Bloodwork study of 4iu GH vs MK677 (similar to 3.4 iu GH)

[tregar]

Overview of my research thus far:
IGF-1 range for my age group of 48 ------- 67 to 205 ng/ml igf-1
IGF-1 range for older adults ----------------- 59 to 225 ng/ml igf-1
IGF-1 range for young adults is ------------ 116 to 358 ng/ml igf-1

4-6-18, baseline igf -1 = 227 ng/ml------------------------------------------------- baseline
4-11-18, 2 days on 4iu of Pharm grade HGH from China = 380 ng/ml-------------increase of 153 points
4-25-18, 2 weeks on mk677 only = 372 ng/ml------------------------------------increase of 145 points (nearly 150 point increase only lasts 2 weeks)
9-7-18, 6 months on mk677 only = 322 ng/ml------------------------------------increase of 95 points
11-2-18, 8 months on mk677 only = 304 ng/ml-----------------------------------increase of 75 points (levels start to fall after 6 months on mk677)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
new year:
3-18-19, 4 weeks on mk677 only = 327 ng/ml-------------------------------------increase of 100 points, (2-22-19 thru 3-18-19 thus far)

Year 2018 = 322 ng/ml igf-1 (level at 6 months on 25mg mk677 in morning) is equivalent of 3.4 iu Pharm grade GH from China, as 95 point raise per each 1iu of hgh for me.

Year 2019 = 327 ng/ml igf-1 (after 1 month on 25mg mk677 in the am) is equivalent to 3.4 iu Pharm grade GH from China, as 95 point raise per each 1iu of hgh for me. Used 8 months from March - Oct 2019.

2-3-20, baseline igf-1 = 229 ng/ml igf-1------------------------------------------new baseline

2-24-20, began mk677 early morning dosage again (25mg), will take a blood reading in 4 weeks.

(1) baseline from 4-6-18 = 227
(2) baseline from 2-3-20 = 229
(3) Chinese Pharm grade GH, 4-11-18 on 4iu after 2 days = 380
(4) 2 weeks on mk677, 4-25-18 = 372 (nearly 150 point increase only lasts approx 2 weeks due to body kicking in self-regulating system)
(5) 6 months on mk677, 9-17-18 = 322
(6) 8 months on mk677, 11-2-18 = 304 (levels begin to drop from peak after 6 months just like in the study)
(7) 1 month on mk677, 3-18-19 = 327 (this 100 point increase is the level that is seen after 1 month, and also at 6 months)

 

[Cinder]

What brand is pharmacy grade from China

 

[guest1337]

How much MK677 were you running?

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

did you track blood glucose levels during the GH and MK runs? MK tends to really elevate my fasted BG levels...but GH dosed in the AM hasn't done it so far and I've been running mauve tops for 4 of the last 6 months.

 

[Rosconow]

How much mk in your research? 25mg?
When dosed?

Reason I'm asking is i do 3iu's gh upon waking (train 1 hour after), and 12.5mg mk before bed. Working well for me.

 

[tregar]

Thank you so much for the questions and kind replies.

Cinder asked "What brand is pharmacy grade from China"
Supertropin (used to treat dwarfism in the hospitals in China)

guest1337 asked "how much mk677 were you running"
25mg in the morning, first thing with coffee. I measure the powder out with a $100 gpr-20 AWS 20gx0.001g scale (best scale on the market). Highly recommend starting off at only 15mg, then raising your dose by 5mg every 3 days till you reach 25mg, as it is quite powerful, this allows better adjustment. Do this even if you have taken a long break from it, then on resume. I feel the anti-aging effects the very same day & every day thereafter: nootropic wellness, great mood & energy, sleep great but my sleep was already good. Literally the next day all the muscles feel & look full and all day pump. Feel like an 18 year old in the gym even though I am age 50...endurance and recovery ability is enhanced and studies on older adults have shown a 30% increase in strength over time with mk677 in leg press studies done on older adults. Collagen synthesis is increased, so your joints will thank you while on mk677, never had any joint issues while on it, and I lift heavy and only use test cyp/dianabol so joints can get dry normally. I stay on TRT year round. My first blast in several years was for 2 months recently going up to 600mg test cyp. I can not help you if you are one of the people that experience tiredness or lethargy from the compound. I am just the opposite, and experience increased well-being and energy with it, no lethargy at all. If you do experience tiredness maybe try a lower dose (10mg) or use HGH instead, peptides, or nothing at all.

