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Building a foundation

b-boy

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one thing that truly puzzles me these days is why dont guys want to build a solid foundation before they jump on the super sauce? A lot of pics I see of guys and they list their cycles they look like the average guy at my gym, a guys who has about a year of lifting under his belt bench presses 150 lbs goes on a cycle of test and deca and dbol? WTF? Get your fucking ass in the gym CONSISTENTLY, learn how to eat and do it consistently, build up a little strength by progressive overload and nutrient dense diet, then try hitting the sauce. Guys haven't even tapped into their natty potential and jump on cycle with no base knowledge of training or nutrition. Some of you may think I'm a dick for posting this and YES its your body, your life but damn you are missing out on so much growth by going this route.

Ok rant over!
 
Because most people want it NOW. 5 minute abs is way more appealing than 15 month abs even tho it’s 100% horseshit.
 
Because most people want it NOW. 5 minute abs is way more appealing than 15 month abs even tho it’s 100% horseshit.

It's 6 minute abs. Everyone knows you can't get a workout in 5 minutes. Kidding aside, I agree with the point of the post. I also think many start with way too high a dose on most things.
 
It's 6 minute abs. Everyone knows you can't get a workout in 5 minutes. Kidding aside, I agree with the point of the post. I also think many start with way too high a dose on most things.
I knew I was doing something wrong.
 
I'm VERY glad I waited until I was 35. I wanted to jump on several times but ended up stalling because I was still satisfied with progress when I MADE SURE I was nailing everything down training and nutrition wise. Most guys I know on gear barely look like they lift and the dosages they admit to are often just fuckin retarded. You still have guys thinking your first cycle should be a half gram plus of test. How about half that, track your training and diet, nail those down and run the fuckin shit out of 250 until you don't get any more out of it. I did not take that advice (never went higher on test but threw in other compounds) but I did what I set out to do, that would just be my newbie advice to another newbie.

Look at the Vertical Diet we're talking about. Again, I'm NOT trying to undersell it, but it works because it's fuckin simple and your body likes it. What does almost every guy get big on? Meat and rice! Or potatoes, oats, whatever. Justin Harris, "if you're not eating meat and rice, you're not doing what I want you to do"

Meat and rice, progressive eating to find your ceiling
Progressive lifting paying mind to recovery, obviously
Supplement with supplements, including gear

Follow those and anyone is gonna be a big boy, eventually.
 
It's 6 minute abs. Everyone knows you can't get a workout in 5 minutes. Kidding aside, I agree with the point of the post. I also think many start with way too high a dose on most things.

Great reference from The Whole Nine Yards!
 
Agree 100% with this. It's so easy now to find all the drugs you want on the internet, that guys never take the time to find out what they could have achieved naturally, which is usually a lot more than you would think, IF AND ONLY IF you apply yourself to hard work in the gym and at the dinner table.

I started lifting in 1985 (yes, I'm old), and my first seven years of lifting, from 17 to 24, I was natural, or at least I didn't take steroids. I did take caffeine and ephedrine to get up for workouts, and amino acids, protein powders, and the other rudimentary supplements available at the time, back in the 80's and early 90's.

But I trained like a maniac, and force fed myself huge quantities of eggs, ground beef, milk, cottage cheese, tuna, rice, oatmeal and other "bodybuilder food." I went from a 155 lb high school senior, to a 255 lb college senior, all without touching steroids. I had no great genetics, but I could bench over 300, squat over 400, and deadlift over 500, all for reps regularly in workouts. I didn't look cut and ripped, like a bodybuilder. But I had a big, strong, football player-type body and foundation after 7 years of hard training and hard eating.

And when I was finally ready to do my first cycle, I cut down to 230 naturally, then blew up to over 270 bulking up on 500mg per week of Sustanon and massive calories for ten weeks. Everybody at the gym was telling me how huge I was, and finally looked like a bodybuilder. And it only got better from there, from what would be considered minimal cycles today (500mg test per week or 400mg Deca per week). But it never would have happened, at least not so well, if I hadn't already built a big, strong, foundation naturally to build on.

