clomid or nolvadex

[din'e warrior]

What is the better serm to use post cycle and why? I know that clomid works but have never used nolvadex.

 

[Researchstop]

Use Clomid.
Reasons stated in the link in my signature.
Do not use Nolva.

 

[din'e warrior]

Use Clomid.
Reasons stated in the link in my signature.
Do not use Nolva.

What is your recommended pct?

 

[Researchstop]

PCT design is based on the cycle it follows. So I would have to know that.

 

[SacToSD]

PCT design is based on the cycle it follows. So I would have to know that.

hey! you're back! I haven't seen you around in a while. Keep up the good work. Maybe I can put a researchstop link in my signature for you? If I get a discount, of course

 

[din'e warrior]

PCT design is based on the cycle it follows. So I would have to know that.

400mg of test eth
12 weeks

 

[Chipper Jones78]

400mg of test eth
12 weeks

bump.

I would like to know researchstop's recomendation on the above out of curosity

 

[Cobra008]

I have always been told to you both clomid and nolva, because they are for different things...

however recently more people are leaning away from nolva and going towards aromisen...

so I'd say clomid and aromisen...

 

[Swifto]

What is the better serm to use post cycle and why? I know that clomid works but have never used nolvadex.

Clomid or Tamox. Both are very good at restoring the HPTA.

I like low dose Clomid with either Tamox or Toremifene.

A recent study on Tamox (Apr 2009) stated it was very effective at raising endogenous testosterone levels in hypogondal men.

 

[MikeS]

If you use Aromisin you really shouldnt need a blocker (clo and nol). BUT...
as its known there is only one AR (androgen receptor), so it stands to reason that there is only one ER (estrogen receptor)...so its curious as to why clo and nolv would be alot different, since both are blockers and are almost identical in molecular structure. But they are...pituatary ER is more sensitive to clomid, and breast/fat ER receptors to nolv. So there must be actions outside the ER...as with clomid being shown to mimic LH thus stimulating test production. For that reason alone I would use clo with any cycle and also in PCT.

 

[efw]

If you use Aromisin you really shouldnt need a blocker (clo and nol). BUT...
as its known there is only one AR (androgen receptor), so it stands to reason that there is only one ER (estrogen receptor)...so its curious as to why clo and nolv would be alot different, since both are blockers and are almost identical in molecular structure. But they are...pituatary ER is more sensitive to clomid, and breast/fat ER receptors to nolv. So there must be actions outside the ER...as with clomid being shown to mimic LH thus stimulating test production. For that reason alone I would use clo with any cycle and also in PCT.

Mike, how would you recomend using clomid during cycle?

 

[MikeS]

On cycle, I just use clo 50mg EOD, like M-W-F...post cycle 50-100mg ED.
You can tell the difference during the cycle...the 'boys' stay fuller, and thats a direct indication that the HPTA is still functioning to some degree.

 

[Macro]

clomid can be used on cycle, though even lower doses are sufficient. though desensitization prior to post cycle because of on cycle use MAY not be ideal for some.


most people dose clomiphene too high, there really is no reason to frontload for PCT.

obviously if using aromatic steroids, the use of an AI (with preference for exemestane) on cycle and at a lower dose during PCT can be very beneficial.

limiting DHT conversion with MILD 5alpha reductase inhibition may also reduce suppression on cycle. as a note- most people also over dose these compounds, which can be very problematic.

 

[MikeS]

Part of the progress made during cycles can be attributed to slightly elevated DHT and Estro levels...this has been proven time and again in scientific research.
So you are correct that overdose on the AI and 5AR products is not productive. There is a trick to supression but not over-supression, its a fine line to walk between just enough, but too much.

clomid can be used on cycle, though even lower doses are sufficient. though desensitization prior to post cycle because of on cycle use MAY not be ideal for some.


most people dose clomiphene too high, there really is no reason to frontload for PCT.

obviously if using aromatic steroids, the use of an AI (with preference for exemestane) on cycle and at a lower dose during PCT can be very beneficial.

limiting DHT conversion with MILD 5alpha reductase inhibition may also reduce suppression on cycle. as a note- most people also over dose these compounds, which can be very problematic.

 

[Macro]

If you use Aromisin you really shouldnt need a blocker (clo and nol). BUT...
as its known there is only one AR (androgen receptor), so it stands to reason that there is only one ER (estrogen receptor)...so its curious as to why clo and nolv would be alot different, since both are blockers and are almost identical in molecular structure. But they are...pituatary ER is more sensitive to clomid, and breast/fat ER receptors to nolv. So there must be actions outside the ER...as with clomid being shown to mimic LH thus stimulating test production. For that reason alone I would use clo with any cycle and also in PCT.

there are actually at least 3 estrogen receptor subtypes (alpha and beta with further alpha and beta subtypes within the beta receptor subtype) and at least 2 androgen receptor subtypes (alpha and beta there are likely more. and tamoxifen and clomiphene having actually rather divergent binding profiles both to the ER as well as at non-genomic sites.

Clomiphene does not mimic LH, it directly stimulates LH release.

 

[jay_dub]

I got a question for you guys (Mike and Macro).

I've been taking aromasin throughout my cycle (10 weeks of test and tren) at 17.5 mg per day, and now I'm 2 weeks into pct. The last 2 weeks I've been taking 12.5 mg of aromasin and 100mg of clomid. I was thinking to continue the aromasin at 12.5mg and bump the clomid down to 50mg per day for 2 more weeks. Does this sound right?

 

[Macro]

yes. drop it down. Really, there is little reason to run at 100mg for any period of time (as the literature, clinicals and anecdotal reports do not support such dosing-- except to increase incidence of sides)

 

[MikeS]

VERY true...the sides really tend to pop up at 100mg ED...50mg is sufficient PCT.