Hunger pains die down a couple weeks into the mk677 cycle. I only use it for 6 to 7 months total, as then the levels begin to fall from the peak (just like the graph from the older adults mk677 study below). This I do to keep sensitivity at a maximum.

Possible hypertension and water retention is real just like with HGH, blood pressure while on a cycle of 600mg test cyp and then adding 25mg mk677 will raise BP slightly but I have noticed that if you stay on a year round ketogenic diet (Palumbo bodybuilder's high protein keto diet) that the water retention is minimal, bloating is greatly minimized, whereas if you eat significantly over 25g of carbs daily, the water retention will be quite a bit more. This mk677 compound is great for those on a keto diet. I stay just as strong on a keto diet as with a diet of carbs, and look just as great and full. Garlique, beet root extract, olive leaf extract, and celery seed extract are great herbs that all work to keep blood pressure 20 points lower in case your blood pressure should rise a little bit from the water retention, but again, the water retention is very minimal on a keto diet, with carbs it's a different story. I do take in 2 to 3 tablespoons of crunchy peanut butter for source of carbs and calories 1 hour pre-workout, this keeps workouts high strength and energy, this is known as "targeted keto diet" where carbs are introduced pre-workout for performance.

The importance of protein on the Palumbo keto diet: Where the Palumbo diet differs is in its insistence on elevated protein intake. Bodybuilding requires a high protein intake to build muscle mass. For most bodybuilders that means multiplying their body weight by 1.5 to get the number of grams of protein they should be consuming daily (for a 180 lb person then that would be 180 x 1.5 = 270, or 270 grams of protein daily). By consuming adequate amounts of protein, you prevent muscle tissue from being used as fuel.

Other dietary requirements of the Palumbo plan call for consuming .5 grams of fat for each pound of body weight.

Fast keto meal on the run: There is a Chipotle near my gym, so on the way home, I grab a bowl with "just 2 servings of chicken" (60g protein) and no other ingredients, and they only charge you for 2 sides of meat, then I add a side of avacado in a container, and total cost is only $7, cheap. Freebirds will let you make a seasoned chicken bowl with 3 servings of chicken for only $7.50 where I includes fajita vegetables and avacado on a keto diet. Keto diet is fun, you can eat flank steak cooked in fajita veggies (frozen onions & peppers mix from grocery store), whole chicken, sausage, whole eggs, cheese, avacado, protein shakes with 2 to 3 tablespoons of heavy whipping cream (no carb) for great flavor. Daily I also eat a mix of almonds and pecans (limit to 25 total) for extra potassium and minerals which you can also get from frozen spinach. Costco has very good flank steak, I buy two packs every 2 weeks. Fiber is a must in the morning on the diet.

Matsuo said
"did you track blood glucose levels during the GH and MK runs? MK tends to really elevate my fasted BG levels...but GH dosed in the AM hasn't done it so far and I've been running mauve tops for 4 of the last 6 months."

7 months in while taking it, I had labs done, mk677 had no detrimental effects on my insulin, glucose, A1c, etc.

