Conseco Is a douchebag

[BrooklynJuice]

I live in nyc and I know alot of people will care. Steroids do not belong in baseball. All these players now have tainted records. Do not tell me sauce doesnt let you hit homeruns. 1st a baseball season is very long and all that travel takes a toll. Enhanced recovery can be very rewarding. If bat speed is only a fraction of a second that is HUGE. If you were to plot all pre-steroid era baseball playing careers in almost everyone a player excels to a point, maintain, then gradually declines. The plateau usually occurs earlt to mid 30's. You got guys now doubling there homerun records as 15yr veterans. Any baseball fan that has any concern of the integrity cares if any player is sauced. Not only from a purist point of view, think of the ripple effect. If there was a bet in Vegas, I would put the mortgage on a big rise in steroid use in high school sports. Now guess what will be the scapegoat if say Joey Highschool overdoses on coke one night and is a known juicehead off course juice. Which in turns gets even more media attention ---> public outcry, stricter controls and harsher penalties. I hope Im wrong but these guys are fucking it up for everyone.

 

[Jrflex10er]

If giambi hits .300 with 40 homers and the yankees win the world series i will put money on it that they support him and cheer him. If he hits like he has been I'll put money on it that he won't be a yankee next year because they will booooooooooooooo him right out of the bronx and I will even feel sorry for him then for all the Reticule he'll take. You are right though....for the players that aren't taking anything it ruins it for them. BrooklynJuice I have a question? Why do baseball players get all the hype when football players are about 10x's bigger and even look like they use the shit? This is mind boggling to me.....




By the way the YANKS WILL WIN THE WORLD SERIES NEXT YEAR!! I have the 16 game package deal this year!! haha I couldnt afford the 81 game home package which was sold out and 7200 dollar.

 

[gooey]

I see your point but pure....

I live in nyc and I know alot of people will care. Steroids do not belong in baseball. All these players now have tainted records. Do not tell me sauce doesnt let you hit homeruns. 1st a baseball season is very long and all that travel takes a toll. Enhanced recovery can be very rewarding. If bat speed is only a fraction of a second that is HUGE. If you were to plot all pre-steroid era baseball playing careers in almost everyone a player excels to a point, maintain, then gradually declines. The plateau usually occurs earlt to mid 30's. You got guys now doubling there homerun records as 15yr veterans. Any baseball fan that has any concern of the integrity cares if any player is sauced. Not only from a purist point of view, think of the ripple effect. If there was a bet in Vegas, I would put the mortgage on a big rise in steroid use in high school sports. Now guess what will be the scapegoat if say Joey Highschool overdoses on coke one night and is a known juicehead off course juice. Which in turns gets even more media attention ---> public outcry, stricter controls and harsher penalties. I hope Im wrong but these guys are fucking it up for everyone.

Ty Cobb renowned racist, Darryl Strawberry and others numerous relations to cocaine, Several players also womenizers.... pure, people want pure baseball? Or so u mean everything else is ok cept performance enhancing hormones. I dont understand why one is ok, but the other is not, why it is ok to be these other very negative things in society yet using performance enhancing drugs is the top dog evil? Its ok if u beat your wife but u used drugs to hit more homeruns.... man thats horrible u cheater. I agree that its obivous there is a correlation with AAS and muscle growth and power which its used the a baseball players advantage while batting spec if they are the homerun hitter. But is that the only variable, everything else is thrown out, How many people have juiced in the MLB and how many have 60+ homeruns? There has to be other variables for this to happen then to point that finger at one and one only variable. As long as there is competition and a society that favors a winner or the "American Dream" there will be new ways to be competitive who will make that extra step to succeed, who will go the distance to win.
gooey

 

[BrooklynJuice]

Baseball is over a century old. Fans past, present, future have always agrued who was the best at what and heavily, if not entirely, relied on stats to back there claims up. Steroid users have a clear advantage. So what was a bigger accomplishment Mantle's 61 clean or Bond's 70 sauced? Cant be answered.