The drugs should always only be there to enhance the effects of the training and eating. That's an easy lesson to forget once you start going down that path, and I've certainly been guilty of that myself. But too many young guys today are going straight to massive quantities of drugs, never coming off, and never building that solid foundation in the first place.
 
Nothing will ever replace proprioception, you can always tell who gets biomechanics and who doesn't. Start abusing hormones before you understand movement and your likely making the issue worse.
 
These idiots also believe the sauce works muuuch faster than it actually does.
They have a skinny/fat look. Dont understand training and nutrition and think the piece of the puzzle they are MISSING is gear. They think that if they juuust were on some tren, they'd look like those dudes in the magazine.

NOPE. Thats not how it works.

Thats the most annoying thing to me. People don't understand HOW LONG this shit takes. They think 4 months in the gym, throw in some tren and you look like a men's physique model. NOPE. Very frustrating.
 
The drugs should always only be there to enhance the effects of the training and eating. That's an easy lesson to forget once you start going down that path, and I've certainly been guilty of that myself. But too many young guys today are going straight to massive quantities of drugs, never coming off, and never building that solid foundation in the first place.
EXACTLY^^^^ 100%
 
To me PEDs should be icing on the cake. Ever tried to build a sheet cake out of icing and a muffin?

I started a bit early but it was based around succeeding in athletic endeavors.
 
Not "building a foundation" before juice is nothing new. Majority of bodybuilding legends started as teens, mid-teens or even early teens. Arnold started at 13 according to his Austrian trainer. Might be BS but he wasn't out of his teens when he started.
Bodybuilding is a young man's game, there's not much time to wait if you wanted to maximize your physique. If someone busted his ass naturally until his 30s it's already too late, age is already a limiting factor. Arnold or Lee Haney were already permanently out of the game at that age.
I've seen a lot of pros preach patience and building a foundation. If Lee Priest preaches patience and how it all takes years and years, how can you take it seriously when he already won a show at freaking 13 years old! Lol. Busted for roids at 17 and a pro at 19. What patience?

Several decades ago some future bodybuilding champions were put on Deca and Dbol by doctors at 14 or 15 years old. Evidently you don't need much of a foundation before steroids to "make it" in bb, you don't even need to be fully grown! :D
In fact, steroids when still a child might help "alter genetics" more. Healthy? No. More effective? Probably.

If someone were to push steroids hard at some point in their life you could argue that it's better to do so when young. Of course the problem is that often people might push them hard for too long and then runt into problems.

I know I'm a bit contrarian here, but I've thought about this a lot over the years and these are just my personal opinions:)
 
Kids get overwhelmed: all those lifting routines, all those sets, all the gimmicks. Then a lot of people are introduced to weight can training through the perspective of a sport, concentrating on that function instead of a balanced physique.

If some one could get them into a consistent, mentally stable routine, then that is the foundation of body and habituation. Hell, begin with six work sets a minimum of twice a week and build from there, then collapse back to the minimum again if they have to. Secondly, eat, it's not that hard of a thing for most, but some just really don't understand, and some have a hard time obtaining/affording the required protein.

Third, it's hard to defer the steroids for later when others are not. You see a genetically gifted teenager eat crap, lift half-assed, pop 'roids, and attract attention while gaining acclaim, then you really feel like it's something that you can't leave on the table. A person needs the support of a wisdom that they'll truly trust for making the right plan.
 
Not "building a foundation" before juice is nothing new. Majority of bodybuilding legends started as teens, mid-teens or even early teens. Arnold started at 13 according to his Austrian trainer. Might be BS but he wasn't out of his teens when he started.
Bodybuilding is a young man's game, there's not much time to wait if you wanted to maximize your physique. If someone busted his ass naturally until his 30s it's already too late, age is already a limiting factor. Arnold or Lee Haney were already permanently out of the game at that age.
I've seen a lot of pros preach patience and building a foundation. If Lee Priest preaches patience and how it all takes years and years, how can you take it seriously when he already won a show at freaking 13 years old! Lol. Busted for roids at 17 and a pro at 19. What patience?