Labs from Sept 26, 2018:

Insulin 8.2 uU/ml , normal, low =2.6, high = 24.9
Glucose: 89.0 mg/dl, normal, low = 70, high = 99
HbA1c: 5.1%, normal, low = 4.0, high = 5.6

Recommend you take 300mg of +R-ALA (Dr. Danielle Alpha Lipoic Acid, RALA, Extremely High Quality Alpha R Lipoic Acid (R-ALA)R- ALA 120 Capsules) before every meal x 3 times a day to help counteract and even improve insulin sensitivity while on either HGH or mk677, as yes, both will lower insulin sensitivity a bit, but this can be improved considerably with +R alpha lipoic acid, p.s. I get no hearburn from the above formula, best I have tried, and I have tried 3 different brands. I was not taking +R-ALA during the months the lab was taken above, but have since added it this year during my 7 month of the year mk677 25mg a day cycle.

Liver values also normal after 7 months of use:

ALT 26.0 u/L, normal, low =7, high =56.0
AST 21.0 u/L normal, low = 5, high = 35

Rosconow said:
"How much mk in your research? 25mg When dosed? Reason I'm asking is i do 3iu's gh upon waking (train 1 hour after), and 12.5mg mk before bed. Working well for me." Covered above, glad to hear the 3iu's upon awake and 12.5mg mk677 at bed is working great for you!

Notes:
A few pages about mk677 in the book "Grow Young with HGH" by Klatz too.
Also covered on page 360 of the "Anabolics 2006 anabolic steroid ref manual" by William Llewellyn.
**broken link removed**
**broken link removed**
hxxps://mindandmuscle.net/articles/beauty-modern-science-ibutamoren-mk-677/
**broken link removed**

 

[tregar]

Keep bloating minimal with a keto diet while on mk677, articles for those interested:

How to Build Muscle on the Ketogenic Diet: An Interview with bodybuilder Luis Villaseñor of Ketogains:

How to Build Muscle on the Ketogenic Diet: An Interview with Luis Villaseñor of Ketogains

Can you build muscle mass on a ketogenic diet? Luis Villaseñor ‘s results speak for themselves.

medium.com

hxxps://medium.com/better-humans/how-to-build-muscle-on-the-ketogenic-diet-an-interview-with-luis-villase%C3%B1or-of-ketogains-33ff65155740

The bodybuilder's Palumbo keto diet:
**broken link removed**
hxxps://www.ketogenicsupplementreviews.com/blog/the-palumbo-keto-diet/

 

[Rosconow]

Thanks for all the info. A wealth of knowledge.

 

[tregar]

I prefer using it with normal TRT doses to extend my strength, recovery & recuperation. I'm just coming off an 8 week 600mg test cyp, and just added the mk677 to work in conjuction with my normal 200mg of test. The blood pressure increase is only minimal and the expected 5 to 10 point increase. I have NO problems with it, side effect free and makes this 50 year old feel like an 18 year old in the gym. Best nootropic and anti-aging all in one using your body's own restricted HGH and igf-1 due to age caused somatostain. Works wonders on a day in day out high protein ketogenic diet where my carbs are kept lower than 30g a day. Carbohydrate intolerance is a thing of the past when on keto.

 

[tregar]

In my experience, and in the person's experience who wrote the article linked to below, the blood pressure increase (5 to 10 points) is only apparent during the first two weeks of mk677 therapy when water retention is at it's highest, the water retention dies down quite a bit after 2 weeks, and BP returns to normal. Remember that during the first two weeks, HGH and igf-1 levels with mk677 can reach the same effect of 4iu of pharm grade HGH from China, after 2 weeks the body kicks in a self regulatory system (this was shown in the beagles dog study on mk677, and with my own bloodwork studies) that keep it from getting no higher than around 3.5iu of pharm grade HGH, or around the level produced by a gifted 18 year old.

Another good paper on mk677: https://moreplatesmoredates.com/mk-677-best-hgh-alternative/
hxxps://moreplatesmoredates.com/mk-677-best-hgh-alternative/

Unlike the author however, I experience no lethargy with mk677, rather increased energy and nootropic sense of well-being all day long when I take it in the morning with coffee. He does however give a pointer for those who do experience lethargy, suggesting taking a dose right before bed to help to offset that a bit.

