cardio and really weak shoulders question

[jrs]

how catabolic can cardio be? i'm 206 at 5'9, probably 16-18% bodyfat, trying to get to around 10-12. i'm carb cycling for my diet, about 500 or so calories below maintenence. what i've been doing after training is the stairmaster for 20 minutes. and a 20 minute session on most of my off days. it gets my heart rate up good and my legs get real pumped and worked hard. can this be catabolic? should i just do walking for my heart and lower my calories like 200 lower?

now for my shoulders question. i had both operated on a few months ago for osteolysis/degenerative AC joints. they're recovered now. but they're really narrow and my delts are REAL droopy. it's to the point that it looks bad because my clavicles are also narrow anyway. they've actually always looked like this even before the surgeries. i've been doing a doggcrapp type routine with just straight sets now that i'm dieting and just a pressing movement seems to be helping but they're still nowhere near big enough. but i have a lot of bodyparts like that, like biceps and chest. should i just keep doing what i'm doing and wait for them to even out later as i get bigger?

thanks

 

[TooPowerful4u]

how catabolic can cardio be? i'm 206 at 5'9, probably 16-18% bodyfat, trying to get to around 10-12. i'm carb cycling for my diet, about 500 or so calories below maintenence. what i've been doing after training is the stairmaster for 20 minutes. and a 20 minute session on most of my off days. it gets my heart rate up good and my legs get real pumped and worked hard. can this be catabolic? should i just do walking for my heart and lower my calories like 200 lower?

now for my shoulders question. i had both operated on a few months ago for osteolysis/degenerative AC joints. they're recovered now. but they're really narrow and my delts are REAL droopy. it's to the point that it looks bad because my clavicles are also narrow anyway. they've actually always looked like this even before the surgeries. i've been doing a doggcrapp type routine with just straight sets now that i'm dieting and just a pressing movement seems to be helping but they're still nowhere near big enough. but i have a lot of bodyparts like that, like biceps and chest. should i just keep doing what i'm doing and wait for them to even out later as i get bigger?

thanks

well coulda used a lil more info but....

#1 do shoulders on their own day (do not make it the day after chest) and take the next day off. Hittin them fresh and allowing maximal recovery is key if this is your top priority.

2. Start with side laterals. Your caps are whats gonna take away that droopy look, well not take it away, but make it look best it can. I personally LOVE slightly loose form side DB laterals. Not so heavy and loose that you get hurt, but loose enough where you get a slight swing to get them to the top, then FIGHT with all your might to hold them there (you shouldnt be able to but resist with all your might on the negative). Soon as you hit your sides, up again. Then after a few heavy sets, do one big pump high rep set, rest 3min, then go on to your heavy press. After the press hit up 2 more isolation strict form movements for rears and mids, and finnish up with a wide grip upright row if you got it in you.

 

[Starkraven]

fuck yeah that delt day sounds good. i need side delts big time. i have that droopy look. i was doing side laterals after chest but now im gonna do delts alone on their own day and start with side laterals. i never did that before. i also love slightly loose form db side laterals. like a 45 degree angle sort of. then onto heavy presses and 2 more isolation movements for rears and MIDS? what other exercise besides side laterals and upright rows and heavy presses hit the medial head?

 

[DOGMA]

STANDING MILITARY PRESS. With the OLY bar.

 

[TooPowerful4u]

what other exercise besides side laterals and upright rows and heavy presses hit the medial head?

wide grip upright row to your mid chest. Most gyms have the seated machine you squeeze into and raise it with your elbows. Lay face down on an incline bench at a high incline and hit mids and rears at the same time.

this one is one of my favs but you gotta be VERY careful and go light. Smith machine behind the neck press for mid delts. Set the seat so when you tuck your chin to your chest the bar hits you mid of your head on way down. Now go light, keep ur elbows BEHIND ur hands. Do this exercise after you have a good mid delt pump from laterals, ul love it.

 

[Got Juice]

that was some good input there TP4U, i might have to try a few of those out myself.

