• All new members please introduce your self here and welcome to the board:
    http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
M4B Store Banner
intex
Riptropin Store banner
Generation X Bodybuilding Forum
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Mysupps Store Banner
IP Gear Store Banner
PM-Ace-Labs
Ganabol Store Banner
Spend $100 and get bonus needles free at sterile syringes
Professional Muscle Store open now
sunrise2
PHARMAHGH1
kinglab
ganabol2
Professional Muscle Store open now
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
boslabs1
granabolic1
napsgear-210x65
monster210x65
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
DeFiant
UGFREAK-banner-PM
STADAPM
yms-GIF-210x65-SB
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
wuhan2
dpharma
marathon
zzsttmy
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
azteca
crewguru
advertise1x
advertise1x
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store

Cabergoline....YIKES!!

Max32

New member
Registered
Joined
Oct 13, 2005
Messages
524
Took this over from anabolicminds, posted by SKYE. Pretty scary in regards to those that look to offset any prolactin issues....

Parkinson's Drugs Can Damage Heart Valves
01.03.07, 12:00 AM ET

WEDNESDAY, Jan. 3 (HealthDay News) -- Two drugs commonly used to treat Parkinson's disease can cause harm to heart valves, according to two studies in the Jan. 4 New England Journal of Medicine.

The drugs, pergolide and cabergoline, are both from a class of medications called "ergot-derived dopamine receptor agonists." Ergot is a fungus, and ergot-derived drugs are used not only in the treatment of Parkinson's but also for restless leg syndrome and migraine headaches.

Ergot-derived dopamine receptor agonists were also in the now banned diet drug Fen-phen -- also associated with heart valve disease.

"We uncovered the biomedical reason why Fen-phen had particular side effects on the heart," said Dr. Bryan L. Roth, of the Department of Pharmacology at the University of North Carolina and author of an accompanying journal editorial.

"We evaluated other medications and predicted that they would have the same side effect on the heart," he said. "Our predictions were verified in these two studies."

Based on the new findings, Roth wants the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to look at all drugs that have this side effect with an eye to banning pergolide (brand named Permax) and cabergoline (Dostinex). "This side effect is very dangerous," he said. "It could result in an individual's death or undergoing valve replacement surgery," he added.

These types of drugs interact with a receptor in the heart valve, causing the valve to overgrow and become floppy and leaky, Roth explained.

In the first report, Dr. Edeltraut Garbe, from the Institute of Clinical Pharmacology, Charite, University Medicine, Berlin, and colleagues collected data on more than 11,000 people 40 to 80 years of age who were taking anti-Parkinson's drugs between 1988 and 2005.

The researchers found that, among 31 patients with newly diagnosed cardiac valve problems, six were taking pergolide, six were taking cabergoline, and 19 had not taken any dopamine agonist in the past year.

Almost 30 percent of the patients taking pergolide or cabergoline were at increased risk for heart valve problems.

"In this study, use of the dopamine agonists pergolide and cabergoline was associated with an increased risk of newly diagnosed cardiac-valve regurgitation," the authors concluded.

In the second study, a team of Italian researchers led by Dr. Renzo Zanettini, from the Istituti Clinici di Perfezionamento, Milan, studied 155 patients taking dopamine agonists for Parkinson's disease. Among these patients, 64 were taking pergolide, 49 were taking cabergoline, and 42 were taking non-ergot-derived dopamine agonists. In addition, there were 90 controls.

Zanettini's group found that about 23 percent of the patients taking pergolide had heart valve problems, as did about 29 percent of the patients taking cabergoline.

In contrast, none of the patients taking non-ergot-derived dopamine agonists had a heart problem, while 5.6 percent of the control patients did.

In addition, patients who took higher doses of pergolide or cabergoline had more advanced heart valve disease, the researchers reported.

"The frequency of clinically important valve regurgitation was significantly increased in patients taking pergolide or cabergoline, but not in patients taking non-ergot-derived dopamine agonists, as compared with control subjects," the researchers wrote. "These findings should be considered in evaluating the risk-benefit ratio of treatment with ergot derivatives," they concluded.

"If you have Parkinson's, you need to find out from your doctor if you're taking a medication that could cause this risk of serious heart damage," Roth said. "I would recommend not prescribing these medications at all. Our hope is that these two studies will encourage the FDA to remove these drugs from use."
 
also this one......

Parkinson’s drugs may be riskier than thought
Heart valve problems linked to two medications, studies find
Parkinson's drugs riskier than thought - More Health News - MSNBC.com

Jan 3, 2007

The risk of heart valve damage with two drugs for Parkinson’s disease may be far greater than was known, new research suggests.

The drugs are not the main treatment for Parkinson’s, but one is also sometimes used to treat restless legs syndrome.

A study by Italian researchers found that roughly one-fourth of Parkinson’s patients taking pergolide or cabergoline, sold as Permax, Dostinex and other brands, had moderate to severe heart valve problems. Another study, by German doctors, found that users of either drug were five to seven times more likely to have leaky heart valves than those on other types of Parkinson’s medications. Both studies were reported in Thursday’s New England Journal of Medicine.