Several decades ago some future bodybuilding champions were put on Deca and Dbol by doctors at 14 or 15 years old. Evidently you don't need much of a foundation before steroids to "make it" in bb, you don't even need to be fully grown! :D
In fact, steroids when still a child might help "alter genetics" more. Healthy? No. More effective? Probably.

If someone were to push steroids hard at some point in their life you could argue that it's better to do so when young. Of course the problem is that often people might push them hard for too long and then runt into problems.

I know I'm a bit contrarian here, but I've thought about this a lot over the years and these are just my personal opinions:)
Most of those teens that became good pros were more advanced at 16yrs old than most guys i see on this board on their 2nd cycle. Those teens trained and ate their ass off (most were guided by advanced older guys).
If there were some teens on this board that were strong, knew how to eat, and trained hard i would have no problem telling them to jump on the sauce, my point was guys dont train worth a fuck and not consistently and the majority of their diet is bullshit food (i personally wouldn't even call it a diet) yet they are here to get information on how to run their first cycle of test deca and dbol...WHAT A FUCKING JOKE these will be the guys that later on complain that they don't respond to "LOWER DOSES" and the rest of the guys on the board will be praising them for their huge cycle that it takes for them to look like a regular gym rat.
 
BOOOOOOO Disappointed Bboy.......I opened this hoping for a lecture on forming the basic foundation of a pro drug protocol.........







I kid;) and I agree. For the record, most of these guys are using pre-workouts for their first workout. Guys come in all the time stating they are going to START lifting and "need," a pre. Most cannot give me a ballpark number for their protein intake but insist on a pre first, ugh. I sell them what they want but try to get them at least set up with a protein and creatine first but not many listen.
 
Most of those teens that became good pros were more advanced at 16yrs old than most guys i see on this board on their 2nd cycle. Those teens trained and ate their ass off (most were guided by advanced older guys).
If there were some teens on this board that were strong, knew how to eat, and trained hard i would have no problem telling them to jump on the sauce, my point was guys dont train worth a fuck and not consistently and the majority of their diet is bullshit food (i personally wouldn't even call it a diet) yet they are here to get information on how to run their first cycle of test deca and dbol...WHAT A FUCKING JOKE these will be the guys that later on complain that they don't respond to "LOWER DOSES" and the rest of the guys on the board will be praising them for their huge cycle that it takes for them to look like a regular gym rat.


in a land where ppl still inject in gym bathrooms i will tell you i have seen someone sign up for gym membership and cycle all in the same go. lol

literally no experience and right to gear. well i think he lifted for a cpl months in hs and may have played sports. but im talking big fat 20 yo kid, seems common to think go to gym and start gear like a protein shake.

i couldnt bit my tongue over how irisponsible it was. the gym owner was selling this kid gear and injecting him with it as of course he couldnt do that either. that was normal though.... lol
 
After spending a few months doing leg extensions and flies and cheat curls, they don't get huge so they must have bad genetics and need AS!
 
If we're talking about grooming kids to be bodybuilders with steroids, then all that is going to change anyways, to the extreme. For that level? Soon, you'll need to be sponsored by a team, by a lab. The word is stem cells and beyond. It's Myoblast Transfer therapy. They take a sample of your cells, proliferate them outside your body, them reinject them within an ECM serum of many factors. A kid could basically start as a young adult at a whole new level.

A big factor leading to PED testing was an objection towards the way totalitarian states would sacrifice their citizens with extreme measures. I just don't know anymore because people choose to do it to themselves on their own free will. Where this is all going? As healthy as it could be, someone will take it one step further towards an unhealthy self sacrifice. We talk about it all the time here.
 
...and they start off cycling right from the beginning thinking it's the drugs that give the results (when in fact the drugs are just a catalyst), these are same ones that don't get the "magical" results they expect, then think they are "low responders" and crank the doses up to crazy amounts...
 

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