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Blood work Test Levels came back at 30, aw fuck

Dont worry

1st off having kids while on is not very hard to do, trust me I found out (last month). If you do a search for Dave Palumbo's threads in Muscle Dev he discusses how you need to up your test to over 1g a week and boom you will saturate the testis with testosterone. It’s too long to go into but don’t worry about having a kid.
Now to your test levels, some say PCT, some say do nothing. Either way you will just have to let your body get back to normal and at your age it will, regardless of what you have done. I personally think this PCT is bullshit but this will be debated forever. Here is just a thought, woman take the pill to trick their body into not producing estrogen and they stay on for years but come off and boom it take a few months but they are back to normal. The body has a closed loop system so it will figure it out.
I’m sure even my comments will be debated but that’s what a healthy discussion is all about.
 
there is a couple big guys at my gym that say don't do shit,suck it up, but they are 22 and i'm 44
 
well for the first 2 weeks all i have is asin and nolva, better than nothing, i had to get off, my crit was 52.5..........ill be getting some hcg and clomid.......little worried bout clomid sides, should i start at 50mg? i feel like crap now anyhow 2 weeks in,couldn't hurt i guess to do what your saying

Do the exact protocol that I posted earlier in the thread once you have all the chemicals/compounds necessary.

For now, just use nolvadex @ 40mg/ed and aromasin @ 10 - 12.5mg/ed until the clomid and HCG arrives. (remember, i said you could use tore instead of the clomid if you're concerned with potential side-effects.)

Then once the HCG arrives, drop the nolva and run the HCG and aromasin for 2 weeks to get the testes firing, and then do the extended PCT.

BTW - in the mean time you might want to get yourself some viagra/cialis to help. I would assume you're having a terrible time with erectile-dysfunction right now.

Hope that helps..

-VM
 
1st off having kids while on is not very hard to do, trust me I found out (last month). If you do a search for Dave Palumbo's threads in Muscle Dev he discusses how you need to up your test to over 1g a week and boom you will saturate the testis with testosterone. It’s too long to go into but don’t worry about having a kid.
Now to your test levels, some say PCT, some say do nothing. Either way you will just have to let your body get back to normal and at your age it will, regardless of what you have done. I personally think this PCT is bullshit but this will be debated forever. Here is just a thought, woman take the pill to trick their body into not producing estrogen and they stay on for years but come off and boom it take a few months but they are back to normal. The body has a closed loop system so it will figure it out.
I’m sure even my comments will be debated but that’s what a healthy discussion is all about.

I completely disagree with that statement. You're saying just forget about the HPTA suppression?? "suck it up princess??" :headbang: loll - No, dude living with low-test symptoms is awful and one of the worst feelings I've experienced. The only thing that's worse that that is rock bottom low-estrogen levels.

What is the simple way of avoiding prolonged shutdown.... a PCT. It's simple.

I've been in the game a while, and back in the day PCT's didn't even exist, and yeah sure the young guys that are 19 - 25 might be able to bounce back from cycling without PCTS, and manage to recover their testosterone levels (albeit, who knows if they are actually fully-functional without a baseline and bloodwork).

Anyone whose done a cycle and gone cold turkey without PCT, and then has corrected that mistake and done a proper PCT post-cycle will reiterate my comments. The difference SERMS make to the length needed for recovery is undeniable.

Just my 0.02...

-VM
 
there is a couple big guys at my gym that say don't do shit,suck it up, but they are 22 and i'm 44

at 44 without a proper PCT you can shut yourself down for life. You don't want to end up on TRT (testosterone replacement therapy) until absolutely necessary.

Recovery gets harder and harder with each cycle once you're 25+ - haha. it's a sad reality of getting old ;)

-VM
 
i've been on for 1.5 yrs, never touched it b4 that, hoping ill come back trt did seem like a pia


why 40mg nolva? i'm doing 20 now and 10 asin

btw, ty for your help, don't mean to hijack
 
Do the exact protocol that I posted earlier in the thread once you have all the chemicals/compounds necessary.

For now, just use nolvadex @ 40mg/ed and aromasin @ 10 - 12.5mg/ed until the clomid and HCG arrives. (remember, i said you could use tore instead of the clomid if you're concerned with potential side-effects.)

Then once the HCG arrives, drop the nolva and run the HCG and aromasin for 2 weeks to get the testes firing, and then do the extended PCT.

BTW - in the mean time you might want to get yourself some viagra/cialis to help. I would assume you're having a terrible time with erectile-dysfunction right now.

Hope that helps..

-VM


no gf so who cares, any new girl gets me up regardless ,lol
 
i've been on for 1.5 yrs, never touched it b4 that, hoping ill come back trt did seem like a pia


why 40mg nolva? i'm doing 20 now and 10 asin

btw, ty for your help, don't mean to hijack

40mg is a good starting point for nolvadex. 20mg is a suffice dosage to simply block the breast tissue receptors; but I feel that one has to frontload nolva for it to work optimally.

