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carb loading for show question

now that I have worked with Chris Aceto and read what Magnum and Phil both wrote in this thread I have to say that the whole carb loading thing is funny.

I wrote an email to Chris about a week out from Jr Nationals and asked him what I needed to bring as far as food. His response was "You look pretty good with what you are eating now. Lets bring that." In Chicago we changed almost nothing from what I had been doing the last few weeks other than lowering my water intake. On Friday I think I had one more carb meal than I had been having and felt pretty good with the finished product. Could I have been more full? Maybe. More dry? I guess. But then again we could have missed and ended up flat do to drastic dehydration or bloated from eating a lot more than I was accustom to.

Here's my favorite backstage shot without any drastic last minute changes. The diet stayed the same now all I need to do is have a better physique to bring in.:D
 

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now that I have worked with Chris Aceto and read what Magnum and Phil both wrote in this thread I have to say that the whole carb loading thing is funny.

I wrote an email to Chris about a week out from Jr Nationals and asked him what I needed to bring as far as food. His response was "You look pretty good with what you are eating now. Lets bring that." In Chicago we changed almost nothing from what I had been doing the last few weeks other than lowering my water intake. On Friday I think I had one more carb meal than I had been having and felt pretty good with the finished product. Could I have been more full? Maybe. More dry? I guess. But then again we could have missed and ended up flat do to drastic dehydration or bloated from eating a lot more than I was accustom to.

Here's my favorite backstage shot without any drastic last minute changes. The diet stayed the same now all I need to do is have a better physique to bring in.:D

You look awesome and I think you have a very bright future ahead of you. I dont know where the carb loading idea comes from, but it seems that many bbers still follow that principle, including my contest prep guy. I think Ill just keep using oatmeal as my main carb source as it is what got me to where I am. I will post pics of my depleted and carbed up states later this week. Maybe you can tell me what you think when I post them.
 
Can your trainer 100% guarantee that carbing you up will make you look better? If not I suggest you not do it. If you are ripped and look good just coast into a show. Even when people do carb up and look good it's rarely repeatable just ask Dennis Wolf or King Kamali. I've seen this so many times over the last 20 plus years. 5 months or more of contest prep down the tubes because of a last minute trick.

So true !!, think of how many times Dennis James has posted pics 2-3 weeks out and looks INSANE and then shows up smooth as can be. So many people mess things up the last two or three days just because they wanna push the envelope on conditioning and it ends up backfiring on them.
 
I have some time (which doesn't happen much) and so I think this is a good opportunity for me to get in here with my opinions.

First, I agree with some points in this post and disagree with some others. Yes, if you are tight and aren't flat then there are certainly times that you don't need to load before a show. Dusty is a good example because from the pics I saw coming up to the show and knowing how Chris prefers to run higher carbs than most guys, it is a safe assumption that Dusty would be fuller coming into the last leg of his prep. Suffice to say I wasn't surprised when I saw his pics the last week before the show and he was full and hard vs needing to fill out with a load. For the guys that I prep that can handle larger amounts of carbs (relatively speaking), I have taken several of them and not loaded them, either. You don't load someone that isn't flat.

On the other hand, not everyone can prep with higher carbs, either. Most guys tend to run flat either between high carb days (if they are carb cycling) or between Skiploads if they are working with me, etc.. It happens and it happens more times than it doesn't happen. I can say that because I have been doing this a long time, as well, and I am a competitor known for my conditioning, too.

I think that MOST guys not loading coming into the last week whether it be at a week out, 5 days out, a shitload at the last minute, etc., are almost certainly making a mistake. Most guys are not coming into the last week full and ready - they are depleted, over-worked and beat to shit as they try to get as lean as possible. Sure, it might not be a the best way to prep but most guys fall into this category.

All of that being said, if you want your load to be predictable - and they ABSOLUTELY can be and SHOULD be predictable - you Skipload during your prep which is usually once a week, every single week. You will see patterns and you will see the timing of how long it takes your body to go flat again, move water, hold water, hold your fullness, etc.. When you do that 15 to 20 times over the course of a prep, please, can someone tell me where the guesswork comes from? It isn't unpredictable unless you don't pay attention and take simple notes to keep track of the details. This isn't rocket science and if you are going to be full you have to eat more than 500 or so grams of carbs for shit sake. It isn't a crap shoot and isn't guesswork unless you simply don't know what you are doing. With Skiploading you also get the benefit of it keeping your metabolism amped and keeping you getting leaner without sitting there eating a baked potato or baby reds for one meal and 2 medium sweet potatoes for the next meal and then thinking this is going to not only fill you out but have much of any impact on your metabolism for the following week.

