Competing in light-heavyweight

[VNV]

Competing in light-heavyweight for first time?

I was thinking about doing my state's open NPC show next April.

What size are these guys in the 176 lbs - 198 lbs class when they're not preparing for a show?

I know everyone's different, but I'm just looking for a general idea. (So don't flame me with "How should we know your body, idiot?!" )

Currently I'm 220 and 18% (180 lbs of fat-free mass), so I know I've got a lot of work to do. Trying to get my body fat down to the low teens.

How big should I be before starting to diet in order to get down to 4 or 5% body fat?

Are these guys like 250 and 15% before they diet down, or like 230 and 10%, or what?

I'm just trying to figure out what size (ballpark) I should bulk to before I dial in the diet 16 weeks out.

I've spent the last five years bulking up from 150ish lbs to compete, and I'm really hoping next year will be my year to shine.

 

[hawkmoon]

Real quick reply here, but I competed in NPC teen local and national shows as a light heavy. I was 220-225 @ about 9-12% off-season and came down to 196-197 for my shows. I was one of the bigger kids, but not the hardest - maybe 5% BF. I'm sure I lost muscle during the diet, but that was OK, because at 5'8" I didn't want to be in the heavies.

 

[SABAGOY]

Looking at it that way will only prevent you from ever competing...You will keep thinking you need to be bigger or leaner before you can start to get ready for a show. You have no idea how your body will react to a contest diet making it impossible to aim for a specific weight. Your body might hold muscle very easily or even gain following such a strict diet. Or you might need to drop a lot of weight to get as lean as you need to be.

My suggestions...keep doing what your doing till the new year then start dieting and do the show with a goal of coming in the best shape you possibly can. If you come in the best you can your weight wont matter.

 

[VNV]

Real quick reply here, but I competed in NPC teen local and national shows as a light heavy. I was 220-225 @ about 9-12% off-season and came down to 196-197 for my shows. I was one of the bigger kids, but not the hardest - maybe 5% BF. I'm sure I lost muscle during the diet, but that was OK, because at 5'8" I didn't want to be in the heavies.

Thanks for the input. I definitely think I should try to get down a little leaner right now. It'd be great to be half my body fat and same weight. We'll see how (im)possible that may be.

 

[VNV]

Looking at it that way will only prevent you from ever competing...You will keep thinking you need to be bigger or leaner before you can start to get ready for a show. You have no idea how your body will react to a contest diet making it impossible to aim for a specific weight. Your body might hold muscle very easily or even gain following such a strict diet. Or you might need to drop a lot of weight to get as lean as you need to be.

My suggestions...keep doing what your doing till the new year then start dieting and do the show with a goal of coming in the best shape you possibly can. If you come in the best you can your weight wont matter.

You're right. Thanks for the advice. I'm focusing on getting my body fat down into the low teens right now, safely, and then I'll have to reevaluate based on what weight I am when I'm 12 or 13%. Every once in a while you hear about a guy that actually gains weight while dieting. Shit, I'd blow my load if I started gaining weight. But I guess the point is, you never know!

 

[oldfella]

You're right. Thanks for the advice. I'm focusing on getting my body fat down into the low teens right now, safely, and then I'll have to reevaluate based on what weight I am when I'm 12 or 13%. Every once in a while you hear about a guy that actually gains weight while dieting. Shit, I'd blow my load if I started gaining weight. But I guess the point is, you never know!

You should be focusing on getting your bodyfat down as low as you possibly can and earn some lean mass while you do it. That is and should be the primary goal. You have 7 months to do this. Very achieveable if you do things right. 18% is too high to see what you have underneath.

 

[big as a house]

how tall are you what type of diet and workout reg are you following now

 

[VNV]

how tall are you what type of diet and workout reg are you following now

5"11", and I just switched over to a low-carb. diet with a no-carb. introductory period of 2 weeks.

So I've been no-carbing it 5 out of 7 days for the last two weeks, and I've gone from 227 and 22% to 220 and 18%.

I just added in cardio last week for the first time in my life. Doing about 3 times a week, switching between 60 minutes of low-intensity cardio and 20 - 25 minutes of high-intensity interval training.

My lifting is basically squats, dead lifts, and bench, with rows, leg presses, farmers walk, flies, pull-ups, and chin-ups mixed in, five days a week.

 

[VNV]

You should be focusing on getting your bodyfat down as low as you possibly can and earn some lean mass while you do it. That is and should be the primary goal. You have 7 months to do this. Very achieveable if you do things right. 18% is too high to see what you have underneath.

It was a real wake-up call getting the dunk-tank done. I've always thought of myself as a hard-gaining skinny ecto, and suddenly I realize that after five years of stuffing my face to gain weight, I'm too fat! Glad to hear I'm on the right track (losing body fat). Thanks old!

 

[Paul Bunyan]

How did you find a dunk tank in your area? How much did it cost you?

PB

 

[nickyfregs]

Bro I was 237 last year and cut down to LH (just made it tho). My buddy who took 1st at the Junior USA's started at like 260 or something. Some dudes are lean to begin with and are in the 220's so bottom line.... everyone is DIFFERENT!

 

[VNV]

How did you find a dunk tank in your area? How much did it cost you?

PB

Get this: it's a mobile truck! And the guy who owns it in my area drives it around to the various gyms throughout the month. I could easily get it tested every two weeks with this guy, but I plan to do it once a month.

Check it out, there are trucks in other areas too. The site is BodyFatTest.com, and here are the areas where there are trucks:

**broken link removed**

I found out about it after I saw a business card on the gym bulletin board.

