Confused with IGF

[Wannaberipped2]

I've been reading and reading about IGF.

If you were to use IGF whilst cutting, in the hope it will maintain Muscle mass.

I can understand that LR3 goes systematically, so it will flow around the body because of the half life, so that should preserve muscle and stop going catabolic.

Now with the Des, as it's site specific, how does it stop you going catabolic and stops muscle melting away?

If you only pin Biceps, triceps and Chest, what happens to other muscle groups?

And if you have to wait a week to pin chest again, how it the muscle maintained between jabs?


Please advise.

 

[rock75]

I've been reading and reading about IGF.

If you were to use IGF whilst cutting, in the hope it will maintain Muscle mass.

I can understand that LR3 goes systematically, so it will flow around the body because of the half life, so that should preserve muscle and stop going catabolic.

Now with the Des, as it's site specific, how does it stop you going catabolic and stops muscle melting away?

If you only pin Biceps, triceps and Chest, what happens to other muscle groups?

And if you have to wait a week to pin chest again, how it the muscle maintained between jabs?


Please advise.

are you going to be researching LR3 or Des; I assume lr3 as that was your comment but just want to clarify your questions for more knowledgable peeps to answer...

as far as going systemic; i blv both have the ability to do so but as you mentioned LR3 has a greater probability cause of its half life vs Des; that said this is the reasoning behind Polumbo's thought of using micro doses in the muscle trained post w/o - raises the probability of most, if not all, of the IGF being utilized in the muscle rather than going systemic. as for the efficacy of either I can't comment - you will have to continue as you are doing and research and choose which protocol you want to follow. I've been recommended to pin my monkey DES pre bi-lat with a 2-4 hour lapse than MGF post...we'll see how my monkey does

I found this informative; hope it helps...MGF Profile [Archive] - Anabolex Forums (if not allowed please delete and SORRY) only thing has me scratching my head is his timing recommendation...with MGF being such a short half life 20-30 mins I don't understand the need for alternating admin days....thus what I was recommended of MGF prewo 3-4 hr lapse than IGF-Des...

NOW... good luck!!

 

[Wannaberipped2]

That’s for your response, I was leaning towards researching with Des, as I have read great reviews. But when I read and think about it more, it appears to be more site specific, and the half life is very short. I don’t have any major lagging muscles, so not really bothered about that. I mainly wait to maintain muscle and prevent catabolism whilst doing cardio/low carb diet.

Then theres CJC/GHRP that may be better for this?

 

[rock75]

IMO i think you are being overly paranoid about going catabolic; which happens on a daily basis to some degree. I've been reading about "leangains" which I think you would find interesting as well...

 

[Wannaberipped2]

Can any one explain how des would prevent muscle loss in muscle groups that are not injected?

I.e if i was only injecting triceps, biceps and chest. Would i have muscle wastage in shoulders, back, traps and legs?

Or does it help maintain the lot? Or... Is it best to inject every muscle worked on the day (micro dosing)?

 

[bignripped]

I've been reading and reading about IGF.

If you were to use IGF whilst cutting, in the hope it will maintain Muscle mass.

I can understand that LR3 goes systematically, so it will flow around the body because of the half life, so that should preserve muscle and stop going catabolic.

Now with the Des, as it's site specific, how does it stop you going catabolic and stops muscle melting away?

If you only pin Biceps, triceps and Chest, what happens to other muscle groups?

And if you have to wait a week to pin chest again, how it the muscle maintained between jabs?


Please advise.

google: igf lr3 pct

on this forum and on others, people talk about igf lr3 causing great retention of gains during pct. so i would say its very anti catabolic.

 

[Wannaberipped2]

Thanks for the reply,

I can understand why lr3 is anti catabolic because of the halflife and cause it runs systematically, but... I like what i read about DES, but cant get my head around how it would stop muscles not pinned going catabolic.

 

[joedel]

dude heres an idea,
Run a really low dose of lr3 say 10 or 20 mcg per day in the am.

Then if on the off cycle you wana work on some sight growth, throw in 50mcg of des bilaterally pre or post workout

 

[joedel]

its my plan or pct

 

[el bruto]

I just asked a question similar to yours and this is one reply I got:


DES (1-3) IGF-1 (NOT THE SAME AS IGF-1)
Most athletes have heard of IGF-1 (insulin like growth factor-1) and the amazing anabolic effects it has been reported to have upon Protein based tissue such as muscle. Des (1-3) IGF-1 is over 10 times (1000%) more anabolic than IGF-1. Now that is amazing!!
IGF-1 is actually produced from both insulin and growth hormone in the Liver and other tissues. IGF-1 is made up of 70 amino acids in a chain. Well, when a clever chemist removes the last 3 amino acids in the IGF-1 chain (the N-terminal tri-peptide) it becomes Des (1-3) IGF-1 and 1000% plus more anabolic. Why? IGF-1 circulates through our blood stream and tissue 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Unfortunately, most of the IGF-1 is inactive because it is bound by another Protein called (get this) IGF-1 Binding Protein-3, or IGF-1-BP-3 for short. Since bound hormones can not fit into and trigger a receptor-site, the majority of circulating and muscle IGF-1 can not trigger an anabolic stimulus. Like tons of cellulite in a o movie (who watches those?) there is little good stuff happening. However, when IGF-1 is altered and becomes Des (1-3) IGF-1 the binding Protein IGF-1-BP-3 can not bind to it and it is totally active. Another reason Des (1-3) IGF-1 is so potent is its unique ability to fit into lactic acid altered IGF-1 receptor sites. (YUP) When we train we burn carbohydrates as a fuel to make cellular ATP. When cells switch to this ATP pathway, the by-product is Lactic Acid. This is of course the cause of most of the burn we feel during intense or higher rep sets. Well, the lactic acid build-up is called acidosis, and it destroys the shape of some receptor-sites for period of time. Therefore some anabolic/anti-catabolic hormones have difficulty merging with their respective receptor- site and triggering a response (such as even unbound IGF-1). Not so with Des (1-3) IGF- 1, the super growth factor. It fits into the IGF-1 receptor-site even after acidosis. Des (1- 3) IGF-1 is unbound, over 10 times more potent than IGF-1, and it picks receptor-site locks. Too bad it has only a few minute active-life.
Did you know that our body's make Des (1-3) IGF-1 naturally? Most un-informed individuals claim other wise, but it is true. When an athlete trains lactic acid builds up in muscle tissue. As we know, there is always IGF-1 / GH present in the blood stream and tissues (including muscle) from prior work-outs and other metabolic factors. That lactic acid burn triggers IGF-1/GH secretion from both prior and present work-outs. Unfortunately, lactic acid destroys some of the IGF-1 present in muscles being trained. But wait, this is good too!
Lactic acid also cuts (truncates) the last 3 amino acids off the 70 amino acid chain of "some" of the surviving IGF-1 and creates Des (I-3) IGF-1. So acidosis increases GH/IGF-1 production in the Liver, "unbinds" IGF-1 locally in the muscle being trained (burned), destroys some of the IGF-1, and converts some IGF-1 into Des (I-3) IGF-1. Huh, good deal. And the synthetic form of this super anabolic stuff is beginning to show up on the black market more frequently.


The Protein binds less well to IGF-binding proteins and is generally approximately 10-fold more potent than IGF-1 at stimulating hypertrophy and proliferation of cultured cells. REFERENCES: Ballard FJ Des(1-3)IGF-I: a truncated form of insulin-like growth factor-I. International Journal of Biochemistry and Cell Biology 28(10): 1085-1087 (1996)

From what I have found, DES does not stay in the body for long periods of time like lr3 and may be better used in combination with mgf.