In a 2 month study on 24 healthy obese men using 25 mg of MK-677 per day, 3 kg (6 lbs) of lean muscle mass was gained in the MK-677 treated group compared to the placebo group. According to a DEXA scan, total body fat did not change during the study, equating to a gain of 6.62 pounds of muscle in the MK-677 treated group [R].

 

[tregar]

1) I'll be back one last time one week from now to post 4 week igf-1 levels after being on for one month, this being the 3rd year of use of mk677 for 7 months at a time (spring and summer mk677 use during the time when I visit the water park with season pass from March till Sept).

2) As stated in the studies, mk677 has extremely good nitrogen retention, and one of the reasons I like it alot as I typically fast after 3pm till 8am the next morning. I still get in my 220g of protein during the meals from breakfast till my last meal at 3pm. I also run at 4pm till 4:20pm on my off days from the gym, as well as stay on a high protein Palumbo keto diet year round. This all done to keep body fat around 13%. Insulin sensitivity is not as good as it was when I was younger, when I did not have to worry about diet or ever going above 13% fat. The mk677's nitrogen retention effects I have noticed helps me retain muscle and keeps me still often gaining in the gym even in a calorie deficit (so long as you keep your protein near or above 1.2g per lb of lean mass), just as Sheriff Mori mentions here:

"I run 5 miles each workout before my weights. I haven’t changed my calorie intake and I have still managed to increase my muscle set. The compound is bloody genius. I don’t really see it aiding fat loss if I’m honest. However it will help maintain and increase muscle set even in a calorie deficit."

Even though I was on a cycle of 600mg test cyp for the first time in 3 years during the past 2 months, I came off in 2 weeks ago, I had some pretty dramatic effects in the weight room while OFF the cycle just on 200mg a week TRT and 2 weeks after introducing the mk677 again, able to 2-hand press 80lb dumbbell behind head for triceps x 8 times, something I was not able to accomplish while on cycle, only making it to 75lbs. My bench press also felt much easier at my highest weight, and easily knocked out 8 reps of 225 when I used to struggle after 6 reps. This statement from Derek in the above article at platesanddates rings true in his section on "Mk677 review":

"I have used MK-677 a few times over the past couple years now, each time the results have been fairly dramatic, even while on moderate dosages of anabolic steroids."

3) The water retention & hunger pains during the first two weeks are noticeable, but after 2 weeks, I am always back to normal on the water retention and hunger pains die down to normal, allowing me to easily stay in calorie deficit if I so choose. The mk677 also works extremely well for those like myself on a year round high protein keto diet where carbs are kept below 30g most days (except for some carbs pre-workout for performance). I recommend taking a cap of +R-ALA (search amazon) before your 3 biggest meals to help keep your insulin sensitivity top notch. + R-ala has been proven to be even more effective then metformin. The studies don't lie on +r-ala, they are all over the web.

 

[tregar]

One month in on 3rd year of mk677, and I am at my best strength in the gym, I am at the same level of strength just on regular TRT (test at 200mg a week) + mk677 25mg in morning as where I was at on a 600mg test cyp a week/no mk677! I am very impressed. Only other thing I can compare it with is dianabol, just like what derrick mentions in his article at moreplatesmoredates on mk677. All weights are up from chest, triceps, shoulders to back/biceps and legs. very impressed. My protein is also at 220g a day.

The pumps are insane in the gym especially with the mk677 combined with Arachidonnic acid (1400mg taken right before workout with coffee)...The pumps and soreness is unbelievable. Highly recommend taking arachidonic acid on workout days only right before your workout...you will not believe the pumps just like in their reviews at amazon. Stuides have also proven many more added lbs of lean muscle pass per month compared to placebo for those using the arachionic acid.

