BLOODTEST RESULTS 2/15/05 TO 3/21/05

[JETHRO TULL]

MUCH IMPROVEMENT FELLAS! [THANK GOD]

LIVER ENZYMES DOWN MARKEDLY ALTHOUGH STILL SOMEWHAT ELEVATED...DOC SAYS A LIFTERS LIVER ENZYMES ARE TYPICALLY ELEVATED. IN FACT HE WENT ON TO STATE THAT AS LONG AS GGT LEVELS ARE NORMAL...SOMEONE WHO IS CONSTANTLY BREAKING DOWN MUSCLE TISSUE WILL HAVE ELEVATED ALT, AST, AND CPK LEVELS. THIS IS THE RESULT OF MUSCLE BREAKDOWN AND IS NOT PATHOLOGICAL. SOMEONE WHO IS INJURED IN A CAR WRECK WILL ALSO HAVE ELEVATED CPK LEVELS. SO THERE YOU GO.

I DROPPED ALL SUPPS SO THAT ALSO PROBABLY HAD A HAND IN THE DECREASE....FOR EXAMPLE....ON 2/15 BLOOD WORK MY AST SCORE WAS 108...NORMAL RANGES ARE 5-60...SO I WAS PRETTY ELEVATED...AS OF MARCH 21...A LITTLE OVER A MONTH LATER MY AST SCORE WAS 77...STILL SOMEWHAT HIGH, BUT THE DOC ASSURES ME ....QUITE NORMAL FOR ONE WHO LIFTS INTENSLY. I WAS HAPPY WITH THAT.

MY HDL....THE GOOD CHOLESTEROL WENT WAY UP! I ATTRIBUTE THIS TO THE FISH OIL I BEGAN TAKING [THANKS PHIL AND DR. SEARS, AND BOARD MEMBER BIOCHEMGEN]...MY HDL AS OF 2/15 WAS 35...NORMAL RANGES ARE 35-77.....MARCH 21, 2005 THE SCORE WAS 51.....THAT IS GREAT NEWS FOR THE HEART HEALTH FELLAS. ANYWAY.....THIS INFORMATION MIGHT BORE SOME AND I AM SORRY ABOUT THAT, BUT FOR THOSE WHO ARE INTERESTED IN THIS TYPE OF INFO....HERE IT IS.

SUPPLEMENTS NOW TAKING:

APPLE CIDER VINEGAR
GLUTAMINE
MILK THISTLE
DANDELION
ESTER-C
ULTRA REFINED FISH OIL
TAURINE
L-ARGENINE
L-CARNITINE
CITRUS PECTIN
L-ORNITHINE
MULTIVITAMIN
WHEY PROTEIN


SOON I AM GOING TO REINTRODUCE SOME OTHER QUALITY SUPPS....AS OF NOW I HAVE BEEN CLEAN FOR 5 WEEKS...HAD ONLY BEEN ON ORALS BEFORE THAT SO....I ACTUALLY HAVE BEEN CLEAN FOR A WHILE. I MIGHT AS WELL TAKE A BREAK FOR A DECENT TIME...AND CONTINUE SHRINKING! HAHAHA...AH, WELL, I CAN ALWAYS EAT A BUNCH AND GET BACK TO THE DARK SIDE. AS OF RIGHT NOW........I AM FEELING SO MUCH RELIEF THAT I AM GOING TO ENJOY IT FOR NOW!

 

[BigBoyJ]

It's good to hear you're healthy, Jethro. I'm glad. Watch out though, you might shrink up to a puny 260-270 lbs. You might blow away.

Really though, man. I'm glad to hear there were no permanent problems. Good news.

 

[xcelbeyond]

DOC SAYS A LIFTERS LIVER ENZYMES ARE TYPICALLY ELEVATED. IN FACT HE WENT ON TO STATE THAT AS LONG AS GGT LEVELS ARE NORMAL...SOMEONE WHO IS CONSTANTLY BREAKING DOWN MUSCLE TISSUE WILL HAVE ELEVATED ALT, AST, AND CPK LEVELS.