You say money is an issue and I am expensive to work with. I am almost tempted to take you on as a client for nothing just to make one more example (as if I need to make yet one more example) of how to get fucking peeled eat fruity pebbles, pancakes and low fat pizza once a week until your gut feels like it is going to split. After 2 meals you would be begging not to eat anymore. lol

You do have a trainer but you said and made clear that you don't trust his approach. That is a pretty important sign right there because you HAVE to be on board 100% or you shouldn't be working with him/her. If you aren't cool with his approach and don't trust it, read this and if you trust this then you email me and we will see if we can make this work. My ego gets stroked for showing people how good I am and you get into your best condition eating carbs that go down just a bit easier than baked potatoes.

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/articles-forum/38448-skiploading.html

There are a lot of changes that have been made to my protocol since this was posted but this will still give you a solid understanding of the principles involved and if we do work together then I will be giving you all of the updated information, as well, obviously. If you are interested in contacting me after reviewing that article, email me at: [email protected]. If not, I understand and I wish you well. Just be sure to enjoy those baked potatoes. ;)

Skip
 
So true !!, think of how many times Dennis James has posted pics 2-3 weeks out and looks INSANE and then shows up smooth as can be. So many people mess things up the last two or three days just because they wanna push the envelope on conditioning and it ends up backfiring on them.

Completely agree BUT ... don't mistake Dennis' mistakes the last couple weeks before a show for doing a predictable load that you have essentially done 15-20 times, each week, during a prep. No one on this board works with Dennis James so no one on this board is sure of the mistakes Dennis makes in the weeks leading to the show. Hell, it could be as simple as doing some other "traditionally" stupid things before a show like cutting or restricting sodium, use of some specific diuretics for 3 to 6 days before a show, cutting water, etc.. I am sure that we have all seen these less than logical approaches fail miserably, right guys??

Skip
 
Completely agree BUT ... don't mistake Dennis' mistakes the last couple weeks before a show for doing a predictable load that you have essentially done 15-20 times, each week, during a prep. No one on this board works with Dennis James so no one on this board is sure of the mistakes Dennis makes in the weeks leading to the show. Hell, it could be as simple as doing some other "traditionally" stupid things before a show like cutting or restricting sodium, use of some specific diuretics for 3 to 6 days before a show, cutting water, etc.. I am sure that we have all seen these less than logical approaches fail miserably, right guys??

Skip

Exactly, it's not just the carb loading...everything you listed plus more. It just amazes me that people do everything right for months on end and then just start changing everything two or three days before a show. When you start pulling water, messing with sodium and adding drugs, stopping certain drugs and eating more food than usual what do you think is goona happen ?? lol Anyway I know you know diet prep very very well skip and there are a few others that are very knowledgable as well, but the majority of so called "gurus" are few and far between !!
 
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Well

now that I have worked with Chris Aceto and read what Magnum and Phil both wrote in this thread I have to say that the whole carb loading thing is funny.

I wrote an email to Chris about a week out from Jr Nationals and asked him what I needed to bring as far as food. His response was "You look pretty good with what you are eating now. Lets bring that." In Chicago we changed almost nothing from what I had been doing the last few weeks other than lowering my water intake. On Friday I think I had one more carb meal than I had been having and felt pretty good with the finished product. Could I have been more full? Maybe. More dry? I guess. But then again we could have missed and ended up flat do to drastic dehydration or bloated from eating a lot more than I was accustom to.

Here's my favorite backstage shot without any drastic last minute changes. The diet stayed the same now all I need to do is have a better physique to bring in.:D

That has to be the best back stage photo of all time.
 
