bulking how to add hardness

[jamee1]

Guys Im just about to start on a 12 week dbol, sus, deca course
50mg bol daily weeks 1 - 6
750 sus weekly weeks 1- 12 tapering up from 500 to 750 and down again per week
500 deca weekly - weeks 1 - 8 tapering down

can anyone suggest an add in that would keep water bloat down and add hardness or should i get harder leaner after this heavy bulking course ?? is this a good course to get max bulk etc ? any advice greatly received

 

[The Wolf]

Take 20mg nolvadex and proviron and that should keep the bloat down and keep you looking hard. It worked for me.

 

[rotty]

I don't think you need to taper the test. The test is self tapering all on its own

 

[rrozell]

imo if you are going for hardness you are probaly taking the wrong compounds. these are primarily use for mass. not that it is not possible but taking anti e will counteract some of the effects these compounds are known for. but to answer the ? yes novl or arim will cut some of the bloat, you can also watch your diet very closely. but doing both of these will cause you not to put on as much weight.

 

[MAINEVENT]

Bulking and hardness to me are like oxymorons.....but I get what you are asking. What your really after is minimizing water bloat, right?


I would agree with the post above about the nolva and proviron, or maybe aromasin instead. Its all for nothing without the proper diet though

 

[kidstuff]

you can freeze yourself

 

[km2000]

diet bro, if your consuming too much sodium and the electrolytes are out of whack you will retain water! always look at the diet befor you ask for a drug to minimize side effects, if your trying to add muscle you will probably seem a little softer for a lot of reasons. you have plenty of drugs to bulk on, watch your diet and keep bloodwork in check and you will grow like a weed!

 

[Chuck999]

This is a little off your topic, but for me 6 weeks of 50mg dbol would be a little hard on my liver. I usually keep dbol to about 4 weeks. I know some people take it for long periods, but that has to do some bad things to your liver. Synthergrine is great stuff, and helps. I always do some with any orals, but you still might be beating up your liver with 6 weeks of 50mg a day on dbol.

Any of our old-pro experts have any thoughts about how long to run dbol, and what to do for sides (besides Synthergrine)? I'm probably just being a wuss.


Chuck999

 

[takinitinth ass]

If you have never had your liver values checked after a Dbol cycle you have no idea what its doing or not doing to your liver.

You can say this and that all day long, we have all heard it and heard the opposite.

 

[Chuck999]

For whatever its worth, I have had my liver values checked off and on both during and after a cycle. Obviouslly this is usually more important when you are doing orals. A few months back, did Anavar, with some injectibles, for 4 weeks - got my liver tested and it came back real high. Immeditely got some Synthergrine, and upped my ALA and Milk Thistle. Did two more weeks on the Var and about three weeks later got checked again. Liver values totallly normal. Since I had only been off the Var for a week at that time, I attribute the improvment to the Synthegrine, mainly, and the other stuff. But remember, Var is generally much easier on your liver than dbol (at least I understand thats the conventional wisdom).

I've also been checked after a few weeks on dbol, and my liver numbers were bad. Got better within a few weeks after I finished the dbol.

 

[takinitinth ass]

Now thats some good info! Thanks for that bro...

 

[Dog-Slime]

I dont see how nolva would keep bloat down? Proviron would to a degree. Some l-dex or letro would be best. I dont think you will get much out of the dbol if you dont let it bloat you up tho.

 

[drgoodbody]

Letrozole, arimidex, formestane, exemstane, - pretty much any later generation aromatase inhibitor or aromatase binding compound will help control estrogen. I personally like formestane best but it is hard to find (has both estrogen binding and anti-dht properties).

Nolvadex won't do much as it works to block estrogen receptors (it is a SERM), and prevent estrogen that is already free in your system from binding. (actually it binds to the E-receptor selectively and prevents the estrogen from doing so - and yes, this is a simplified description).

Here is something I wrote a while back, not exhaustive but may help you understand how some of these drugs work.

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12852&highlight=drgoodbody+estrogen

Oh and as for dose, well it depends on which anti-e you use. Here's what works from me (on about 750mg of test/week). And NO, I don't use all these together, just pick one!!!