Glad to hear it's getting better. I was told this same thing by acid_doctor, a real doc that posted at the ol' GotFina board (RIP). Here it is:


From acid_doctor at Got Fina baord

See if your doc or lab have any of that same blood sample left in the lab (many times they will) and have them run a CPK and GGT. The CPK should be very high indicating what a stud you are in the weight room and that you tear the shit out of your muscles training them. Here's the MOST IMPORTANT POINT: the GGT should be NORMAL. If your GGT is normal, then your liver is normal and the AST, ALT values were artificially raised due to resistance training. At that point blow it off and don't waste anymore money chasing it. My guess is that unless you are taking large amounts of an oral steroid and have been for months, your liver is actually fine. Injectables have very little IF ANY effect on your liver.

Exercising doesn't matter as long as a CPK and GGT are included to help you (and your doctor) interpret the meaning of the tests. If the liver has damage the GGT will be elevated, PERIOD. The reason doctors don't routinely check the GGT is because the ratio of AST and ALT, when elevated, can help direct them as to which kind of liver damage the patient has and what tests might be needed next. GGT is a very specific enzyme for parenchymal liver (liver tissue) damage but it is elevated in ALL types of liver tissue damage therefore doen't point them in any particular direction. However, heavy resistance training is a very unique circumstance that is not considered because it is so rare in our society but it has the unique ability to raise the ALT and AST due to muscle damage and NOT due to liver damage. Whatever you do, be sure a GGT is checked. There is no need to wait. In fact I would be MORE interested in what your GGT is right now while your AST and ALT are up. I bet it's normal, but it should be checked. If it is abnormal then I would swear off oral gear for good.

I know I've posted this before

I'll bet my gut growing at a MUCH faster rate than you are shrinking!

We can compare at the Emerald! I'll try and give you a call soon - as you can tell, I'm bad at calling

 

[cryptasm]

The orals will do that to ya, bag the orals in the future if possible. injjections wont harm your liver at all except in extreem dosages..except for tren and stanazol.. from what i've read... I have Hep C and will only do injects, won't even do winstrol inject cuse it's still 17A and hard on the liver ( i need to be more carefull than most). If you want some more ammo to protect your liver and get those enzymes down faster here are some of the supps I take to protect mine. I take ALA, Liv 52, Super Milk Thistle (high sylbin content, its better than plain milk thistle) NAC (this keeps you Glutathione levels high and protects cell damage, aspecially in the liver) Drink 2 quarts of Dandilion root tea a day(flushes toxins from the blood and is a food for the liver), also SamE is a liver protectant...
Synthergine has alot of this stuff in it also so that is an option too, I'm gonna start using soon..
Keep it up and get those enzymes down, I have tests done every 3 monts and have never been out of normal ranges with these supplements.. Liv52 is amazing stuff and soo cheap do yourself a favor and add it in it will make a differnce.. Good luck take care o that liver.....and if you won't bag the orals at least think about using like 4 weeks on 4 weeks off or something like that in the future.. Peace

 

[JETHRO TULL]

XCEL......THANKS FOR POSTING THAT!!!

IT SURE AS HELL BACKS UP WHAT THE DOC TOLD ME! I AM JUST SOOOO FRIGGING RELIEVED! I HADN'T SEEN YOU POST THAT BEFORE! SHIT MAN...I'VE BEEN FREAKING OUT FOR 5 DAMB WEEKS. WE'LL MAKE QUITE A PAIR AT THE EMERALD....YOU SAY YOUR FAT.....I SAY I AM SMALL AND FAT! AT LEAST MY GIRLFRIEND LOOKS GOOD! YEAH, CALL ME UP SO WE CAN MAKE SOME PLANS! SHE'LL BE DRY, DRY.......IT SHOULD BE FUN. [BUT SHE WILL BE NOT SO FUN TILL SUNDAY! HAHAHA.....I WAS GONNA ASK PHIL TO HELP ME OUT BEFORE I RAN INTO THESE LIVER ISSUES AND WENT OFF DRUGS. SHE'S USING THE DIET I DID FOR THE PIC ON THE BANNER...SO SHE WON'T BE THE BIGGEST COMPETITOR, BUT SHE'LL BE DAMB LEAN.