“This is an extraordinarily high risk,” said Dr. Bryan Roth, a pharmacology professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

“It’s a bad side effect. As far as I know, there are no medications that can reverse it,” and valve replacement surgery is the only solution, he said.

Roth had no role in the studies but directs a drug screening program for the National Institute of Mental Health. He also published a paper several years ago warning that these drugs appeared to trigger the same heart-related mechanism that the fen-phen diet combination did. The diet pills, sold as Pondimin and Redux, were pulled from the market in 1997 after they were linked to valve problems.

One of the Parkinson’s drugs — pergolide, sold as Permax and other brands — also is used to treat restless legs syndrome. Cabergoline, sold as Dostinex, Cabaser and other names, is mostly used in Europe.

About half a million people had taken Permax during its first 14 years on the market when its developer, Eli Lilly and Co., added valve damage to the potential side effects listed on the package insert in 2003. But the company said the risk was extremely low — five in 100,000 users.

Roth believed there were more cases, a theory he said the new studies confirmed.

“This is an example of, if you don’t look for it, you don’t see it,” said Dr. C. Warren Olanow, chairman of neurology at Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York, who had no role in the work. The findings will lead more doctors to prescribe other Parkinson’s treatments, he said.

About 1.5 million Americans and 6 million people worldwide have Parkinson’s disease, which results in tremors, loss of muscle control and sometimes death.

It’s caused by a lack of the brain chemical, dopamine. The main treatment is levodopa, which spurs the body to make more dopamine. Pergolide and cabergoline often are given in addition to that drug or in place of it, especially if symptoms worsen over time.

In one study, Dr. Renzo Zanettini and others at the Instituti Clinici di Perfezionamento in Milan obtained echocardiogram images of the hearts of 155 patients taking various Parkinson’s medications and a comparison group of 90 healthy people.

Moderate to severe valve problems were seen in 23 percent of those on pergolide and nearly 29 percent of those on cabergoline but none of those on other Parkinson’s drugs and less than 6 percent of the comparison group. The study was paid for by the Milan clinic and two Parkinson’s foundations.

In the other study, Dr. Rene Schade and colleagues in Berlin and in Montreal used records from more than 11,400 Parkinson’s patients in the United Kingdom. The rate of newly diagnosed leaky valves was increased among pergolide and cabergoline users but not the others, they found. The Canadian government and a drug company provided partial support for the study. Many researchers in both studies have consulted for Parkinson drug makers.

Pergolide sales have dropped in recent years but still amounted to more than $10 million last year in the United States, according to IMS Health, a health care information firm.

The rights to Permax in the U.S. now belong to Valeant Pharmaceuticals of Aliso Viejo, Calif. A company statement said Permax is safe and effective, but Valeant is no longer promoting the product. All such drugs should be used “with caution,” the statement says.

Cabergoline is approved in the U.S. for treating a hormone problem, excessive prolactin in the blood, but not Parkinson’s.

Roth has been urging companies developing new drugs to test for the mechanism involved in the Parkinson and fen-phen pills, saying those that that have it shouldn’t be sold.

Other articles on same topic:

**broken link removed**

Heart-Valve Disease Linked to Two Parkinson's Drugs - CME Teaching Brief® - MedPage Today
 
WOW. I've taken .5mg 2x per week for a good 1.5years now. How serious do you think this study is? How could this just be coming up now? Im going in asap for a heart checkup. I just got bloodwork back in yesterday and everything heart related, hemocrit,etc...came back perfect. But I def want a better test. What would you all recommend. Maybe an EKG?
 
Last edited:
Well some good news is that the average parkinson's dose is between 14-42mg per week where most bb'ers take .5-1mg per week. Thats comforting, but the combo of gh and aas with it is still scaring the shit out of me. I better switch over to bromo to combat sides while on GH and aas that cause prolactin buildup. :( Im scared
 
fourthgen said:
Well some good news is that the average parkinson's dose is between 14-42mg per week where most bb'ers take .5-1mg per week. Thats comforting, but the combo of gh and aas with it is still scaring the shit out of me. I better switch over to bromo to combat sides while on GH and aas that cause prolactin buildup. :( Im scared

Maybe, maybe not: note my bolded text below.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1: Mov Disord. 2006 Nov 8; [Epub ahead of print]

Valvular heart disease in Parkinson's disease patients treated with dopamine agonists: A reader-blinded monocenter echocardiography study.

* Junghanns S,
* Fuhrmann JT,
* Simonis G,
* Oelwein C,
* Koch R,
* Strasser RH,
* Reichmann H,
* Storch A.

Department of Neurology, Technical University of Dresden, Dresden, Germany.

