Collagen synthesis and joint health.

[DOGGCRAPP]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed...KfCEQNsK39ujO0GbvstLgvUHzbmhJ3x7S0wxa6H4Rs_p4

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed...0W34d5tf_3s6IC3p8tJ5DaMx-qNehoLgR8lqMbBJf1oIY

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21251991/

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19212858/

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17076983ent.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

You may want to check into that a bit further. I used that product for awhile when my joints were killing me after seeing Dante recommend type 2 collagen as the only product he had seen with any real studies showing any regeneration of joints, which as I believe Got Game often mentions, is practically impossible. So I went back to the site after using it awhile and not really feeling any improvement to make sure I had bought type 2, and couldn't find anything saying one way or the other. I actually called them and asked them...it's not type 2. Now I am not saying that product doesn't have any benefits, but you may want to research it a bit more. Now the GH on the other hand over the past half a year or so has made a major improvement in nearly everything save for the elbow tendinitis I have had since my early 30's, so I suspect that is more of a "need surgery at this point" issue than anything else.

At 50 yrs old now I am way past the things that help by masking the underlying issue (like Deca, advil, etc.) and only care about the stuff that truly heals or helps prolong my lifting hobby. That benefit of GH alone is well worth the price of admission IMO as nothing holds me back more nowadays than nagging injuries or aches and pains.

You and i have been friends for a long time. I will absolutely 100% prove something to you on my dollar. And i can do this because I know this will work. I will give you two products (on the house) and within 2 months I guarantee you will feel strongly about them. Ive been giving this to quite a few pro and top am friends i have and they are raving about being able to do lunges when they couldnt previously, and a bunch of other personal testimonials about their elbows, knees, shoulders etc between them and I. You know my email address....email me and I will prove this to you. {like i said on the house}...(just between you and I)

 

[Elvia1023]

Exactly. It reminds me of the old mentality of when they used to make bodybuilding tablets from bull orchic (testicles) and even adrenal glands. Once that stuff hits the digestive system it is all broken down into building blocks like amino acids.

It's a weird one and my views are mixed even after stating what I did in my 1st post in this thread. You have the likes of Dr Layne Norton (I think is a great source of info) who flat out thinks all collagen supplements are a scam. His reasoning is what you/me posted and how the body simply breaks it down before it can be used. However, I would doubt he has ever tried it but I do understand his reasoning for the most part.

I have read tonnes of studies and fact is some should merit in HC supplementation. One study even showed the difference between using HC and whey protein. Then comes the user reviews and the countless people stating they noticed improved skin, nails etc. I noticed the same so that is evidence that the body does treat HC ingestion differently to WP for example (I don't notice the same taking in WP). That could be evidence of increased regeneration even if nails are made of keratin (as his hair) and are essentially dead cells. Nevertheless, HC does seem to assist in a few processes and can also help with joint pain.

As I always post if someone is unsure try it and see for yourselves. That's simply the only way to know. I have done that myself and personally would use my money on other things now. It was useful but nothing special for me.

 

[Kaladryn]

Summary: Collagen hydrolysate may be an effective nutritional supplement for those suffering from osteoarthritis." (excerpt from data "In March 2003, Oesser et al. demonstrated for the first time that collagen hydrolysate stimulates collagen synthesis in cartilage cells (Cell Tissue Res 311:393-399). The enrichment of a chondrocyte cell culture medium with collagen hydrolysate led to a significant, dose-dependent stimulation of collagen synthesis in cartilage cells, that was not detectable in the controls.
Studies conducted by the renowned American specialist Roland Moskowitz, MD on 389 patients in the USA, Great Britain and Germany also found a pain-relieving effect from collagen hydrolysate. The patients were able to significantly reduce their consumption of analgesics and reported an improvement in physical function.
Experimental and clinical studies have found that:
Collagen hydrolysate stimulates the synthesis of type II collagen in articular cartilage
Taking collagen hydrolysate can lead to a significant reduction in pain among osteoarthritis patients
Taking collagen hydrolysate, osteoarthritis patients may be able to reduce their consumption of analgesics
Physiological functions of the joints improve significantly

Increased collagen is generally great for cartilage but not so much for tendons. I don't think taking type II collagen would have any negative effect on tendons since they are repaired by type III collagen, however, anything that promotes overall collagen synthesis is probably going to negatively efffect tendons in the long run. Type II collagen is fairly cartilage specific I think.

 

[Kaladryn]

It's a weird one and my views are mixed even after stating what I did in my 1st post in this thread. You have the likes of Dr Layne Norton (I think is a great source of info) who flat out thinks all collagen supplements are a scam. His reasoning is what you/me posted and how the body simply breaks it down before it can be used. However, I would doubt he has ever tried it but I do understand his reasoning for the most part.

I have read tonnes of studies and fact is some should merit in HC supplementation. One study even showed the difference between using HC and whey protein. Then comes the user reviews and the countless people stating they noticed improved skin, nails etc. I noticed the same so that is evidence that the body does treat HC ingestion differently to WP for example (I don't notice the same taking in WP). That could be evidence of increased regeneration even if nails are made of keratin (as his hair) and are essentially dead cells. Nevertheless, HC does seem to assist in a few processes and can also help with joint pain.

As I always post if someone is unsure try it and see for yourselves. That's simply the only way to know. I have done that myself and personally would use my money on other things now. It was useful but nothing special for me.