Arimidex - 0.5mg EOD
Letrozole - 2.5mg EOD or less
Formestane - 200mg injected once per week

Oh and I find that I need prolactin control too if on deca or tren, so I use bromocriptine (2.5mg EOD) or sometimes cabergoline.

hope this helps,

DrG

 

[The Wolf]

You dont know how nolva would keep the bloat down? When I take something like dbol and dont take nolva I look like a fat bastard, when I take nolva it gets rid of some of the water retention, hardens me up and blocks the estrogen. Simple as that.

 

[drgoodbody]

I know exactly how nolvadex works, and I've used more of it than you could possibly imagine over the years. I said it won't do much - I didn't say it won't do anything. It is not the best drug for estrogen control, but it helps once estrogen levels are already elevated to keep it from binding. It is better than nothing - but there are FAR better approaches to staying dry.

DrG

 

[The Wolf]

How much mg do you take of it a day, I know people that take 10, imo if you take less than 20 than your wasting it.

 

[drgoodbody]

20mg Nolvadex per day is ok, sometimes more if I felt a little tingle in the nips. Usually my left one let's me know, LMAO!

Actually an excellent estrogen control is Formestane + nolvadex (stops additional estrogen from being liberated and blocks whatever is already free in your system). That along with Bromocriptine to control prolactin and I can crank up the dose and look and feel unbelievably normal. No bloat, no moon face, no blood pressure issues and my lipids stay reasonably well controlled (HDL/LDL ratio, etc). Oh and my sex drive is solid and performance is about as close to normal as I can get on cycle (feel, duration, etc.) It has taken me a lot of experimentation with my body to get to know what works.

Be happy to answer more questions.

DrG

PS: I haven't posted on here for a long while (even tho I've been a member since 02) because I didn't think ppl gave a shit despite the science.

 

[flexmaster]

20mg Nolvadex per day is ok, sometimes more if I felt a little tingle in the nips. Usually my left one let's me know, LMAO!

Actually an excellent estrogen control is Formestane + nolvadex (stops additional estrogen from being liberated and blocks whatever is already free in your system). That along with Bromocriptine to control prolactin and I can crank up the dose and look and feel unbelievably normal. No bloat, no moon face, no blood pressure issues and my lipids stay reasonably well controlled (HDL/LDL ratio, etc). Oh and my sex drive is solid and performance is about as close to normal as I can get on cycle (feel, duration, etc.) It has taken me a lot of experimentation with my body to get to know what works.

Be happy to answer more questions.

DrG

PS: I haven't posted on here for a long while (even tho I've been a member since 02) because I didn't think ppl gave a shit despite the science.

what would you say is the best way to use exemestane? skip told me to use either 12.5mg ed or 25mg eod. is there anything else you would suggest adding to this if someone is using say 1g test e, +/- 600mg eq and/or +/- 400mg deca. bloat and gyno is the main concern.

 

[The Wolf]

Bromocriptine, yeah I remember the doctors were gonna give me that after my blood test and they thought I had a brain tumour, it turns out it was the gearl, lol! I will look into Formestane, where I am arimidex is very hard to find.

 

[drgoodbody]

what would you say is the best way to use exemestane? skip told me to use either 12.5mg ed or 25mg eod. is there anything else you would suggest adding to this if someone is using say 1g test e, +/- 600mg eq and/or +/- 400mg deca. bloat and gyno is the main concern.

I think that is fine. Here is what I would use:

Exemestane: 25mg EOD (half life is approx 1 day, so EOD is fine)
Nolvadex: 20mg EOD (half life is ~5 days, so EOD is plenty)
Bromocriptine: 2.5mg ED (half life is ~10hrs)
Finasteride: 1.25mg ED (half life is ~6hrs)

I use these to (1) control estogen, (2) control prolactin, (3) control DHT. Deca sometimes causes progesterone issues, so if I had to add anything it would be Mifepristone if needed (hard to get but very potent to control progesterone). I would try it without the progesterone control and see if you have any symptoms (nips again would let you know).

Your cycle is a litte unusal, well for me anyway, as I find Deca and Eq to be similar, and I prefer Eq since it typically has fewer sides (deca dick, DHN driven hairloss). Honestly, I would use Trenbolone instead of Deca unless you have issues with Tren.

hope this helps, ask if you have questions,

DrG