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Clomid cycle, thanks for input.

GND123

Banned
Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Messages
98
Hello all. I am probably going to run another clomid cycle. I am off hard stuff for 3+ years now. I am going to try to have a kid in the neart future so i dont want to shut myself down. a few questions. would you recommend 25mg/ED or 50mg/ED or 25mg EOD or 50mg EOD. also should i be using aromasin or something like that with it? and will this shut me down?
ive done a clomid cycle in the past, with great results. I am curious about the shutting down and aromasin though. i read on a different post someone ran 25mg/ED of clomid with 12.5mg ED of aromasin. thanks for the feedback.

also are there any orals like var/dbol that would not shut me down? And if so at what dose?
 
what exactly is it you are wanting to accomplish by running a clomid cycle?

is his a PCT for a cycle you are ending ?
 
Wanting to run a cycle raise test levels without being shut down at all. I'd anything boost fsh and lh
 
thanks. so this wouldnt shut me down? what should i run the aromasin @?
 
I can't say for certain whether or not YOU'LL get shut down but I don't see how it could being that it's supposed to do the opposite of shutting you down. I would start the aromasin at 12.5 EOD (maybe even E3D) and titrate upwards or downwards as needed.
 
bionic, forgive me for being ignorant, but what will be the tell tale sign of needing more or less? I have run this cycle before and i never used ANY aromasin, but i have been reading more posts and decided it seems like the way to go, from what i have gathered other people have used aromasin with clomid as a cycle.

on a side note, thanks for all of your help. this is a good post for people to read and can help someone like myself who just CANT inject. I just cant risk it. My s/o finds out she is gone forever. I stopped when i met her. its just not an option. some people are ok with it, and some people just arent. thanks for your help bionic.
 
bionic, forgive me for being ignorant, but what will be the tell tale sign of needing more or less? I have run this cycle before and i never used ANY aromasin, but i have been reading more posts and decided it seems like the way to go, from what i have gathered other people have used aromasin with clomid as a cycle.

on a side note, thanks for all of your help. this is a good post for people to read and can help someone like myself who just CANT inject. I just cant risk it. My s/o finds out she is gone forever. I stopped when i met her. its just not an option. some people are ok with it, and some people just arent. thanks for your help bionic.

My pleasure, pal. Helping our bros is what we do here! I would think that the tell-tale signs of needing to adjust the exemestane is if you feel your estrogen is getting too low, ie achey joints, low libido, etc. You would add another day or up the dose if you feel like the estrogen is too high, like smoothing out and becoming too bitchy. LOL! The goal is to increase the ratio of test: estrogen in favor of Test, not to obliterate estrogen altogether.
 
do you suggest using letro or aromasin with it? which one would be better with helping lh production?
 
do you suggest using letro or aromasin with it? which one would be better with helping lh production?
I'm not trying to step on toes but you've mentioned clomiphene (Clomid), letrozole (Femara or Fempro), anastrozole (Arimidex), and exemestane (Aromasin). You didn't even mention tamoxifen (Nolvadex).

I'm going to assume you don't have all of these just sitting in front of you wondering what to mix and match (I hope not). Hopefully, you haven't started anything yet. I want to say that taking an AI like Arimidex to combat the excess estrogen from taking Clomid is not going to do for you what you may think it will. The idea of taking an weak estrogen to activate a negative feedback loop is certainly not new but taking an aromatase inhibitor is probably going to be just bad for you. These DRUGS will disrupt your HPGA to some degree (although not as bad as AAS).

AI's also have a negative impact on your lipid profile as well. Let me say that Clomid is an outdated SERM while Nolvadex is much newer and much more selective with far few side effects with much less of the drug. Femara and Arimidex are aromatase inhibitors (so is Aromasin).

