Ciba Dianabol

[vadim_b1]

Bud, did you miss the part when I mentioned the European Union?

Right now they have the same standards for drugs produced in member countries, which means that a drug produced in Poland will be subject to the SAME standards as a drug produced in Germany.

The synthesis of methandienone isnt a complicated process, there arent any special patents on how to do it "better", there is a standard to adhere to, regarding purity and concentration.
The standards in the European Union are not any lower than such standards in the USA, its ludicrous to even assume this.
Following this logic, people should buy all their drugs from the USA right? Because an antibiotic bought in Poland will be weaker than the same antibiotic bought in the USA?

Please people think logically.

There will not be any "shady" pharmaceutical companies who want to operate in the legal PHARMACEUTICAL market, because they will be raided and shut down very quickly if they attempt to release inferior products, at least in developed countries.

@killerstack, im not aware of any isomerism being displayed by hormones. The question of potency is usually dependent on purity of both raw material and end product, also it is POSSIBLE, although not likely, that the tablet design itself could play a role in absorption of a drug. If it did though, the instruction leaflet would have to be written to include facts on how to consume the tablet to ensure proper absorption.

OF COURSE ALL OF THE ABOVE IS APPLICABLE ONLY TO LEGALLY PRODUCED PHARMACEUTICALS WHICH ARE SUBJECT TO CONTROL.

 

[BitsOBrawn]

Not this shit again...

Of course Ciba dbol could turn you into Arnold at 10 mg/day in only 4 weeks and parabolan would make you burn 200 lbs of fat and gain 100 lbs of muscle and win the mr. O without even trying...

Those myths are so funny to read sometimes...

dbol is dbol and tren is tren doesnt matter who produces it if they are correctly dosed, IT WILL BE THE SAME SHIT.

Dude that's not true at all. dbol IS NOT dbol. There are hundreds of powder suppliers in China these days. We are talking about fucking China..........a country that has sold bad Heparin powder to MAJOR U.S. pharmaceutical companies. A country that continues to put lead in their shit and sell it to the U.S. Do you think in the 1950's Ciba was buying their raw powder from fucking China? Fuck no! Most pharmaceutical powders came from Europe or the U.S. Raw powders can VARY dramatically in quality combine that with shitty quality control in China the steroids nowadays don't even COMPARE to what was available 20 years ago. For those that have been lucky enough to use legit U.S. pharmaceutical anadrol, BTG oxandrin, Deca Durabolin, and things like Delatestryl will tell you...........there is NO COMPARISON. You can use 200mgs a week of Wyeth Deca Durabolin and grow like a fucking weed. Or the old Steris Test Cyp..........or Upjohn when it used to make it. Your also incorrect in thinking that because two compounds are correctly dosed they are in fact equal. One compound could have predinosone along with the actual content and one couldn't....the results would be dramatically DIFFERENT. You are a regular member over at BodyofScience..........you've seen the lab reports no?

 

[BitsOBrawn]

vadim, if your opinion of me is that i am ignorant - so be it. fortunately opinions do not alter reality. the reality is that different countries have different laws - DUH. therefore they have different regulations regarding the manufcture of pharmaceuticals. this is not specualtion its plain common sense. also companies themselves - REGARDLESS of their location have differing policies. let me tell u there are a BUTTLOAD of shady american companies for all sorts of items. so with all these factors who knows what dosage is actually in a '5mg d-bol' -could be 2mg, could be 8mg. also there is no guarantee that the chemical is completely processed - no matter where its from. all of these factors must be considered in any logical discussion of this topic. my point was that i would assume that a pharmaceutical manufactered in a country like england , or spain, or germany would LIKELY be higher quality than say mexico - and by quality i mean dosage and processing

You are correct in both your posts. Vadim is the one who is acting ignorant. Dianabol was invented by John Steigler an American. America was the industrial powerhouse back in the day i.e. 50's. The U.S. pharmaceutical industry pretty much manufactured their own products on American soil with the utmost quality control. Anyone to say that dbol is dbol is crazy. It's a well known fact that many generic drugs do not work as well or are as effective and their brandname counterpart. There are many factors that can affect the process. Raw powders can have a host of contaminants in them that affect the end product. Heating a chemical reaction longer than it's supposed to be, etc. Take a company that produces something like say a baked good such as a twinkie..........there are trade secrets as to how the details of how it's made. Other companies can reproduce and market something similar.....but nothing tastes as good as a Hostess twinkie. Same thing with drugs. Why do you think billions of dollars are spent on a patent. Ciba might have known one little aspect of manufacturing methandrostenolone vs. some slant eyed working in a piss poor rat infested warehouse. Bottomline is MOST of the world gets their raw products to make a lot of shit from China nowadays. This WAS NOT the cas 50 years ago.