You know what?
People know me and I am a KISS advocate. anabolics, diet, and supplements and training all are very boring and hard for me to write about as it is
My diets were always 80's based, moderate protein, medium carbs low fat.
For the first few years I trained I ate like a spartan. Never any junk, no fast foods no sugars-NOTHING, NADA, but tuna rice baked pots egg whites chicken plain pasta and whole grain breads and egg yolks were considered bad in my mind. I went from a solid 200 to around a very 240 in about 5 years. When I started on mild cycles of anabolics I could never break 255. I wasn't mega dosing but then again I see what I can do now with 200 mgs of test a week and realize the missing link was food and undertraining. (separate thread one day)

I am getting off topic here but my point is -if it's THAT simple to present a ripped ready hard contest physique on stage as mentioned above in some of the posts why isn't everyone doing it-and why are these prep guys get paid so much to KISS it?

WELL even if you keep everything the same -guys that do this are still controlling water and electrolytes naturally and still come in off.

Skip makes some very good points in his post above, and it goes along with what dusty and phil are alluding to in the same way-knowing how your body reacts to certain foods and amounts. Massive G might be on rice and chicken up and until the show and then change to chicken and potato and start cutting water a bit and electrolytes and BOOM....smooth ass city.

I do agree those that make those drastic changes trying to carb load with things they have no control of how their body will react to it, as well as play with water, diuretics and slin etc are really looking to come in pfffffffffffffft. You can't carb load or Skipload the last week and then come in off and say-"This skiploading sucked it blew my condition!" NO. YOU blew your condition by being a dumbass and try last minute tactics and foods in which YOU had no idea what you'd look like at the end.

Where we most see this is on the pro level where the field is basically level and can come to conditioning-so so many of these guys may be on the verge of breaking into the top 3 or 5 or winning a smaller grand prix but they seem hell bent on doing some last minute changes that cost them all their hard work.

Being in Chad's inner circle back in 2003-2006 I got to see a lot of precomp pics of Ronnie-the most amazing ones were when he arrived and from the hotel room.
I have never ever seen a human that big or chiseled and striated before at 285. NEVER. Ever body part was dry and striated quadruple split biceps -his whole body looked like a grey's anatomy chart.
After the carb up and all the secret little compounds-Ronnie would look very soft at the night show, still enough to beat Jay but he could have really destroyed what we know as the best EVER condition displayed on stage.

If I were to hit a show again, I'd probably hire Skip, not because I don't know how to get lean and ripped and still be huge, but sometimes you need to put your trust in someone else and I have read tons of his posts and interviews and I would be very inclined to hire him to make me "Anatomy-G". I think I am pretty sharp and know everything about ME, but feel that I'd let someone take over the reigns. And let's pull no punches here-Skip knows his shit-bigtime.

Look at what Dusty did. He's one sharp cat also, he builds and diets people as well. He knows his shit. but he also has put his future into the sport with 2 of the top guys out there-Dante and Chris. That way there is no second guessing. Prep guys are expensive, make no mistake about it, but he got the results people dream about or only see in the genetic elite-20 solid plus pounds of lean competition weight, as well as being one of the hardest leanest guys up there and winning the Superheavy of a huge national show being his third contest at 29. I thought he should have won, but that has been beat to death so no need to discuss it.

Justin Harris who is another guy I hold in the highest regard and one of the smartest people I know admitted the last time he competed he sould have let some one else do his prep for the USA, he tried a few different things by his own admission and missed his peak.

So what's the lesson or message in this thread?

It's not which method is most effective, it's what method works for you and your prep guy should be with you the entire way of the journey and have you prepped for those final days WEEKS in advance -he and you knowing what that morsel of food is going to do to your condition. You shouldn't be there thinking what this 50 grams of potato is going to do to you or over spill you and if it does your guys comes in with the pills and water restriction to dry you out.

Post over-Skip get the fat free twinkies ready I am coming over.:D
 
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"Being in Chad's inner circle back in 2003-2006 I got to see a lot of precomp pics of Ronnie-the most amazing ones were when he arrived and from the hotel room.
I have never ever seen a human that big or chiseled and striated before at 285. NEVER. Ever body part was dry and striated quadruple split biceps -his whole body looked like a grey's anatomy chart.
After the carb up and all the secret little compounds-Ronnie would look very soft at the night show, still enough to beat Jay but he could have really destroyed what we know as the best EVER condition displayed on stage.
"

You ain't lying !! I use to be pretty close with chad and kim and I remember back when kim was first pregnant and chad was just getting the board up (MM) and we use to do conference calls to discuss how he wanted the board run, anyway when the call was over he sent me some shots of ronnie that were RETARTED looking !!! I remember several years ago dave bourlet and I were talking about those photos.
 
