygen

They seem to stop short of failure to accommodate the added volume..

 

[Ruhlfreak55]

Reading a lot of these responses I don't think we're on the same page as to what the industry claims "bio-identical" means.

My understanding is that this is very....specific. A good example is for thyroid. Anything synthetically made isn't "bio-identical" so only Armour thyroid (made from some kind of swine concoction) is. I would assume it's something similar (and expensive) for testosterone.

Some of the responses make it seem like using "test" is bio-indentical vs something like Mast not being. And while of course you can't have a bio-identical version of mast.....run of the mill test isn't bio-identical either.

 

[Bio]

How do people take adrol all offseason and maintain appetite? Is there some secret compound or supplement to take orals and not have one's appetite get crushed? or do they just use inject anadrol?

When I was in my 20's, I could take orals and it never affected my appetite. Back then it was all Pharm grade. I'm wondering if they had any type of buffer in there or if the pills had an enteric coating?

 

[Wolf79]

I also heard that in oxygen they often don't use insulin but use high doses of gh. how do they deal with glycemia with a lot of food and gh without insulin?

 

[dany23x]

see how Vlad Suchoruczko trains, i.e. heavy weights, large volume and a lot of everything lol - this is how you train in oxygen

yes in O2 , you do nothing , the assistants do everything for you , loading and unloading ; a whole other world, only the greatest talents go to kuwait and make this life paid by Bader Boodai

 

[luki7788]

I also heard that in oxygen they often don't use insulin but use high doses of gh. how do they deal with glycemia with a lot of food and gh without insulin?

they don't care

to be honest, their knowledge is very little, more drugs, more training, more food, they don't look at the side effects until they grow up

 

[Zarati]

Your body makes 1-2 mg of nandrolone a week..granted 120mg is a lot considering that fact..but it’s still a thing

My body uniquely makes 50mg bro-identical TREN every week and since starting testosterone I've shut it down so I inject it myself

 

[yousef12O]

its crazy how much muscle a guy like roelly lost in a couple of years when he was a mass monster 2 or 3 years ago, makes you wonder what guys do over there that when they stop, all the muscles evaporate

 

[dany23x]

one of the secrets is also the real IGF1 not the fake things that go around in Europe or America, Roelly has now retired, he would have risked his health too much

 

[fisther69]

My body uniquely makes 50mg bro-identical TREN every week and since starting testosterone I've shut it down so I inject it myself

Me too!

 

[jaxino]

Are there people here that only use those to blast/cruise(TRT is obvious of course)?

I'm curious about this because @luki7788 stated that this will be the 'most healthy' way to blast. I get sides from pretty much everything besides test so this would be a solid option.

Please share your results/dosages etc.

Rule number 1, bodybuilding isn't healthy.

In 2019 i hired Coach Steve for 16 weeks, we started from:
500mg TestE, 2iu HGH, Lantus first thing am + Log postwo + T4

Ended up to:
750mg TestE, 4iu HGH, a tad more Lantus first thing am + a tad more Log postwo + T4

In the middle of this time together, before 2weeks before every "deload week" we used 50mg Anadrol to break through strength plateaus.

My bloods were always fine.
Lipids, mainly HDL, were better than while on test+other steroids, other markers didn't move at all.
Blood pressure was 70 over 120 all time, Blood glucose around 80. We didn't use Telmisartan or Metformin just the drug i wrote above.

I have to say that gains were good, but i didn't feel that "on" like on a test eq tren cycle. (big news eh?)

In the end i started at 182cm 95kg very lean and ended up at 110kg with abs, but ofc a tad fatter, imho gains weren't that bad at all.

Had to stop the coaching because had humbelical hernia surgery.

Overall it wasn't a bad experience but i still prefer to run Test+another AAS, the potential gains imho are superior.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

I think that "bio-identical" hormones are a basic fiction, and that's OK, because chemical modifications to T, GH, IGF-I, & insulin, all provide enhancements for various applications (e.g., Rimobolan is a superior drug for treatment resistant cancer than testosterone).

I mean, if your view is that eventually a prodrug to testosterone yields testosterone, I of course agree. But I think there's a clear distinction between in vivo testosterone & testosterone enanthate. The first is bioidentical, the second is a delivery mechanism for T. I love T, almost always use it - almost - I prefer orals only without exogenous T sometimes (since exogenous T is so suppressive, and the 17AAs are virtually nonsuppressive and just additive to endogenous T). Huge myth to say otherwise. Major perils of exogenous test include suppression of gonadotropins and HPG axis suppression, aromatization to estradiol, 5AR in prostate, etc. You probably know all this, but the point is that there weren't two decades of industrial-scale international efforts by pharmaceutical corporations to develop testosterone alternatives for naught - it's because many derivatives are better at non-TRT applications than testosterone is.

I just can't reconcile this my brain. I keep thinking of all the analogs designed as birth control and shut down the HPGA while maintaining the effect of general well-being as a form of birth control. And as breast cancer treatment. I'll look it up later but I'd like to see if there is an increased incidence in males of breast cancer using T and analogs.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Anti-aging translates to “APPEAR younger than you actually are.”

* "...APPEAR and FEEL younger than you actually are."

 

[Type-IIx]

Now that's what I'm talkin' about! Well done.. Well done.

Thanks bro, you will always get a reasoned reply from me when you ask.

 

[Type-IIx]

I just can't reconcile this my brain. I keep thinking of all the analogs designed as birth control and shut down the HPGA while maintaining the effect of general well-being as a form of birth control. And as breast cancer treatment. I'll look it up later but I'd like to see if there is an increased incidence in males of breast cancer using T and analogs.

I don't grok the nexus between hormonal birth control, male breast cancer & AAS, and my post you quoted here. I'll let you hash out your thinking, I have no clue where you're going with this heh.

 

[Type-IIx]

So if I read this correctly.... those who take HGH for longevity or anti-aging purposes through TRT clinics are actually doing the opposite? Decreasing lifespan?

That's correct, and many do argue that it also decreases healthspan, because normal aged adults given GH replacement to youthful levels experience significantly increased rates of insulin resistance, oxidative stress, cancer & renal disease.

The debate gets tricky over some particular facets of the aging process that are partly reversible by GH replacement in normal aged adults, that include improved muscle function (size & strength) & body composition (decreased fat mass), bone mineral density, etc.

If those latter benefits outweigh the prior risks for an individual, then it may be perfectly rational for that individual to use rhGH, and certainly isn't unethical for a doctor to treat those real ailments with rhGH.

We can quip over the accuracy of calling rhGH therapy in healthy adults "anti-aging." I have my opinions, but everyone has those.