 

[TooPowerful4u]

Well my shoulders do happen to be my best bodypart haha. sorry bout the size of the pic, its all i got, and yea yea i know i need LOTS of improvement everywhere else you guys dont gotta tell me

 

[saint808]

i like to sit backwards on the military press machine. much more controlled and it simulates behind the head presses but far less chance of injury. Only prob you will have is running out weight.

 

[Starkraven]

wide grip upright row to your mid chest. Most gyms have the seated machine you squeeze into and raise it with your elbows. Lay face down on an incline bench at a high incline and hit mids and rears at the same time.

this one is one of my favs but you gotta be VERY careful and go light. Smith machine behind the neck press for mid delts. Set the seat so when you tuck your chin to your chest the bar hits you mid of your head on way down. Now go light, keep ur elbows BEHIND ur hands. Do this exercise after you have a good mid delt pump from laterals, ul love it.

so is this an addition to the already 3 mentioned exercises? i mean im on test/dbol right now just started so im sure i can handle it. i think my problem is severely undertraining my delts and undereating but now thats going to change. thanks alot for the tips, especially starting off with side laterals.

 

[TooPowerful4u]

Delts can take a beating. Think about it for years youv been hitting them directly with their own workout, with back you hit rears a LOT and partially the mids, chest you hit front a LOT and partially mids. They can take the abuse and a big workout as long as you arrange your split correctly. They arent my priority but if theyr urs, do something like chest day 1, back day 2, off or arms or legs day 3 ( to give the delts a break from the partial work they got back n chest day, then hit them fresh on the 4th day, and do arms or legs or off on the 5th day. Now its not gonna be exaclty like that, but u get the idea

 

[Starkraven]

Delts can take a beating. Think about it for years youv been hitting them directly with their own workout, with back you hit rears a LOT and partially the mids, chest you hit front a LOT and partially mids. They can take the abuse and a big workout as long as you arrange your split correctly. They arent my priority but if theyr urs, do something like chest day 1, back day 2, off or arms or legs day 3 ( to give the delts a break from the partial work they got back n chest day, then hit them fresh on the 4th day, and do arms or legs or off on the 5th day. Now its not gonna be exaclty like that, but u get the idea

yeah im now doing:

mon: back/bis
wed: chest/tris
fri: legs
sat: delts

this gives me 3-4 days between chest and delts working the part once a week. i used to do the one bodypart a day and grew well but im thinking i might grow better with the added rest days? i used to do chest,arms,legs,shoulders,back,rest,rest. i dont like that cuz u hit arms after chest. then shoulders is like 2 days after tris. and back after shoulders, it cuts into recovery i think. i could be wrong though. but this time im going to train with more volume than i have been doing. sort of like the volume i did with the one bodypart a day routine. 3 exercises for each part.

 

[TooPowerful4u]

Good split for delts, i like it.

Another one i forgot that i was recently shown from someone i train with once in a while is front dumbell raises with a swing. Grab a heavy set, something you cant raise strict, go one arm at a time, give a lil swing, swing the dumbell out in front of you crossing your body and resist the decent. Killer.

 

[Starkraven]

ill give that a shot too. too many people do such strict shit, it doesnt work well. lats said it best, find a happy medium, between strict and way too heavy. somewhere along the lines of heavy and a little swinging.

do you think my split is good enough? i grew well from the one bodypart a day routine, but that hits too many parts all the time. i wanna be sure im always recovering. all it is is putting bis on back day and tris on chest day. everything else is the same. and this enables me to go every other day. also back day is where i do hams as well since squats and leg presses and leg extensions are enough and tire me the fuck out.

 

[vitor]

I

I too consider shoulders one of my best bodyparts and my workout is

Dumbell presses
60X12
80X12
110X12
90X as many as I can

Side Laterals sitting down on a seated shoulder press bench,
You cant really cheat hear, I used to stand and throw shit up, but sitting
has made a diffrience
3-4 sets
Start with 15lb dumbells, work out to 30-40lbs

Upright row wide grip 3-4 sets

Rear Delts on a Flye machine 2-3 sets
Throw some Heavy shurgs in, I do shrugs 2-3 days a week anyways

I love volume works for me,