In addition, you've suppressed your HPTA for 1.5 years. (18 months) you can't honestly expect that some super sub-par PCT (ie) a low dose of aromasin and low dose of tamoxifen would recover your HPTA from such a lengthy shutdown period.... do you?? :S

No problem - glad I could help bro.

no gf so who cares, any new girl gets me up regardless ,lol

hahahahahha. word.

-VM:headbang:
 
My own question and insulting comment

Q: isn't sperm count what signifies fertility?
IC: this is why I waited until I was 45, vasectomized, have 2 kids (that I often wish I could give back:p). You guys starting much younger, I worry about your future. If I stroke out tomorrow atleast I had 47 healthy years. You guys have lit the fire much younger. How are you going to age?
 
Last edited:
I completely disagree with that statement. You're saying just forget about the HPTA suppression?? "suck it up princess??" :headbang: loll - No, dude living with low-test symptoms is awful and one of the worst feelings I've experienced. The only thing that's worse that that is rock bottom low-estrogen levels.

What is the simple way of avoiding prolonged shutdown.... a PCT. It's simple.

I've been in the game a while, and back in the day PCT's didn't even exist, and yeah sure the young guys that are 19 - 25 might be able to bounce back from cycling without PCTS, and manage to recover their testosterone levels (albeit, who knows if they are actually fully-functional without a baseline and bloodwork).

Anyone whose done a cycle and gone cold turkey without PCT, and then has corrected that mistake and done a proper PCT post-cycle will reiterate my comments. The difference SERMS make to the length needed for recovery is undeniable.

Just my 0.02...

-VM

Like i said this is something to debate. I have been in the game for 26 years so I think I know a thing or two also but that is not the point. There are many studies that say PCT slows down recovery and some that say its works great. Either way my point was the TS is in his 20's and really should be able to bounce back and if he wants to have kid (which is what he asked), while his is on bump up the test to over 1g, or get off and do clomid and HCG under a good protocal.
 
Endocrinologist wil put you where you need to be 40 days is nothing. Give it some time and retest. You never know, you may have had bunk pct meds.
 
There are far newer studies which are much more revealing about SERMS effects/pathways nowadays.

The one's from the 70's/80's are one's that are often misinterpreted by the bodybuilding community. (IE) I don't know if you were around in the 90's but nolvadex wasn't around, and clomid only was considered the "optimal" PCT. We used to run doses like 300mg/ed clomid for a week and then drop to 100mg/ed for the rest.

^^ That "science" was based on studies that showed that the higher the dosage of clomid will correspond to higher testosterone levels. But what we didn't realize was that 50mg/ed of clomid is more then enough to use, and anything <100mg/ed = useless, and just gives more side effects.
yes i know there are more current studies and in the 90s and early 2000s i did both together but never anything else...now i just use aromasin and clomid...works great for me, and i use small eod to every 3rd day doses of hcg throughout cycles...
 
You just came off....Last time I came off a pretty lon cycle it took about a month for everything to go back to"normal." No worries just yet
 
There are far newer studies which are much more revealing about SERMS effects/pathways nowadays.

The one's from the 70's/80's are one's that are often misinterpreted by the bodybuilding community. (IE) I don't know if you were around in the 90's but nolvadex wasn't around, and clomid only was considered the "optimal" PCT. We used to run doses like 300mg/ed clomid for a week and then drop to 100mg/ed for the rest.

^^ That "science" was based on studies that showed that the higher the dosage of clomid will correspond to higher testosterone levels. But what we didn't realize was that 50mg/ed of clomid is more then enough to use, and anything <100mg/ed = useless, and just gives more side effects.

I agree that the doses we used to use were too high. I remember reading all the "information" back then and how you had to front load the clomid to get the blood levels up right away. Makes you wonder what "information" is being circulated today that is far from ideal.
 
Q: isn't sperm count what signifies fertility?
IC: this is why I waited until I was 45, vasectomized, have 2 kids (that I often wish I could give back:p). You guys starting much younger, I worry about your future. If I stroke out tomorrow atleast I had 47 healthy years. You guys have lit the fire much younger. How are you going to age?

I think that depends on how people are doing this thing of ours. Are they out blasting high amounts, eating poorly, getting little sleep, taking other things such as recs, and not getting blood work? If this is the case then I too worry about their future.

If on the other hand one takes very little, we have some research saying up to 600mg/week for 12 weeks does not alter panels that much and 150mg going up 600mg/week gives you plenty to grow on, gets their blood work done, eats clean as much as possible, does their cardio, takes it easy on rec including alcohol, gets their sleep and lives as stress free of life as they can then I feel this can be done and enhance your life.
 
I agree that the doses we used to use were too high. I remember reading all the "information" back then and how you had to front load the clomid to get the blood levels up right away. Makes you wonder what "information" is being circulated today that is far from ideal.

True bro - absolutely true.

Food for thought

-VM
 

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