However Aromasin does not adversely effect lipids and will still increase LH and FSH levels so that you're body produces small, although significant increase in testosterone. SERM's like Clomid and Nolvadex do not lower estrogen. AI's do but there are adverse health risks. The only drug (and would never stack a bunch of anti-estrogens) I would personally ever consider for this purpose is Aromasin not just because of the safety but because the evidence for it's effectiveness is pretty widespread. See here:

Pharmacokinetics and dose finding of... [J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI

I also want to remind you that when you use an external chemical to cause a naturally-occurring reaction in the body for some time, it WILL eventually become suppressive to the endogenous mechanism. What I'm saying is that there is no free lunch and these will be inhibitory in some fashion as well causing a rebound effect with discontinuation.
 
wow. thats ALOT of info right there. ouch, are you suggesting what i am doing is NOT a good idea?

no i have none of this stuff in front of me. like i said in my original post i have ran a clomid 50mg/EOD cycle before and had good results with it. i have been reading that some people use aromasin when running a clomid cycle.

now you are suggesting just running nolvadex instead of clomid? with aromasin? i just want the best possible T increase without being shutdown and pinning.

thanks for all the info, much appreciated.
 
wow. thats ALOT of info right there. ouch, are you suggesting what i am doing is NOT a good idea?

no i have none of this stuff in front of me. like i said in my original post i have ran a clomid 50mg/EOD cycle before and had good results with it. i have been reading that some people use aromasin when running a clomid cycle.

now you are suggesting just running nolvadex instead of clomid? with aromasin? i just want the best possible T increase without being shutdown and pinning.

thanks for all the info, much appreciated.
What do you mean you had good results with it? What were the results? Did you gain muscle? Did it remain after you quit the Clomid? How do you know it was the Clomid?

There has been quite a lot of research on these AI's and SERM's to elevate testosterone levels. On the heels of much of this research came a few protocols, like your "Clomid cycle" and a few products like the one by Patrick Arnold, the inventor of THG, a steroid known as "The Clear" because it beat drug tests (the tests were "clear") and also remember the BALCO scandal? Barry Bonds, Marian Jones... etc? Well he got in trouble and after he repaid his debt to society, he began marketing a "supplement" (an AI drug, let's face it) to increase testosterone levels called 6OXO (this was a few years back). I haven't paid much attention since then and I have no idea where that whole situation is at now because I haven't spoken with him in many years.

Anyway, back then, it was noticed by many people that these protocols had some sides of their own for most people. And with the minimal hike in testosterone that you could actually get through an internal mechanism (like an LH/FSH increase) most people no longer even look at these protocols as practical (I know I don't). The study I posted above shows some moderate increase in testosterone levels without wrecking your lipid profile (cholesterol) and without the sex drive and other issues (Clomid has visual disturbances and blurred vision, etc.). If I were to do anything like this, it would be Aromasin - but even then it would be to kill the aromatase enzyme and decrease estrogen from conversion and not use it at a "steroid cycle" in itself.

The point is the fallacy that you are somehow sparing your body the damage a steroid might do and at the same time, also avoiding the needle. That's fine but as I said there's no free lunch and that Clomid you can throw in the trash for all its headaches and problems. You certainly don't need to stack two of them together no matter what the case. I'm not suggesting any cycle. I don't do that. I'm only saying that if I were to try to raise my own testosterone levels artificially through a drug, it wouldn't be Clomid or Femara, that's for sure. What happens when I stop? Then I rebound estrogen low and testosterone goes even lower than normal and I lose any size in skeletal muscle I made (if a person actually realistically made gains while doing this at all, which I highly doubt)?

I wouldn't waste my time with these drugs. Just because it's not an AAS, doesn't mean it won't impair your natural axis. Watching action movies with lots of fight scenes also raises testosterone. Ever have a great workout because you just watched Warrior or Rocky IV? Silly as it sounds, it's probably almost the same amount of increase in testosterone just not sustained like it would be with a drug.
 
damn. you are full of great information.
i appreciate your honesty. i am now rethinking this plan of action. I want to do SOMETHING to give me some type of edge. PH's?