As why Baseball gets a closer looks besides the point above has to do with the art of the game. Football is a very very team game. Every play requires 11 players all doing there role. Also football plays much less games. Im sure juicing help a football player but make less of an impact like a baseball player does. Most sports people would agree that hitting a baseball is the hardest thing to do in pro-sports. If you can hit the ball 3 outta 10 times you are a great hitter, do it 4 you are legendary. I think juicing not only give contact more power but speeds up the bat and that can make a huge difference.

 

[BrooklynJuice]

I agree that its obivous there is a correlation with AAS and muscle growth and power which its used the a baseball players advantage while batting spec if they are the homerun hitter. But is that the only variable, everything else is thrown out, How many people have juiced in the MLB and how many have 60+ homeruns?

I disagree. Like I said a baseball season is very long. Having super-natural recovering abilities can have tremendous impact on your game. Its just not power on contact. That bat becomes seemingly lighter and you will become able to swing it slightly faster. This means a whole lot to any hitter. The chance to pick up a read, on a type of pitch, ie a late sing on a fastball that once once landed in the cacthers mitt now finds its way to left field.

How many veterans have prolonged there career because of AAS? How many had career years later in their career. Not only that, what pitcher wouldnt mind putting on 2-3mhp on their fastball?

I hate the spotlight steroids get however the players that decided to bring this to the baseball made the wrong decision IMO. Like I said their is a ripple effect. I would like any father to chime in and would like to know what if they found out their 16 year old kid doing test and dbol?

 

[gooey]

I agree that....

I disagree. Like I said a baseball season is very long. Having super-natural recovering abilities can have tremendous impact on your game. Its just not power on contact. That bat becomes seemingly lighter and you will become able to swing it slightly faster. This means a whole lot to any hitter. The chance to pick up a read, on a type of pitch, ie a late sing on a fastball that once once landed in the cacthers mitt now finds its way to left field.

How many veterans have prolonged there career because of AAS? How many had career years later in their career. Not only that, what pitcher wouldnt mind putting on 2-3mhp on their fastball?

I hate the spotlight steroids get however the players that decided to bring this to the baseball made the wrong decision IMO. Like I said their is a ripple effect. I would like any father to chime in and would like to know what if they found out their 16 year old kid doing test and dbol?

the baseball season is a very long season indeed and very wearing, but I dont think u can make a comparison to the level of impact football, wrestling, rugby for that matter. If u want to talk about injuries and recovery time these sports are more injury ridden then the latter. I am not saying that AAS does not make a player better and I also agree that hitting a 90 +mph ball with a round bat is probabaly the hardest thing to do, but once again like I said b4 others have juiced, why did they not hit 73 homeruns, or 60 for that matter. Ripple effect yes but why is it more pronounced in baseball, it happens in most sports, cept I dont know bout the NBA but it happens, but before a dad can make that accusation about there son using an anabolic steroid I would first make the comparison to other things that they could be doing illegal, I dont codone them and I know that AAS are illegal, but if I knew my son was using those in comparison to cocaine, marijuana, and heroin, there is no comparison, there is a huge difference between performance enhancing drugs and rec drugs. Alcoholic or state wrestling champ. IN jail for murder or arrested for AAS use and selling no comparison in my opinion. My arument mainly once again like I have stated numeorus times in other threads, before u start saying that AAS are the most evil thing in sports like baseball one should look deeper into the cultural need's and why's. Dont ok one evil and denounce another, test and rid all. or play ball
gooey

 

[btmagnus]

Have you guys read what the new steroid policy is and the penalties for violations?
There will still probably be guys that use steroids. The policy is a joke!

 

[BrooklynJuice]

I was trying to post without bias. Off corse if coke and other rec drugs into the mix AAS doesnt look so bad. Im also not lookin at the guy who beats his wife because today that in not the norm. But from what I gather saying half of all baseball players use steroids I think is a fair statement.