 

[kappainf]

Can't some of these pills be sent to a lab for analysis? Would the results definitively answer some of these questions?

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Generic manufacturers have to prove conclusively that their drugs have the same bioavailability, duration of action, and all sorts of criteria before being allowed to market a generic counterpart of a name brand drug. In all but the RAREST cases, generics are pretty comparable to the name brand. I do believe that to be true.

However, here's what most people don't hear. When you hear that a generic is "the exact same" as it's name brand counterpart, that means it's dosage, rate of absorption, and all the other criteria have to be within 20% of the original. That's pretty far from "the exact same". For instance, even though it's no longer sold, let's take this argument here: Dianabol. Okay, in our scenerio, let's say that you wanted the generic methandrostenelone instead of the name brand. The brand name Dianabol per tab in that particular lot currently has approximately 24mg of methandrostenelone on a label claim of a 20mg tab. Now, if you decide to get the generic "equivalent", it could actually contain only 16mg and have much poorer absorption than the original and still be marketed as equivalent. So technically, you could be looking at 24mg Dianabol tabs with a given absorption, as compared to a 16mg generic tab with poorer absorption yet they are still considered "comparable".

I'm not saying all generics are that off or even it that's the case here, but the fact is that there IS a difference. And that difference can be + or - 20%.

A 20% swing in both directions can be 40% total. That's a pretty big difference. But with many medications, even a 10-15% difference is very noticeable.

Add to the problem that most big brand name companies actually own generic producing labs. I don't want to get into the politics of drug companies and the way they maximize their profits, but let's just say that they want you to buy the drug (generic or name brand) from them but name brand is preferred. *wink*

 

[KillerStack]

@killerstack, im not aware of any isomerism being displayed by hormones.

Well I remembered that Patrick Arnold has mentioned different isomers of OTC hormones like Epistane/Havoc and DMT. Posts like this on bb.com:

But whether havoc is a mixture of the correct alpha,alpha isomer and the relatively inactive beta,beta isomer we still won't know for sure. there ARE two 288 peaks after all and its not entirely clear why

But this may be totally irrelevant to something like dbol, I have no idea. Just something I thought of reading this thread.

 

[big E]

Bits, love those old usa products you rifled off. No doubt that there are good versions of the mentioned sup' but make no mistake that the items that came from usa manufacture in the 60's througth the ninties and even today are always gtg, and the best that can be used! Oxandrin var(2.5mg) no less taken at similar dosages to var today is not even compareable and I would love to see anyone with the right history to even dispute that! Let alone the upjohn or steris test! The problem is that a majority of people don't have the real experience to draw against and only have items that are around today or for the last few years and guys you have no idea what you missed!

 

[blackhole]

sorry guys but i cant stop laughing at using china as an example - they can even make F**king pet food right, anyone remember recently when the pet foods in america that were made from some chinese raw components were causing kidney failure in pets? my poor old 18 year old cat almost died!!! thats a good point if they cant make some pet food how do u expect some places to make some INJECTABLE stuff for humans?

 

[vadim_b1]

Dude that's not true at all. dbol IS NOT dbol. There are hundreds of powder suppliers in China these days. We are talking about fucking China..........a country that has sold bad Heparin powder to MAJOR U.S. pharmaceutical companies. A country that continues to put lead in their shit and sell it to the U.S. Do you think in the 1950's Ciba was buying their raw powder from fucking China? Fuck no! Most pharmaceutical powders came from Europe or the U.S. Raw powders can VARY dramatically in quality combine that with shitty quality control in China the steroids nowadays don't even COMPARE to what was available 20 years ago. For those that have been lucky enough to use legit U.S. pharmaceutical anadrol, BTG oxandrin, Deca Durabolin, and things like Delatestryl will tell you...........there is NO COMPARISON. You can use 200mgs a week of Wyeth Deca Durabolin and grow like a fucking weed. Or the old Steris Test Cyp..........or Upjohn when it used to make it. Your also incorrect in thinking that because two compounds are correctly dosed they are in fact equal. One compound could have predinosone along with the actual content and one couldn't....the results would be dramatically DIFFERENT. You are a regular member over at BodyofScience..........you've seen the lab reports no?