The cost was $45 for the first time, and any time after that was either $36 or $38 bucks.

Pretty cool deal. Plus the guy sees a TON of people and their body fat. He has some interesting stories and knows a lot about nutrition, dieting, and body builders.

 

[VNV]

Bro I was 237 last year and cut down to LH (just made it tho). My buddy who took 1st at the Junior USA's started at like 260 or something. Some dudes are lean to begin with and are in the 220's so bottom line.... everyone is DIFFERENT!

How fat were you guys at those weights?

Or were you relatively lean and losing a ton of muscle is just part of the dieting-for-show process?

I'm completely serious--I don't know how any of this stuff works. (Like I said, been bulking my entire weight training life.)

 

[Paul Bunyan]

Thanks for the info VNV.

PB

 

[Wolfpack]

losing a ton of muscle is just part of the dieting-for-show process?

That's definitely not "suppose" to be part of the process. You may lose a little, but not a ton. Start early and lose the fat slow. If this is the first time doing cardio, I don't think you need to start off with 60 minute sessions either.

 

[Fa Seeshus]

anyone dieting down from 18% bodyfat is going to "lose" muscle, because the muscle really wasn't there in the first place.

i have seen this way too many times.

you need a leaner offseason in order to really know where you are.

what bodyfat testing method are you using? i like parillo 9 point.

 

[VNV]

anyone dieting down from 18% bodyfat is going to "lose" muscle, because the muscle really wasn't there in the first place.

i have seen this way too many times.

you need a leaner offseason in order to really know where you are.

what bodyfat testing method are you using? i like parillo 9 point.

Consider that I've never dieted in 5 years, and I've never done cardio in 5 years. Who knows what will happen when I get serious. In fact, on the no/low-carb diet over the last two weeks, I've gained a 3+1/2 lbs of muscle while losing 7 lbs of fat. Run the numbers yourself: 227 lbs at 22% body fat = 177 lbs of lean mass; 220 at 18% = 180.4 lbs of lean mass.

I don't see any reason why I should expect to lose a lot of muscle while dieting down to 198. Maybe your experience is that you can't diet down from a high body fat and not lose muscle, but you can't say for certain that will be the case for me. Especially considering that I've never tried to diet. As another member pointed out, some people gain muscle while dieting. Plus, what if I run a cycle while I cut? No one's going to lose muscle on 500 mg test./week even at below-maintenance caloric intake.

I agree about being leaner off-season though. Interval training is going to be a 3-times-a-week thing for the rest of my life (and more while dieting).

After getting the dunk tank done, I really believe most people are waaaay higher body fat than they realize. Two IFBB pros in my area guessed I was 14 - 16%.

 

[abolish the weak]

#1- Fa Shesus is right, the guys who are leaner off season seem to always come in harder, and I think it's because the extremes they have to go through to lose bodyfat in a given 12-15 weeks are not as crazy as the guy trying to go from fat to shredded in that same given time frame. You seem to retain more muscle.

#2- Light heavies IMO is usually the hardest class at most shows. They come in straight DICED. Yes, most of the ones i know are guys who should be heavies but go into light heavies to destroy the competition. When your 6 weeks out you should think that you cannot get anymore ripped than you already are. From that point keep shredding!!! Dont be like me, I walked out of here back in 06' thinking I had the show in the bag as a light heavy, I came down from 250 at around 15% bodyfat, and still got my ass handed to me. My advice to you is to bring it down slower, diet for 20 wks and take it down slower at first, this way you wont lose too much muscle, and you'll come in harder. If your over 15% bodyfat, 12 wks for most people just is not enough

 

[Fa Seeshus]

hmm just read the whole post and saw the dunk tank thing... i had assumed your 18% was a caliper measurement.


the reason i said that your contest level of LBM is gonna be lower than your off -season is because things are not so simple as having either muscle or fat...

think of a marbled steak. not all the fat is outside the muscle. one of the ways that drugs like deca and anadrol work is through increasing intramuscular fat. add to this the intramuscular water from AAS, creatine and topped of glycogen, and you get your offseason reading of LBM. when you diet you will lose alot of the intramuscular fat. add in your water management strategies, and you will most likely get a lower contest day LBM than your offseason... even if you did everything right.

that being said, i do think that the dunk tank gives a much more accurate baseline, as it will pick up the intra-muscular and visceral fat (which the calipers do not).

to give you an idea on the numbers, i'll give you my stats. i am 5'6", compete at the top of middleweight and am now offseason at 205lbs, and currently caliper at 7.5% bodyfat. if you run the equations i am actually carrying 190lbs of lean mass. for a show i will diet down to a total bodyweight of about 183, and then drop some water. i actually look better without overly carbing up, so i don't even really factor that into the stage weight goal of around 176.

things are so much more complicated than just weight or LBM though.... i have done light heavy, but my legs were not big enough for the class. once i have them at the size i want, i will move up again. for now i would rather come in smaller than my potential, and have everything flow right.

there is no scale on stage. it is how you look.

 

[eroc613]

More than likely 176

Your going to lose some muscle, unless you know all the tricks. And if you don't come in super lean at that height/weight, the judges will overlook you. You don't have enough mass to try to look "Big & full". But you can come in super lean and get more of a nod.
So at 180 lbs lean body weight, you should be able to get to 176lbs., (168lbs lean body mass) And don't won't about the muscle loss, it will come right back within weeks.

When you truely get to the "big boys" classes you will be able to adjust things with more mass on your frame.