All in all ouch what you have said makes alot of sense. I just want something to give me an edge. I know you said you dont suggest cycles, but can you suggest ANYTHING that would be worth it to give me an edge. pro hormones, test boosters, etc. whatever. it doesnt have to be a clomid or AI or whatever.

My main goal is to have the edge, without pinning. I did use the needle for many years. And believe me if i could, i would. but i just cant. ive been clean for about 3 years now.

Thanks again for your time in answering and replying to this post. it is much appreciated. i respect people with alot of knowledge like yourself willing to share it with others.
 
Hello,

A couple years ago i had bloodwork done to test my testosterone level. it wasnt low but deffinitly not high (510 range: 300-1200) i wanted to be at the hight end of normal so i decided to do a cycle of clomid. I went on clomid for 6 months and got retested at the end of the clomid therapy and my testosterone was at 1000 ng/dl. this was 25mg daily which i recomend.

the conclusion i can make is clomid does work for raising T, and for me was pretty side effect free. I had a small libido boost and performance in the gym was pretty much the same.

the point i want to make and i now belive is true is boosting testosterone from mid-normal to high-normal will baisicly do nothing. I think the only way to feel the effects of modulating testosterone is if you are clinicly low, or you go to superphysicolgial levels

just wanted to give some feedback

all have a good day,
 
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Hello,

A couple years ago i had bloodwork done to test my testosterone level. it wasnt low but deffinitly not high (510 range: 300-1200) i wanted to be at the hight end of normal so i decided to do a cycle of clomid. I went on clomid for 6 months and got retested at the end of the clomid therapy and my testosterone was at 1000 ng/dl. this was 25mg daily which i recomend.

the conclusion i can make is clomid does work for raising T, and for me was pretty side effect free. I had a small libido boost and performance in the gym was pretty much the same.

the point i want to make and i now belive is true is boosting testosterone from mid-normal to high-normal will baisicly do nothing. I think the only way to feel the effects of modulating testosterone is if you are clinicly low, or you go to superphysicolgial levels

just wanted to give some feedback

all have a good day,
I believe you have it correct and you learned what I'm trying to say through experience. The studies bear that out pretty clearly. I see a lot of 50% increase, 60, 70, 100% increase. But in your case, as a good example, your T even after what, six months of Clomid, even with 100% increase, was not even enough to put you over the normal range for adult males! People hear 70% increase and they think 70% more muscle or 70% faster recovery. Just doesn't work that way. I can do more with a good diet, proper training, and consistency. The types of T levels where performance begins to show dramatic enhancement is inhumanly high.

I'm a believer in TRT and have experienced for myself an improved mood, energy, sex drive, etc. with just a small dose of T putting me in a high range of normal (1000-1500ng/dL) but nothing that is going to turn me into a powerhouse at the gym or give me a competitive advantage.

When you're a 220lb male walking around with the testosterone level of your average rhino. Yeah, that'll make a difference. But even then, it takes years. Otherwise, you just return to the way you were (sometimes worse). Squats and deadlifts did more to change my bone and skeletal muscle structure than anything else - and hit the creatine too, if you can.
 
ok ouch. thanks alot man.

you have been awesome.

let me ask you this though. at a LOW DOSE does DBOL shut you down? or even at a high dose? would you need an AI with it
 
In the end, the OP wants to boost test and fertility. Clomid is indicated (and shown to be safe) for both of these goals in a clinical setting.
No, in the end, as you put it, the OP said this:
GND123 said:
My main goal is to have the edge, without pinning. I did use the needle for many years. And believe me if i could, i would.
Now, for God's sake, don't start an argument with me here. I have already said, and I know that SERMs, and also AIs, can have an increase in testosterone. But whether this translates to TRT claims of increased bone density and skeletal muscle IN OTHERWISE ALREADY HEALTHY MALES is a debatable fact. How do we know that while on this "Clomid protocol" subjects weren't more consistent in their training (also raises testosterone), eating and protein (also increases testosterone), and psychologically more focused (DEFINITELY increases testosterone). So, you see, while all your points are equally viable, they are not quantifiable in any real sense in the real world. Common logic would suggest that within the normal range of testosterone for healthy males, there is no way to quantify the benefits to going from say 400ng's/dL to 900ng's/dL - both of which are such a tremendously small amount that if you saw the amount, you'd scarcely wonder how it makes a difference at all.

