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Calories/Macros on cycle vs Off

thehazzle

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Dec 8, 2009
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What do you guys do when you come off or cruise?

I find if I up calories to try and maintain as much as possible I just get fatter as I lose the nutrient partitioning effect of the gear. If I try and stay lean the muscle just falls off.

I know it's impossible to maintain the same look off vs on, was just curious what your approach was.
 

Feeshoils

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Dec 11, 2012
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I'm far from a guru, but I see no need to increase calories too much higher above the level which you were consuming whilst on, due to the fact of a lowered nutrient partitioning effect (as you said) as well as an overall lower demand for calories..

This is the way i look at it, purely my own opinion and it could be completely wrong and false but here goes...

The way I see it, when you're "on", your body can absorb, utilize, and process X amount at any given time.
I think of being "on" as your body utilizing calories to maintain, repair, rebuild itself, and partition nutrients in a favorable way, at a rate of say 100 liters per day

When you're off, that number decreases, down to say 60l/day, along with the ability/efficiency of the body to partition calories favorably etc etc.

Considering the fact that your body doesn't quite have the same efficiency of repairing muscle tissue, partitioning nutrients and possibly has a slower metabolic rate in comparison to what it once did whilst "ON", adding in excess calories, more than what's required would almost defiantly result in fat gain.

What would i do: Maintain your current Calorie intake, maybe increase protein intake just for peace of mind, Take pictures, measure gym performance and then go from there.
Its largely trial and error.

When im off I have to reduce my intake of carbs and fats slightly as I'm a fatty and get soft quickly with too many cals, but protein either increases slightly or stays the same.

Just my .02c and how i look at things.

I'm happy to be educated on the topic also, always new things to learn.

.
 

heavyhitter

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I eat a little higher protein and lower carb when coming off.
 

epoxy

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I'm far from a guru, but I see no need to increase calories too much higher above the level which you were consuming whilst on, due to the fact of a lowered nutrient partitioning effect (as you said) as well as an overall lower demand for calories..

This is the way i look at it, purely my own opinion and it could be completely wrong and false but here goes...

The way I see it, when you're "on", your body can absorb, utilize, and process X amount at any given time.
I think of being "on" as your body utilizing calories to maintain, repair, rebuild itself, and partition nutrients in a favorable way, at a rate of say 100 liters per day

When you're off, that number decreases, down to say 60l/day, along with the ability/efficiency of the body to partition calories favorably etc etc.

Considering the fact that your body doesn't quite have the same efficiency of repairing muscle tissue, partitioning nutrients and possibly has a slower metabolic rate in comparison to what it once did whilst "ON", adding in excess calories, more than what's required would almost defiantly result in fat gain.

What would i do: Maintain your current Calorie intake, maybe increase protein intake just for peace of mind, Take pictures, measure gym performance and then go from there.
Its largely trial and error.

When im off I have to reduce my intake of carbs and fats slightly as I'm a fatty and get soft quickly with too many cals, but protein either increases slightly or stays the same.

Just my .02c and how i look at things.

I'm happy to be educated on the topic also, always new things to learn.

.


I think if we wanted to get a little more scientific here especially when it comes to the protein portion, there are some steroids that increase protein synthesis and then there are some steroids (like tren) that decrease protein degredation. I would imagine an increase in protein synthesis would lead to the body being able to absorb more protein, while using something like trenbolone which we know was developed to put weight on cattle that were basically eating NOTHING, is meant to do well in a lower protein diet, "using a more with less" approach.

I would always advocate more protein when ON, but as far as other macros go, I've played with TONS of different types of high carb or high fat diets, and at the end of the day, if you are ON and consuming 500 or so calories above maintenance a day, you should be slowly and steadily gaining mass in one way or another. If at some point it completely stalls, then you add a little more -- hopefully in the way of healthy fats or extra protein. All these guys claiming you need 500g-800g of carbs, it's just insane. All we're doing over time is slowly creating insulin resistance with these massively high carbohydrate diets so that it takes more and more and more and more to reach the same desired effect. And that's just making guys FAT. All mass is not created equal. Taking steps to reset ones insulin sensitivity should be prioritized in this case, plenty of articles and threads on this board about that subject. You can do more with less if you know WTF you are doing.

As far as the OP's question on retaining: NO, you are never going to be able to maintain that same "ON" look when you are on HRT or completely come off. Just forget about that completely. You should be able to continue eating slightly above maintenance and keep most of the muscle that you have. Obviously the bigger you get, the more calories it's going to require. This is where it can get hazy with a lot of us on the board that aren't competitors. I've never been 250+ and I likely do not understand at that point what it requires to stay that size -- but I can IMAGINE that it basically require's NOT COMING OFF at all.