 

[gooey]

yea I agree....

hard not too give opinions and not have emotion and bias unfortunately alot of times that comes out I like to be fair and not be contradictive as best as I can be, that doesnt always work cause I am human but I try. My argument was to justify sports as a whole and instead of highlighting some a negative aspect about it, I try to understand why these aspects are there. Sports are a window to pear into our culture and world alone. U can see negative aspects of sport that derive from our culture. I people want baseball to be pure that is fine then clean the sport up top to bottom not just a part. U want the Olympics to be drug free fine then spend the $ and test every athlete. In a world of capitalism and winner takes all or most athletes look for many ways to win through training to be the best that they can be. Numerous things are manipulated to win, why is it that one form always gets the wrap, clothing, nutrition, sporting gear is all deemed "natural" but an exogenous hormone or supplement that manipulates it are not. IMO I believe if they want to clean the slate on sports they need to make everything the same for all and reduce numerous variables instead of just one. But that would make sports less dramatic and worth less money. Its a double edged sword people want to see all highlights and inhuman efforts but dont want to know that the athlete took steps outside of what is "socially acceptable" to get there. Please dont be offended just my biased, opinion and my little brain neuron firing once in a day
gooey

 

[BrooklynJuice]

Im not offened at all, no reason to be.

I say have an all juice league but you gotta make it interesting. Like moats around the base with alligators or sum shit

 

[brandonjpowell]

Conseco is laughing all the way to the bank... **broken link removed**

 

[gooey]

not to worry

he will get this all back to him in some way, it always happens that way, but none the less it will come to him in some form, so get rich now stab people in the back, and have ur fun but there will be a time when these current decsions come back to haunt him. It always pays to be mostly considerate cause life has a funny way of gettin back at u when u least expect it
gooey

 

[Kane]

my .02 cents

The one thing Canseco has said that I can respect is his statement about wanting to be the best ball player possible and doing whatever it took to try to achieve that goal... People love to see guys hit 500 ft homeruns or break a record in any sport be it baseball, track or whatever. These guys get paid for their performance.

Society has created this mess by treating athletes as heroes and giving them million dollar contracts. How many athletes do you think would use performance enhancing drugs if the reward wasn't so high? There would probably still be a few but I believe most would stop.

As Gooey already mentioned there have been far worse things that players have done in the past but are considered ok. Some say these ball players cheated because players in the past didn't use drugs. They didn't train or eat the way players do now either so would that be considered cheating as well? I think it's funny that they call these players cheaters when baseball has players in the Hall of Fame that cheated (Gaylord Perry, Nolan Ryan).

 

[gooey]

exactly my friend...

The one thing Canseco has said that I can respect is his statement about wanting to be the best ball player possible and doing whatever it took to try to achieve that goal... People love to see guys hit 500 ft homeruns or break a record in any sport be it baseball, track or whatever. These guys get paid for their performance.

Society has created this mess by treating athletes as heroes and giving them million dollar contracts. How many athletes do you think would use performance enhancing drugs if the reward wasn't so high? There would probably still be a few but I believe most would stop.

As Gooey already mentioned there have been far worse things that players have done in the past but are considered ok. Some say these ball players cheated because players in the past didn't use drugs. They didn't train or eat the way players do now either so would that be considered cheating as well? I think it's funny that they call these players cheaters when baseball has players in the Hall of Fame that cheated (Gaylord Perry, Nolan Ryan).

hammer on nails head. If players back in the era of Maris and Ruth had the opportunity to do so, so would of they if it were available. No one talks about Tim Raines sliding into 2nd base on his stomach cause he didnt want to break the cocaine vials in his back pocket. And honestly what would happen if darryl strawberry got out of prison and wrote a book on how many players used cocaine or marijuana, or he saw, or what not. Even if he mentioned some high profile, popular player I am curious if it would get the same publicity. Or would society not care bcus those recreational drugs are more "socially acceptable" it just seems like a contradiciton to me in itself. One evil is better then the other. But then again gues u can blame media, look at Michael Irvin, caught with cocaine/cheating on his wife and now a ESPN football analyst, just think what would happen if he like Romanowski was caught with some AAS, I think there would have been a different ending in Mr. Irvin's life.
gooey

 

[thejuggernaut]

You know it's like what do these people expect. Think of how many juicers would be in the Olympics if they didn't test....I guess that doesn't make much sense since 70% of Olympians juice anyway, but you know what I mean...lol. I don't like how Canseco just blows the whistle on the whole thing because he's pissed off, where's the loyalty. What a cry baby. I don't like when people concentrate on what other people are doing instead of worrying about themselves. Also, it's strange how society views recreational drugs from AAS. If a movie star etc. gets caught with cocaine, society feels sorry for them, like they are the vicitm ( I fell victim to cocaine...). When it's steroids people look at it from the opposite perspective like , those are bad and you're a cheater, or something. It's no new concept that society has some fu**** up views on certain issues.
The Juggernaut

 

[brandonjpowell]

What makes him such an ass..