Your points are well taken, and so as to give the OP something to think about. But what I believe this gentleman wants and what he's going to get with a Clomid 25/day dosage are radically different.
 
Bionic said:
OTH, why wouldn't increased T lead to increased muscle mass and bone density improvement in healthy males? That's what T does. As the OP stated in the OP, he's already done a CC cycle with what he considers to be favorable results. He originally stated that he's worried about getting shut down and fertility. CC will help with fertility, raise his T and not shut him down. How did we end up here?
The key word here becomes healthy males. A healthy male in the normal range, is going to have a response to progressive training and that will be his response. If someone is below normal (hypogonadic) then a boost will surely have a positive effect as you have said. But a healthy male, producing healthy amounts of testosterone is very highly unlikely to "notice" any benefit from a 50 or 60 percent increase in serum T. Let's be realistic. Your body processeses create bone and resistance training increase density but testosterone in not THE ENGINE behind that. Otherwise, there would be no point in a female weight training at all. Not all muscle and skeletal muscle maintenance is androgen receptor mediated. Take my example of a female. If SHE can add muscle and bone density through training, diet, and consistency, with a T level below the male average, how is that possible? This is the point that even a male would have to be severely deficient to notice any benefit (in other words, "feel") a benefit - even less would be visible to the naked eye.

The point made earlier I'm pretty firm on which is that taking a healthy male at 500ng's/dL and boosting him up to 900 or 1000ng's/ is simply not going to make much of a damn difference. The reason being is that we all have our points or homeostasis where our testosterone levels fall in. If we are in all ways healthy, how much healthier will adding a 100mg of T per week do for this person? IMO, none. Testosterone is not the only reason our bones are dense and our muscles are strong. Testosterone need only be present in adequate quantities to facilitate health and all these things.

Now, supra-physiological doses of exogenous androgenic and anabolic compounds causes a massive receptor surge in muscle cells and throughout the body that creates an effect that is NOT NORMAL. This is advantageous to BBers, athletes, and powerlifters. But putting someone at the high end of normal when they were already within normal range? Nah. I highly doubt it.
 
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Let's approach this another way. The average healthy male produces 50-75mgs of testosterone/wk. Let's say I take over my test production and start injecting 75mg per week of free testosterone. Now let's say I give myself a big boost and bump myself up to 100mg/wk??? What difference in gains and performance do you think I'm going to get?

Do you know that even moderate-level gear usage is around 400-600mg/wk???

I've seen advanced users taking 2000mg's/wk, along with 100mg Dianabol/day and 50mg/day of Anadrol.

I don't know if the OP wants to become more fertile, not get shut down, and still gain an advantage right? Well forget it. Taking 25mg of Clomid per day is not going to give him an advantage for shit. But go ahead. Knock yourself out. Take 50, screw it. Maybe it's dose respondent...
 
But putting someone at the high end of normal when they were already within normal range? Nah. I highly doubt it.

I posted a link to a study that used Clomid on healthy men. It raised some of their test levels by 300%. I would think that would make a noticeable difference in their physiques and performance. Again, the OP already stated that he's done a CC cycle with what he considers to be a favorable result. He won't pin exo. T for his own reasons. CC has been proven to do the things he's looking for both clinically and in his own experience. His main questions were asking if Aromasin will shut him down, which it will not.
 

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