 

[JETHRO TULL]

THANKS, BBJ.

It's good to hear you're healthy, Jethro. I'm glad. Watch out though, you might shrink up to a puny 260-270 lbs. You might blow away.

Really though, man. I'm glad to hear there were no permanent problems. Good news.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.....I WEIGHED 271 AGAIN TODAY...BUT WITH LESS MUSCLE AND I LOOK SOFTER. BEING TALL....I LOOK ABOUT 230....NO ONE GUESSES ME AT 270 AND THAT REALLY ANNOYS THE HELL OUT OF ME! HAHAA

 

[JETHRO TULL]

CYTOPLASM......I READ A BUNCH ABOUT HEPATITIS-C

AND I AM SORRY THAT YOU HAVE THAT SHIT. I AM GLAD YOU ARE ABLE TO STILL TRAIN AND 'SUPPLEMENT' SAFELY. OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE TAKING CARE OF YOURSELF. THANKS FOR THE INFO.....I ABSOLUTELY WILL USE IT. NO SHIT.

 

[JETHRO TULL]

MY CURRENT GGT LEVELS AS OF MARCH 21/2005.

I AM LOOKING AT MY RESULTS RIGHT NOW....

NORMAL GGT LEVELS ARE 0-50.

MY GGT LEVEL IS 18.

THAT IS CERTAINLY NOT ELEVATED....MY CHOLESTEROL IS NOT ELEVATED...SO I GUESS I AM GOOD TO GO!

CAN YOU SMELL WHAT THE ROCK IS COOKIN'? LOL.....

 

[rAJJIN]

hahaha

Jt is back on track...LOOK OUT.
I think Im smellin a future member of the month

Glad to here it buddy, good for you for taking the time and getting checked out! Something I probably need to do Myself.

 

[Mr Pickles]

not boring bro... good read

everyone should read it so they know what's up when they get theirs done



glad you're doing ok too

PS... take Loser in for a check up... he probably needs on

 

[jerrywear]

MUCH IMPROVEMENT FELLAS! [THANK GOD]


i am really ahppy to see you smiling bro.i guess we all knew that some of the things we takeing can bmp sumething on the docs charts.bt now at least you know that you were OK,you'll be OK.and you good to go for a next rond of two
really good to see you doing well

jerrywear

 

[cryptasm]

I'll die with it before I die from it!!!!

AND I AM SORRY THAT YOU HAVE THAT SHIT. I AM GLAD YOU ARE ABLE TO STILL TRAIN AND 'SUPPLEMENT' SAFELY. OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE TAKING CARE OF YOURSELF. THANKS FOR THE INFO.....I ABSOLUTELY WILL USE IT. NO SHIT.

Thanks Jethro, for your concern....yeah it sucks but for any of you younguns out there its true what your parents say "stupid things you do when your young have a way of coming back to haunt you" so don't do stupid shit!!!
Anyway glad ur feeling better but don't take those values lightly... I know all bodybuilders can have slightly elevated enzymes and the info you got was good info, however double normal is not slightly elavated....so be carefull bud..

 

[Geoffke]

How high was your free testosterone?

 

[Snarf]

I guess I'll play devil's advocate here. I am really skeptical of most "liver protectant" supplements out there.

Taking care of your liver is important and NOTHING can take the place of getting an LFT panel done when you are on cycle. Especially if you are hepatically compromised (Hep C) or have a history of elevated liver enzymes. I would never take these supplements and assume everything is ok and you don't need an LFT (Liver Function Test).

Most of the supplements listed are known for their anti-oxidative properties. However, the etiology of drug induced hepatotoxicity is not from free radical oxidation. These supps may help support liver function and may provide some small degree of increased capacity, so I can't say don't take them, but they will do nothing if your liver decides it doesn't like the gear you are on.

I really think some people are gaining a false sense of security from using these supps. Personally I think if you have a healthy liver and you take sane doseages of orals or don't do orals at all, these protectants are a waste of money.

