"coaches" should be paying top competitors, not the other way around

[Biggerp73]

Recently Ian started working with Matt Jensen

This got me once again thinking

First, these charlatans don't know shit that anyone with common sense and a few years of gear use and studying the forums don't know.

Second, virtually all top competitor already knows more than these frauds, and more than that, they've already came in diced and peeled several times before so they know how to do it again and don't need a coach to teach them.

Third, and most importantly, these "coaches," while doing nothing for their clients that they can't already do for themselves, profit immensely from having big name competitors. These big name guys probably charge amateur and regular clients around $500/month for "coaching." Having a single client like Ian (much less someone like Derek Lunsford or Nick Walker) will bring in no less then a few hundred people wanting to hire them. That's at bare minimum $50k/month in clients that having a top competitor is going to bring in for these "coaches." And yet last I heard, they were still charging their top competitors a percentage of winnings. This is just plain stupid.

If your a guy like Nick Walker or Chris Bumstead, already selling your image and likeness for big sums of money to supplement companies etc, you should full well know that the ability for these "coaches" to promote themselves as "your coach" is immensely profitable for them, and you should be charging THEM for the ability to have you as a "client", not giving them a percentage of YOUR winnings.

 

[Fleezy]

I wonder if a lot of these higher-tier coaches have access to very high quality PED’s - like the mythical increlex and all that

Maybe Hany has loads of friends with HIV - from whom he is able to get limitless human grade HGH

Aside from that, having a coach who is very knowledgeable about diet and metabolism can be of great help

 

[Pheedno]

If everyone with a few years experience could do it well. They would.
If there wasn't a demand, it wouldn't exist.
If bodybuilders were the most psychologically sound during the process, perhaps more would do it themselves.
If bodybuilders could, would and cared to pay more attention to detail then perhaps the demand would be lower.

I see your point. I think it's generally valid and precisely false

 

[Slim23]

Lmao the OP really thinks he would be able to do what a top coach can do with your subpar physique

 

[luki7788]

but Bodybuilders like top mr.o don't pay top trainers for coaching

 

[Fleezy]

If everyone with a few years experience could do it well. They would.
If there wasn't a demand, it wouldn't exist.
If bodybuilders were the most psychologically sound during the process, perhaps more would do it themselves.
If bodybuilders could, would and cared to pay more attention to detail then perhaps the demand would be lower.

I see your point. I think it's generally valid and precisely false

Indeed.

OP has likely never been staged peeled, dug out, questioning everything about everything

That’s a big part of the value of a quality coach - a set of impartial eyes that don’t have severe diet brain

 

[Fleezy]

but Bodybuilders like top mr.o don't pay top trainers for coaching

Indeed

Jansen said Nick doesn’t pay him for her services

 

[Pheedno]

To add. Nearly all bodybuilders grossly overestimate their knowledge of the process and grossly underestimate how much body fat they're carrying.

 

[MR. BMJ]

Interesting angle. I would just say though that nobody has to actually sign with a coach, so it's not like somebody is putting a gun to their head to agree with their demands/contract/fees. They may be signing up with the coach's for ease and many other reasons, despite them having the knowledge to do it all themselves.

On a different note, i've seen, at least from lower division competitions all the way up to Nationals, guys getting their name recognized by signing up with one of these coach's. So while it may not help them as much from a recognition standpoint as pros, it seems to, at least for some, help them prior to becoming a pro in many cases...that and their actual look.

There are a lot of pros who do not know what they are doing when it comes to the final weeks, or even in the off-season when it comes to making progress after a sticking point. Many do obviously, but some made it to that level because of very good genetics and not having to work near as hard as those with less fortunate genetics. At the pro level, they are just a dime a dozen, and if you are not in the top 10, and do not know how to make the extra leap into it, then they may need to sign up somebody to help them.

I think with guys like Bumstead, Cutler and the top guys, they have so much else going on for them from a business standpoint, let alone if they have a wife and kids, that having somebody control their diet and prep takes a lot of stress away from them.