And European pharm companies import their raws from China...
It also seems that you totally lack reading comprehension
A few posts above i mention quality control, yea lets totally ignore this, and push the mighty US of A brands because face it they are the only ones who know how to make it right, is that correct my friend?

I cant really argue with people who dont know a damn thing about pharmaceutical industry, yet pretend like they know everything

Have a nice day kids, and keep wetting your pants about Ciba or whatever other stuff there was
Ill just keep taking my pharm grade stuff and grow.

 

[vadim_b1]

You tell me how im supposed to counter such stupidity then
and a total disregard for EVERYTHING that i have posted so far
honestly, sometimes i think that im just wasting my time

 

[Tyrone]

You tell me how im supposed to counter such stupidity then
and a total disregard for EVERYTHING that i have posted so far
honestly, sometimes i think that im just wasting my time

You could but it's not worth the effort...

 

[Tyrone]

This is great posting OTH!

Generic manufacturers have to prove conclusively that their drugs have the same bioavailability, duration of action, and all sorts of criteria before being allowed to market a generic counterpart of a name brand drug. In all but the RAREST cases, generics are pretty comparable to the name brand. I do believe that to be true.

However, here's what most people don't hear. When you hear that a generic is "the exact same" as it's name brand counterpart, that means it's dosage, rate of absorption, and all the other criteria have to be within 20% of the original. That's pretty far from "the exact same". For instance, even though it's no longer sold, let's take this argument here: Dianabol. Okay, in our scenerio, let's say that you wanted the generic methandrostenelone instead of the name brand. The brand name Dianabol per tab in that particular lot currently has approximately 24mg of methandrostenelone on a label claim of a 20mg tab. Now, if you decide to get the generic "equivalent", it could actually contain only 16mg and have much poorer absorption than the original and still be marketed as equivalent. So technically, you could be looking at 24mg Dianabol tabs with a given absorption, as compared to a 16mg generic tab with poorer absorption yet they are still considered "comparable".

I'm not saying all generics are that off or even it that's the case here, but the fact is that there IS a difference. And that difference can be + or - 20%.

A 20% swing in both directions can be 40% total. That's a pretty big difference. But with many medications, even a 10-15% difference is very noticeable.

Add to the problem that most big brand name companies actually own generic producing labs. I don't want to get into the politics of drug companies and the way they maximize their profits, but let's just say that they want you to buy the drug (generic or name brand) from them but name brand is preferred. *wink*

 

[ironone1]

I had a guy who used to get them for us. They were the little round blue pills that came in the little blue bottle. They were methandrostenalone, can't remember if they were Ciba. I always liked the Russian ones in the blister packs. They were great but I heard they had methyl-test in them. The pill was so much bigger than any other 5mg tab I've seen.

 

[Ganabol]

How could 5mg of ciba be better than any other dbol that is also 5mg? It's the same chemical right? So using reason and logic, how could ciba be any better? Because it was a brand name? Certain prescription drugs are affected by stereo-chemical structures (racemic mixes, etc.) but dbol isnt one of these drugs. My pharmaceutical grade test works the same as the UG testosterones I have used in the past. I am all ears to hear a logical answer as I have heard this 10x before about Ciba dbol.

Not only that, but today's bbuilders are much better than those who used Dianabol by Ciba. Aren't they?

 

[mike036]

I never use Ciba dbol but I used pronabol , Balkan , Russian dbol , danabol(blue hearts ), anabols and a few ugl's over the past 20 years and I can't tell the difference from any of them .they all worked good and did what they were supposed to , if I had to pick a favorite I would choose the blue hearts

 

[blacktoppete]

I had the pleasure of using Ciba it was the shit back in the day. I also used one of our sponsors Dbol it was real damn close to Ciba.

 

[ALLEX]

 

[ThinkTank]

I trained with some school fellows that used to rave about it. One of them is a former mr america and beat Lee Haney at teen nationals back in the day. They say 25mg's worked unbelievably.
If you want to talk about old school Anadrol - the old syntex ones that said 2902 on them..IMO, most powerful drug ever. The ones nowadays are nowhere even close. I'm sure people will disagree and say it's all the same, but those with experience would probably beg to differ.

AM

Alaven Anadrol is equal to Syntex.