blast and cruise vs cycling

[thebigbus]

I think even Dr. Rand from those YouTube videos may have said 600 test long term can be safe as long as e2 and rbc levels are fine. It was a while ago so I don't know if I'm remembering correctly or not

Yep I remember him saying that in that video as well. Probably basing it off of the popular study with the differing testosterone doses at 20 weeks.

I really wish we had a study of guys on 600 for, say, 2 years :-D

 

[jayl19]

Dave palubo wasn't saying its healthy to come off the trt he was saying because your T is near zero your receptors are super sensitive so when you hit the gear 4-6 weeks later you only need a small amount and you blow up, he also never said wait till T is in range either, he recons you gain more this way then blast an cruise

 

[jrock00123]

Hopefully Stewie or one the science experts can chime in on the AR desensitivity debate. I would think that androgen receptor gene transcription would occur when the AR activated by testosterone regardless.

Perhaps it is that myostatin is reduced when a strong dose of androgens is completely removed for a period of time. This would explain a sudden growth burst when the hormones are reintroduced.

Even if this were true, I'm still in the camp of staying on a low dose due to the hormonal roller coaster of coming off completely and then jumping back in.

 

[thebigbus]

Hopefully Stewie or one the science experts can chime in on the AR desensitivity debate. I would think that androgen receptor gene transcription would occur when the AR activated by testosterone regardless.

Perhaps it is that myostatin is reduced when a strong dose of androgens is completely removed for a period of time. This would explain a sudden growth burst when the hormones are reintroduced.

Even if this were true, I'm still in the camp of staying on a low dose due to the hormonal roller coaster of coming off completely and then jumping back in.

^ agreed.

And the whole myostatin thing is overblown I think. Myostatin goes up due to muscle growth, and will go up more when people are above their genetic limit. It is just a fact of getting bigger.

On the androgen desensitization thing - I'd need studies showing this happens. Otherwise it's more voodoo

 

[jayl19]

Iv took my last jab on Sunday for my bulk and Im probably gonna go with trt 200mg test cyp every 7 days (that right?) any way Iv gained a few too many pounds of fat would it be a bad idea to start a short 3-4 week diet now while on trt straight after a bulk cycle?

 

[big_rich]

It seems most here feel blasting and cruising is a much better alternative to cycling. I've always done the norm 12 week cycles come off once htpa is back to normal for a while I hit it again. I haven't decided if I'm read to pin my self for the rest of my life. Soon I will thou

 

[Dyr611]

Personally I prefer blast & cruise- when I cruise I stay at a TRT dose of Test e or c for at least as long as my previous cycle, sometimes longer if money is an issue. I'm sure this is bro science but IMO the less my levels fluctuate over time, the better.

 

[big_rich]

How long have you guys Been on this b and c schedule would you say it's still possible to recover your htpa. I don't think I want any more kids but i never know.

 

[Kaladryn]

x2 never once have I ever come off completely ever. There's really no point once you've already started IMO.

True only if people can "cruise" at normal doses, which I'm not convinced anyone can. And by normal I mean normal for that person's age. Nearly everyone thinks they are the 1 in 100 "exception" that requires 200mg/week or 350mg/week to reach "normal" levels. Even though so many studies on TRT just don't show these people exist except in the rarest of circumstances. Many doctors claim they have these patients, yet do they account for the patients that are purposely trying to get their dose increased? Of course not. Or they get bloodwork done a week after injecting and see a normal range and think they are good. Or they believe 1000-1200 is within the "normal range."

The list of rationalizations goes on and on.

Cycling when out with the early 90s due to people like Duchaine who pointed out all the side effects occurred when you went off, it came back with a vengeance when everyone was trying to sell PCT crap a decade later. Everyone on the internet does whatever the majority of the internet decides is best, this type of thinking always excludes exceptional progressive methodology, by the definition of the average majority.

So I agree with you, blasting and cruising could potentially be the healthiest way to go, but in actual practice it is the most dangerous way and is the main cause of all the deaths and "events" we are seeing.

 

[Kaladryn]

Here is my take on desensitization.

First you are only as big as your dose. Taking a bunch of gear doesn't make you permanently bigger, you are only bigger because of the gear.

Now if you have never been that big, going on and off isn't going to help you that much, but if you have spent years blowing up and have "put on your size" then going off for any period isn't going to hurt that size. It doesn't matter if you drop 50 lbs of muscle, all that muscle is going to pop right back the second you go back on: you are only as big as your dose.

This is when desensitization really helps. I've been 250lbs on a bunch of stuff, then done 120mg/week TRT (which keeps me in the 800-900 range, probably a bit too high) for a long period of time. I can then bump that to 200mg/week and grow extremely fast, bump it to 500mg and I'm growing faster than what should be possible, but it's all "muscle memory" type growth.

Using this method, I could get very close to my previous size on much less OR I could get to my previous size using my previous dose for a shorter period of time. Either way it is a much healthier approach, and in bodybuilding, healthier means bigger in the long run.

 

[janoshik]

True only if people can "cruise" at normal doses, which I'm not convinced anyone can. And by normal I mean normal for that person's age. Nearly everyone thinks they are the 1 in 100 "exception" that requires 200mg/week or 350mg/week to reach "normal" levels. Even though so many studies on TRT just don't show these people exist except in the rarest of circumstances. Many doctors claim they have these patients, yet do they account for the patients that are purposely trying to get their dose increased? Of course not. Or they get bloodwork done a week after injecting and see a normal range and think they are good. Or they believe 1000-1200 is within the "normal range."

The list of rationalizations goes on and on.

Cycling when out with the early 90s due to people like Duchaine who pointed out all the side effects occurred when you went off, it came back with a vengeance when everyone was trying to sell PCT crap a decade later. Everyone on the internet does whatever the majority of the internet decides is best, this type of thinking always excludes exceptional progressive methodology, by the definition of the average majority.

So I agree with you, blasting and cruising could potentially be the healthiest way to go, but in actual practice it is the most dangerous way and is the main cause of all the deaths and "events" we are seeing.

I completely agree with you.

Mostly nobody cruises on less than 250mg / week even though that's clearly supraphysiolgical and can be dangerous in the long term.

However, around here the doctors/nurses administer the TRT themselves (you can't administer it yourself) so patients can't just 'fake' they need more for normal blood levels. If they are above 400ng they are good to go. Also, if they are over 300 and stop exhibiting symptoms of low T they are considered to be G2G as well. (What a difference from what most of the internet community considers to be okay levels! I've seen people wanting to go on TRT because of 750ng, which I honestly find alarming!)

Nebido (test undecaonate) is the drug of choice around here, in eastern Europe - 1 shot of 1000mg per 3 months usually. It's pretty much impossible to get anything more from prescription here - is it different in US?

I have seens dozens if not hundreds of young men who were convinced that 1000ng is 'higher average.'

 

[sazo75]

Good info and reading material by Kalad.