Hey skip! I just finished reading the article and it does make a lot of sense to me. I like your choice of carbs for the loading :) (maple syrup w/french toast and cereals). I would definitely like to give this process a try. My only worry is that my contest prep guy who is a pro bb, bulit my cycle and posing routine, will be there all week to help me make adjustments and I wont be able to hide the fact that I loaded on carbs on monday and tuesday. I would feel dishonest with him who has been there for me for three years. That being said, I feel very grateful for your offer and I am keeping your email address if I qualify for the canadian nationals. My trainer/friend will understand that I want to try something new. It will also allow me to skipload a few times before trying it on contest day. If I did it this week, we would miss valuable information on how my body reacts to the process because my contest is in 5 days!

You look very open minded and intelligent, I will remember you for my next show, I guarantee it. The industry needs more people like you who take a real interest in the sport and who arent only interested in making a quick buck. Im just amazed at how someone who worked with so many athletes is willing to go ahead and give free advice like that. You dont see that often in the bodybuilding world of so-called gurus, it shows what kind of person you are. Take care and talk to you soon.
 
I will let you make those statements below because they sound better coming from you than they do me. :)

Skip
Exactly, it's not just the carb loading...everything you listed plus more. It just amazes me that people do everything right for months on end and then just start changing everything two or three days before a show. When you start pulling water, messing with sodium and adding drugs, stopping certain drugs and eating more food than usual what do you think is goona happen ?? lol Anyway I know you know diet prep very very well skip and there are a few others that are very knowledgable as well, but the majority of so called "gurus" are few and far between !!
 
Understood and I appreciate the very kind words. If you see Scot Abel at the show, tell him Skip says "fuck off". :)

Yeah, he and I won't be doing lunch anytime soon. *shrug*

Skip
Hey skip! I just finished reading the article and it does make a lot of sense to me. I like your choice of carbs for the loading :) (maple syrup w/french toast and cereals). I would definitely like to give this process a try. My only worry is that my contest prep guy who is a pro bb, bulit my cycle and posing routine, will be there all week to help me make adjustments and I wont be able to hide the fact that I loaded on carbs on monday and tuesday. I would feel dishonest with him who has been there for me for three years. That being said, I feel very grateful for your offer and I am keeping your email address if I qualify for the canadian nationals. My trainer/friend will understand that I want to try something new. It will also allow me to skipload a few times before trying it on contest day. If I did it this week, we would miss valuable information on how my body reacts to the process because my contest is in 5 days!

You look very open minded and intelligent, I will remember you for my next show, I guarantee it. The industry needs more people like you who take a real interest in the sport and who arent only interested in making a quick buck. Im just amazed at how someone who worked with so many athletes is willing to go ahead and give free advice like that. You dont see that often in the bodybuilding world of so-called gurus, it shows what kind of person you are. Take care and talk to you soon.
 
A note for some of you on here that are talking about restricting water and or sodium intake, this is the worst possible thing that you can do and it is a losing battle. Your muscles are comprised mainly of water, around 70%! this should be the first red flag that tells you to not restrict water and to start messing with aldactone, restricting water, altering your sodium levels a few days before a show. Looking full on stage has very little to do with glycogen stores in the muscle, it's water that will make you look full and hard! Your body couldn't care less about how "it" looks, it's main concern is keeping your sodium and potassium in balance. The body will store about 350 grams of carbs more or less in the muscle. There is nothing wrong at all with gradually increasing your carbs before a show, but there is no way you are going to "trick" your body into absorbing tons of extra carbs when it is physiologically impossible. I don't care if you had a team of Dr's and all the bloodwork available to you. I rarely see anyone gets a lean as they can be because they tend to stop early thinking that once they do this special trick it will somehow tranform them the last few hours before the prejuding. Do your homework before your show and stop worrying about all this other so called last minute miracle procedures.
 
Some solid points in there, Magnum. However, if you feed someone 350g of carbs and think they will be full, I beg to differ. The mistakes that are made by people that I posted about and you agreed with are pretty common but so is not taking in enough carbs, too.

It is rare that someone ever says "I was so damned full but could have been tighter". Usually, like 90% of the time, you will hear "I was flat". You are correct that it isn't all carbs when you are flat BUT ..... you can have your water right and be dry but flat from lack of carbs, too.

Skip
 

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