There are many, many things that conventional biology has thought would have no oral bioavailability because they are broken down by the stomach during digestion that has been shown to actually have an effect. Cartilage definitely has bio-availability. Bases and acids have an effect on overall body PH orally. Proteins are not all broken down to aminos during digestion, enzymes grab blocks of already formed proteins for reuse as is without being broken down further.

 

[LK3]

There are many, many things that conventional biology has thought would have no oral bioavailability because they are broken down by the stomach during digestion that has been shown to actually have an effect. Cartilage definitely has bio-availability. Bases and acids have an effect on overall body PH orally. Proteins are not all broken down to aminos during digestion, enzymes grab blocks of already formed proteins for reuse as is without being broken down further.

you been on point with all this so far bro much respect so correct me if im wrong here but consuming cartilage is very different from most sups. and may have merit i think there are buts though? no? lol


i think this is an example of natural being very different then sups.

 

[Fa Seeshus]

There is an injectable collagen promoting vet product called Adequan. I tried it when I was having some really bad patellar tendon issues. Seemed to help some.

 

[Kaladryn]

you been on point with all this so far bro much respect so correct me if im wrong here but consuming cartilage is very different from most sups. and may have merit i think there are buts though? no? lol


i think this is an example of natural being very different then sups.

I was just using cartilage as an example, it is one of the things we don't eat very much of anymore and likely a reason we need things like collagen and glucosamine in our diets. Dogs that eat more cartilage have less joint problems too.

There is an injectable collagen promoting vet product called Adequan. I tried it when I was having some really bad patellar tendon issues. Seemed to help some.

Adequan is pretty much just an injectable form of glucosamine, I've used it, my dog has used it, my Vet's sister has used it (he says), we report positive results. It was approved in the EU and in Stage III trials here when it was mysteriously pulled because of two deaths, one very old person who had a stroke and the other was a diabetic. Over 200,000 people had used it without problems and there was no direct connection between adequan and the deaths other than it is a slight blood thinner. The mad cow scare may have also contributed to the pulling of the drug for human use. I personally think it worked too well and although adequan is a brand name, it can be produced generically.

 

[maldorf]

Adequan is pretty much just an injectable form of glucosamine, I've used it, my dog has used it, my Vet's sister has used it (he says), we report positive results. It was approved in the EU and in Stage III trials here when it was mysteriously pulled because of two deaths, one very old person who had a stroke and the other was a diabetic. Over 200,000 people had used it without problems and there was no direct connection between adequan and the deaths other than it is a slight blood thinner. The mad cow scare may have also contributed to the pulling of the drug for human use. I personally think it worked too well and although adequan is a brand name, it can be produced generically.

Now that makes sense, if it is being injected into the body and not going through the digestive system.

 

[Kaladryn]

Now that makes sense, if it is being injected into the body and not going through the digestive system.

It works best injected directly into the joint capsule, that is how it was designed to work on horses. Since then it has been found to be active systemically also.

There seems to be some debate in vet circles about whether it works well enough systemically to be worth using, some vets say it doesn't do shit unless put directly in the joint capsule.

 

[maldorf]

It works best injected directly into the joint capsule, that is how it was designed to work on horses. Since then it has been found to be active systemically also.

There seems to be some debate in vet circles about whether it works well enough systemically to be worth using, some vets say it doesn't do shit unless put directly in the joint capsule.

So you had good results off of using it? I wonder if they make a human grade. If they did I think that it would be a gold mine.

 

[maldorf]

On a side note, new legislation

I am glad that they finally did this:


https://gizmodo.com/pharma-companies-will-soon-be-required-to-list-drug-pri-1834606229

Saw it announced today on the news. The administration put this one out, no input from the useless congress needed! I think it takes effect in 60 days.

 

[Dog-Slime]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20225319

BPC used orally

 

[LK3]

I was just using cartilage as an example, it is one of the things we don't eat very much of anymore and likely a reason we need things like collagen and glucosamine in our diets. Dogs that eat more cartilage have less joint problems too.



Adequan is pretty much just an injectable form of glucosamine, I've used it, my dog has used it, my Vet's sister has used it (he says), we report positive results. It was approved in the EU and in Stage III trials here when it was mysteriously pulled because of two deaths, one very old person who had a stroke and the other was a diabetic. Over 200,000 people had used it without problems and there was no direct connection between adequan and the deaths other than it is a slight blood thinner. The mad cow scare may have also contributed to the pulling of the drug for human use. I personally think it worked too well and although adequan is a brand name, it can be produced generically.

yeah i dont remember if it was an article or study going into the details of cartaledge in diet or the lack there of..but quite interesting and potentially applicable here.

pentosan sulfate i think is the other thing that was used for ia admin that was supposed to be great but i dont think i know anyone that got very good results with it.

in theory hya too for ia but it has to be a higher molecular weight i believe.

i tried hya im for systemic and may have had very mild results, though i feel it helped other things more. i have a few ppl who seem to get some benefit from it.

 

[Kaladryn]

yeah i dont remember if it was an article or study going into the details of cartaledge in diet or the lack there of..but quite interesting and potentially applicable here.

pentosan sulfate i think is the other thing that was used for ia admin that was supposed to be great but i dont think i know anyone that got very good results with it.

in theory hya too for ia but it has to be a higher molecular weight i believe.

i tried hya im for systemic and may have had very mild results, though i feel it helped other things more. i have a few ppl who seem to get some benefit from it.

Hyaluronic acid? It definitely seems to work, better in the joint than systemically but I believe I found it is a possible and likely carcinogen? I forget.

 

[RoidRage300]

I use joint vibrance and it’s amazing. It’s really the only OTC supplement that has worked.

Mk and deca are good too


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