Your total daily calories should always be calculated by your activity level and your normal maintenance calories. The more active you are, the more calories above maintenance you will require to not actually "lose" weight.
 
Last edited:

tabascotk

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Registered
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Aug 24, 2006
Messages
276
I'm a strength athlete, when I come off I eat all the macros. Yes I get a bit thicker, but strength is my main goal so I don't really care what I look like as long as I don't get sloppy fat.
 

Feeshoils

Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 11, 2012
Messages
177
I think if we wanted to get a little more scientific here especially when it comes to the protein portion, there are some steroids that increase protein synthesis and then there are some steroids (like tren) that decrease protein degredation. I would imagine an increase in protein synthesis would lead to the body being able to absorb more protein, while using something like trenbolone which we know was developed to put weight on cattle that were basically eating NOTHING, is meant to do well in a lower protein diet, "using a more with less" approach.

I would always advocate more protein when ON, but as far as other macros go, I've played with TONS of different types of high carb or high fat diets, and at the end of the day, if you are ON and consuming 500 or so calories above maintenance a day, you should be slowly and steadily gaining mass in one way or another. If at some point it completely stalls, then you add a little more -- hopefully in the way of healthy fats or extra protein. All these guys claiming you need 500g-800g of carbs, it's just insane. All we're doing over time is slowly creating insulin resistance with these massively high carbohydrate diets so that it takes more and more and more and more to reach the same desired effect. And that's just making guys FAT. All mass is not created equal. Taking steps to reset ones insulin sensitivity should be prioritized in this case, plenty of articles and threads on this board about that subject. You can do more with less if you know WTF you are doing.

As far as the OP's question on retaining: NO, you are never going to be able to maintain that same "ON" look when you are on HRT or completely come off. Just forget about that completely. You should be able to continue eating slightly above maintenance and keep most of the muscle that you have. Obviously the bigger you get, the more calories it's going to require. This is where it can get hazy with a lot of us on the board that aren't competitors. I've never been 250+ and I likely do not understand at that point what it requires to stay that size -- but I can IMAGINE that it basically require's NOT COMING OFF at all.

Your total daily calories should always be calculated by your activity level and your normal maintenance calories. The more active you are, the more calories above maintenance you will require to not actually "lose" weight.

Very informative, Thanks for the info!
 

Woods70

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Dec 15, 2016
Messages
61
I add 2 meals bulk minus 3 meals cut minus 2 meals on cruz
 

HGHKITS.COM

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Registered
Joined
Feb 28, 2017
Messages
91
Very helpful points.

:headbang:
I think if we wanted to get a little more scientific here especially when it comes to the protein portion, there are some steroids that increase protein synthesis and then there are some steroids (like tren) that decrease protein degredation. I would imagine an increase in protein synthesis would lead to the body being able to absorb more protein, while using something like trenbolone which we know was developed to put weight on cattle that were basically eating NOTHING, is meant to do well in a lower protein diet, "using a more with less" approach.

I would always advocate more protein when ON, but as far as other macros go, I've played with TONS of different types of high carb or high fat diets, and at the end of the day, if you are ON and consuming 500 or so calories above maintenance a day, you should be slowly and steadily gaining mass in one way or another. If at some point it completely stalls, then you add a little more -- hopefully in the way of healthy fats or extra protein. All these guys claiming you need 500g-800g of carbs, it's just insane. All we're doing over time is slowly creating insulin resistance with these massively high carbohydrate diets so that it takes more and more and more and more to reach the same desired effect. And that's just making guys FAT. All mass is not created equal. Taking steps to reset ones insulin sensitivity should be prioritized in this case, plenty of articles and threads on this board about that subject. You can do more with less if you know WTF you are doing.

As far as the OP's question on retaining: NO, you are never going to be able to maintain that same "ON" look when you are on HRT or completely come off. Just forget about that completely. You should be able to continue eating slightly above maintenance and keep most of the muscle that you have. Obviously the bigger you get, the more calories it's going to require. This is where it can get hazy with a lot of us on the board that aren't competitors. I've never been 250+ and I likely do not understand at that point what it requires to stay that size -- but I can IMAGINE that it basically require's NOT COMING OFF at all.

Your total daily calories should always be calculated by your activity level and your normal maintenance calories. The more active you are, the more calories above maintenance you will require to not actually "lose" weight.
 

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