Fibrotic valvular heart disease (VHD) has been reported in association with ergot dopamine agonists (DAs), but the current database is insufficient regarding clinical relevance and comparison to data on non-ergot DAs. We evaluated the effects of four DAs (pergolide, cabergoline, ropinirole, pramipexole) on morphology and function of heart valves in patients with Parkinson's disease (PD) to determine the frequency and clinical relevance of DA-induced VHD. A total of 85 patients treated with ergot or non-ergot DAs and 38 age-matched controls were evaluated by transthoracic echocardiography. Valvular pathology was assessed by established criteria of valvular regurgitation and a VHD scoring system. Both grading systems revealed increased frequency of VHD in ergot DA patients compared to both non-ergot DA patients and controls with 22% of ergot DA patients having moderate VHD versus 3% of non-ergot DA patients and none of controls (P = 0.001). We did not find correlations of echocardiographic findings with duration/cumulative dose of treatment, age, or vascular risk factors. Our data suggest that ergot DAs are associated with higher prevalence of VHD compared to non-ergot DAs and controls. Standard echocardiography seems sufficient to detect VHD in PD patients treated with DAs. (c) 2006 Movement Disorder Society.

PMID: 17094087 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
 
fourthgen said:
WOW. I've taken .5mg 2x per week for a good 1.5years now. How serious do you think this study is? How could this just be coming up now? Im going in asap for a heart checkup. I just got bloodwork back in yesterday and everything heart related, hemocrit,etc...came back perfect. But I def want a better test. What would you all recommend. Maybe an EKG?

Echocardiogram would be the best

Bodybuilders should get one of these every couple of years anyways.
 
No point to panik. The study says nothing about the millions of people are using cabergoline and they are not on the surgery theatre. At the moment we know for a fact that smoke kills not dostinex as yet. It is just a study. Many more to come...lol
 
Big Danny said:
No point to panik. The study says nothing about the millions of people are using cabergoline and they are not on the surgery theatre. At the moment we know for a fact that smoke kills not dostinex as yet. It is just a study. Many more to come...lol

True, but bringing these things to light and taking note is better for everyone in the sport. We owe it to ourselves to stay informed, educated athletes...
 
Seems that for the modest benefit, short-term as it is, cabergoline might not be the best idea, in spite of it's reported beneficial effect in the sexual arena.

Not worth having heart valve regurgitation, etc., as the only fix is heart valve surgery.

With that being said, the side effect seemed to occur only in ergot derived compounds(cabergoline & pergolide) , and was a relatively small percentage, at that. There are other DA's but I'm unsure of their benefits for bodybuilding as compared to cabergoline,etc.
 
Im really hoping this is a dose related thing. They seem to only mention the effects happeing to patients using this for parkinsons which are much much higher than bb'er related doses. Im hoping this is something like ephedrine where its obvious that normal dosing(25-75mg daily) with a healthy lifestyle and hydration could cause very minimal effects, but taking 10x that amount if not higher(the parkinsons patiens using cabergoline) will obviously cause harm. Either way I scheduled an echocardiogram
 
Max32 said:
True, but bringing these things to light and taking note is better for everyone in the sport. We owe it to ourselves to stay informed, educated athletes...
I agree.

What amazes me is that the potential side-effects of this class of drugs are known, this is not new info by any means (and there are other serious sides as well), YET most who use them to combat benign (I call gyno benign as it's not health threatening) haven't bothered to even do a cursory reading about the drugs they are taking. First step would be to read the Rx info and side-effect part, NOT a profile on some steroid site.

It's one thing to take a calculated risk but another to take drugs which they know nothing about.
 
Max32 said:
True, but bringing these things to light and taking note is better for everyone in the sport. We owe it to ourselves to stay informed, educated athletes...
Totaly agree with you Max, thay's why we are here, to keep inform every day, I am like many others on this site very open to anything new.
 
fourthgen said:
Well some good news is that the average parkinson's dose is between 14-42mg per week where most bb'ers take .5-1mg per week. Thats comforting, but the combo of gh and aas with it is still scaring the shit out of me. I better switch over to bromo to combat sides while on GH and aas that cause prolactin buildup. :( Im scared

Sorry if I'm jacking the thread, but I was extremely curious: How does Cabergoline assist with GH use? I know it helps with progesterone related AAS(s), but with GH?

thanks,

Knight1811
 
GH can cause prolactin levels to raise. Usually low doses like 3iu's and less per day wont' cause this, but higher doses can. When combining GH with aas and using an aas like tren or deca prolactin can really rise and caber helps combat this. I just wish they could figure out faster if bodybuilder releated doses are that harmful, so I can figure out if I need to switch to bromo.
 

Staff online

  • K1
    Blue-Eyed Devil
  • pesty4077
    Moderator/ Featured Member / Kilo Klub

Forum statistics

Total page views
576,073,177
Threads
138,443
Messages
2,856,972
Members
161,442
Latest member
JB10BLD
NapsGear
HGH Power Store email banner
yourdailyvitamins
Prowrist straps store banner
yourrawmaterials
3
raws
Savage Labs Store email
Syntherol Site Enhancing Oil Synthol
aqpharma
yms-GIF-210x131-Banne-B
hulabs
ezgif-com-resize-2-1
MA Research Chem store banner
MA Supps Store Banner
volartek
Keytech banner
thc
Godbullraw-bottom-banner
Injection Instructions for beginners
YMS-210x131-V02
Back
Top