"Thirty college-aged men were recruited for the study, and randomized into two groups. The men in the first group were given 1,500 mg of ARA daily, and the other an identical-looking placebo. All men followed a periodized resistance-training program for 8 weeks. At the end of the study, the group supplementing ARA reported significantly greater gains in lean body mass (3.6 lbs. vs. 0.2 lbs.). They also noticed an 88% greater increase in muscle thickness (.47 cm vs. .25 cm), and added significantly more strength to bench press and leg press (110 lbs. vs. 76 lbs.). Lastly, wingate peak anaerobic power was dramatically improved with ARA (78W vs. 28W), a 275% greater increase."

p.s. this is very good stuff for around $15. R+ALA has no burning sensation in digestive track, and the +R form is the form proven more effective than metformin in studies:

Allmax Nutrition, R+ALA, 60 Capsules

 

[tregar]

ONLY the +R-ala form is the form proven more effective then metformin, regular r-ala does not even come close.

The R+ entainomer caused a 34% increase in glucose uptake by skeletal muscle cells in response to insulin while those fed the S- entainomer had no improvement in blood glucose disposal (9).

(9) Streeper RS, Henriksen EJ, Jacob S, Hokama JY, Fogt DL, Tritschler HJ. Differential effects of lipoic acid stereoisomers on glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle. Am J Physiol. 1997 Jul;273(1 Pt 1):E185-91.

 

[aphextwin]

This is excellent information. Thanks for posting. I'm a huge fan of MK too. Also, I don't get bloated when I use it even if carbs aren't low.

 

[tregar]

Thanks aphextwin. I have been reading your posts for quite some time, and know you are a big fan too.

FYI:

ONLY the +R-ala form is the form proven more effective then metformin, regular r-ala does not even come close. Cheap +R-ala with reviews: Allmax Nutrition, R+ALA, 60 Capsules (only 150mg) google it. However, your best deal is still R-ALA from Dr. Danielle (amazon) which is 120 caps which contains 300mg +r-ala for under thirty dollars.

The R+ entainomer caused a 34% increase in glucose uptake by skeletal muscle cells in response to insulin while those fed the S- entainomer had no improvement in blood glucose disposal (9).

(9) Streeper RS, Henriksen EJ, Jacob S, Hokama JY, Fogt DL, Tritschler HJ. Differential effects of lipoic acid stereoisomers on glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle. Am J Physiol. 1997 Jul;273(1 Pt 1):E185-91.

How +R-ala is better than metformin:

The observed stimulation of glucose uptake by the various antidiabetic agents (sulfonylureas, the biguanide metformin, and an emerging number of thiazolidinediones) was much less prominent than the effect of α-lipoic acid. This potent antioxidant was also able to improve insulin-stimulated glucose transport in different animal models of type 1 and 2 diabetes (1).

(1) The Antihyperglycemic Drug α-Lipoic Acid Stimulates Glucose Uptake via Both GLUT4 Translocation and GLUT4 Activation, Daniel Konrad1,2, Romel Somwar1,3, Gary Sweeney1,Karen Yaworsky1, Michiko Hayashi1, Toolsie Ramlal1 and Amira Klip1,3, Diabetes 2001 Jun; 50(6): 1464-1471

 

[aphextwin]

Thanks, Tregar. I will look into buying the +R-ala version. I've been using 1200 mg of regular ALA a day just for health reasons.

 

[IronLion2]

Whats everyones favorite brand of MK?? Ive had hit or miss suppliers and want to jump back in

 

[Mike Arnold]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You know everyone loves MA products.

 

[cmryan]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You know everyone loves MA products.

Mike, your products are some of my favorites. I can't do mk because the water retention is just WAY too much for some reason. But it is from pretty much any GH elevation (I was getting venous ulcers on my lower right leg from my first cycle of 1.5-2iu GH).

But from aterall, veda, gw are awesome! Never got to try vicaine which kinda bums me out lol.

 

[aphextwin]

Yes, MA's products are all good to go. I only use his MK, GW, MT2...etc. His Clen is potent, and T3 is on point as well. I've got where I don't trust all these others suppliers. Not only that, but Mike takes care of his people. I don't know him personally, but when I've had any issues that needed to be handled, he's on top of things. When I talk about issues, there's NEVER been a product issue with the guy.