I am not a hepatlogist but I have dealt with a particular drug for 8 years now that is very hepatotoxic so I see a lot of drug induced hepatitis and talk with physicians daily with how to manage these issues in patients. In fact, we have numerous patients die from the side effects of our drug. Beleive me with hundreds of millions of dollars on the line if we thought milk thistle or any other supp would help prevent these deaths, we would give away a bottle of it with every prescription.

Not trying to flame anyone who decides to take these supps. Its your body and protect it as you think is best. Just don't everestimate what they can do for you. Get your LFTs done regularly if you are on orals.

 

[JETHRO TULL]

THANKS RAJIN, I AM GLAD I HAD THE TESTS DONE.

Jt is back on track...LOOK OUT.
I think Im smellin a future member of the month

Glad to here it buddy, good for you for taking the time and getting checked out! Something I probably need to do Myself.

IF NOTHING ELSE...I AM GOING TO TAKE A GOOD BREAK AND I AM STILL HAVING FUN AT THE GYM...SO ALL IS WELL.

 

[JETHRO TULL]

PICKLES, CYTOPLASM, SNARF, JERRY, GEOFFKE

PICKO=THE CAT HAD TO TRAVEL DOWN HERE TO MY PARENTS...WE COULDN'T JUST LEAVE HIM CAUSE HE CAN'T EAT WITH THE CONE ON HIS HEAD! SO HE FREAKED OUT THE WHOLE WAY HERE IN HIS CAT TRAVEL CAGE. HE REALLY IS A LOSER.

CYTOPLASM- WE ALL DO DUMB SHIT WHEN WE ARE YOUNG...SOME ARE JUST LUCKIER THAN OTHERS.

JERRY- THANKS....I'LL BE EMAILING YOU AGAIN PRETTY SOON TO RAP ABOUT THE ARM TRAINING! HAHAHA......YOU'VE GOT SOME GREAT GUNS, MY FRIEND.

SNARF-I ENJOYED READING YOUR POST...HOW ARE YOUR PROFILES? WHAT I MEAN IS.....SINCE YOU LIFT ARE YOUR AST, ALT, CPK LEVELS ELEVATED AT TIMES? I AM REALLY CURIOUS ABOUT THAT.

GEOFFKE-DIDN'T INCLUDE THAT ON THE PANEL...I PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE AS THAT WOULD REALLY HAVE BEEN EDUCATIONAL...I WAS JUST MORE WORRIED ABOUT LIVER FAILURE AT THE TIME. I'LL BET MY ENDOGENOUS LEVELS ARE LOW RIGHT NOW....

 

[Snarf]

JT - on my last lab panel my AST/ALT were in the normal range but at the high end. This is what I expected since they have always been normal when I am on, and I don't do orals (anymore).

My CPK was elevated which is not surprising but kind of sucks. It would be nice to get a clean reading on this and I will retest when I am clean and haven't worked out in at least 48 hours.

However, I am not too worried. Elevated CPK indicates:

Heart attack
Myocarditis (inflammation of the heart muscle)
Central nervous system trauma or stroke
Convulsions
Delirium tremens
Dermatomyositis or polymyositis
Electric shock
Muscular dystrophies
Pulmonary infarction (lung tissue death)

I think I would already know if I was suffering from any of these becuase I wold have other symptoms as well.

 

[JETHRO TULL]

THANKS FOR SPENDING THE TIME TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION SNARF.

JT - on my last lab panel my AST/ALT were in the normal range but at the high end. This is what I expected since they have always been normal when I am on, and I don't do orals (anymore).

My CPK was elevated which is not surprising but kind of sucks. It would be nice to get a clean reading on this and I will retest when I am clean and haven't worked out in at least 48 hours.

However, I am not too worried. Elevated CPK indicates:

Heart attack
Myocarditis (inflammation of the heart muscle)
Central nervous system trauma or stroke
Convulsions
Delirium tremens
Dermatomyositis or polymyositis
Electric shock
Muscular dystrophies
Pulmonary infarction (lung tissue death)

I think I would already know if I was suffering from any of these becuase I wold have other symptoms as well.

I GUESS YOU WOULD NOTICE OTHER SYMPTOMS WITH THOSE AFFLICTIONS! AGAIN...THANKS.