I don't think any of this is rocket science, but if it's a matter of getting a fatter paycheck and better sponsors for that few extra spots up the ladder, and if it financially doesn't hurt them (or helps them), then it may be a good choice.

Some of the coach's, like Chris, have really good eyes on making adjustments the final weeks, and that is where they shine. Some of these guys competing don't have that experience, outside of maybe a few of them. I've seen a lot of guys, top guys, make stupid moves the final week or two and it's costed them financially.

That said, there are guys who most definitely can do it all on their own.

For lower level guys, they should learn their bodies, and I agree, they could get a ton of free help and suggestions from these forums.

 

[Slim23]

To add. Nearly all bodybuilders grossly overestimate their knowledge of the process and grossly underestimate how much body fat they're carrying.

Exactly . The OP has a subpar physique . He doesent know what the benefit of having a top coach is

 

[KillerStack]

Of course they should logically pay but at least in general your stars don't pay anything. I'm sure involvement differs between athletes, it may just be an Instagram "Collab." Differen't coaches collab between themselves openly chasing "clout."

Of course they don't know or do anything we don't know or do, they learned and keep learning on the forums just like the rest of us (if we are the technical type. I'm sure a few pros at least don't know or CARE what they did for last years Mr O). They don't care what every compound is supposed to do, it's not interesting in the least.

A real coach who actually structures an atheletes diet, training and drugs must work well psychologically together. If they do, most of the advantage is here.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Indeed.

OP has likely never been staged peeled, dug out, questioning everything about everything

That’s a big part of the value of a quality coach - a set of impartial eyes that don’t have severe diet brain

This exactly.

Sorry OP, but you’re immediately excluded from having this opinion because you’ve never been stage lean. You haven’t tried to do it yourself nor have you had someone else do it for you.

 

[KillerStack]

Exactly . The OP has a subpar physique . He doesent know what the benefit of having a top coach is

Are you familiar with him from GB and did you see how he transformed from that kid on the bike to now.

 

[Slim23]

Are you familiar with him from GB and did you see how he transformed from that kid on the bike to now.

Still has a subpar physique

 

[slesh]

I think the value of a good coach is their ability to look at their client as they get closer to a show and start manipulating their diet, training and gear use on an ultra granular level.

I talked to Shaun about his relationship with Matt and he said he loves Matt because when they’re a few weeks out from a show Matt literally can tell Shaun down to the gram of green beans what he should be changing and Shaun claims he absolutely sees the difference and wouldn’t be able to do this on his own. I think having that second pair of eyes is key.

#justmy2cents

 

[slesh]

Still has a subpar physique

How about you make more contributions than just being a troll? What are the odds this is one of the dude’s who has been banned 17 times?

 

[TheOtherOne55]

How about you make more contributions than just being a troll? What are the odds this is one of the dude’s who has been banned 17 times?

I get it. But let’s call a spade a spade.
The vast majority of people who think coaches are snake oil salesman believe they can do it themselves. No, they cannot. In fact, verrrry few people can. “Oh you can find all that info in a forum,” is that so? Go get to stage condition then, please. I would love to see. Then peak yourself.

If u want to rip coaches, rip coaches who do 1 show, barely following the plan of someone else, before regurgitating the same info to unsuspecting kids at their local gym. Those people are the bad ones. Just a weird rant to start a thread about.

 

[Slim23]

How about you make more contributions than just being a troll? What are the odds this is one of the dude’s who has been banned 17 times?

I’m a troll because I’m spitting facts ? Obviously you haven’t had a coach to know what you’re talking about .

 

[fisther69]

They are just paying for a better drug source, and an objective set of eyes usually..there are a few outliers though

 

[CorgisOnTren]

Youre not just paying for knowledge with coach. You’re paying for a second eye, and someone to take the wheel so you don’t have to. Many bodybuilders can get their own head and easily go off the rails.

If these competitors wanted to coach themselves then they would. They clearly see value in having a coach, and see it as a worthy investment. Not to mention I doubt these top guys are even paying.