What makes Conseco such an ass is the fact that he promoted gear use when he played. He never thought it was cheating until he figured out a way to make money off of changing his mind about steroid abuse. He's the lowest form of life because he cares for nobody but himself.

As far as I am concerned, baseball should strip him of all of his records and ban him from baseball because he admitted to using a banned substance while playing. I mean come on, baseball is going after Bonds for his "possible" roid use, but is doing nothing to Conseco?

 

[C_Horse]

Its gotta be the smart drugs

I agree with BJ. Yes, Canseco is an ass for violating trust. But, in terms of the sport, anyone who thinks that appropriately using steroids doesn't provide a performance boost in most athletic endeavors is living in the 50's (they don't make you bigger either right?). Did you guys ever watch the Olympics in the 70's for gods sake?

With respect to the subject of rec drugs - I don't see the relevence. People carry about performance enhancing drugs in sports precisely because they enhance performance. That's not a characteristic of rec drugs. For an example, look at the case of Kamineti (sp) - that guy made a bigger news splash when he said he used steroids in baseball than when he killed himself with crack. CH

 

[Homer]

Freakin rat bastard...he is no better then Henry Hill when he ratted out John Gotti...it may not be a life style we may want or like but they choose it and with that comes some form of loyality and respect for each other.....I hope he egts what is right and just to him.....

I believe it was Sammy "the Bull" Gravano that brought down Gotti not Henry Hill.

 

[gooey]

R u saying that rec drugs cannot be performance enhancing?

I agree with BJ. Yes, Canseco is an ass for violating trust. But, in terms of the sport, anyone who thinks that appropriately using steroids doesn't provide a performance boost in most athletic endeavors is living in the 50's (they don't make you bigger either right?). Did you guys ever watch the Olympics in the 70's for gods sake?

With respect to the subject of rec drugs - I don't see the relevence. People carry about performance enhancing drugs in sports precisely because they enhance performance. That's not a characteristic of rec drugs. For an example, look at the case of Kamineti (sp) - that guy made a bigger news splash when he said he used steroids in baseball than when he killed himself with crack. CH

LT made it very clear that he was hopped on cocaine b4 many games. u dont think that a CNS stimulant like cocaine wouldnt be performance enhancing? I dont disagree with that fact that AAS have contributed to sports greatly, but to say that rec drugs do not have an influence. I disagree there is much relevance. Brett Farve and his pain killers, were those legal, how about the addiction to those, lets take those MVP's away, what about Mark Stepnowski and his marijuana to relax and and deal with pain during season and after games? How are these not performance enhancing? And with Caminiti was it a bigger deal for the media to report his crack usage or how steroids affected his baseball career, the media reports what people want to here. Steroids are obviously a bigger deal then right now then his recreational drug life, how and what people use to supplement there athletic goals is more important then one's life? Hmmmm? That just supports my whole argument. Why is it a bigger deal to report about Ken's baseball career, and what he used then it is to report the drug that was a variabe in his life ending. What drug has become more acceptable in social culture, "Ken Caminiti died of crack/cocaine addiction, ah well, what he used steroids and was an all star holy shit, what a cheater, what a horrible thing." A drug is a drug, and just because a drug does not have correlation with muscle growth and strength does not mean that is does not have some sort of performance enhancing properties or characeristics.

gooey

 

[gooey]

IOC banned list

Drugs taken as so-called "performance aids" include:

1. Stimulants that make you alert, "high" and wakeful
2. Anabolic steroids, that build up body muscle
3. Hormonal growth-promoters, that also encourage development of body tissues
4. Strong painkillers, most of which are illegal, because they are powerful and addictive
5. Beta-blockers (a type of heart drug), that calm and steady a player in a sport that needs careful coordination
6. Diuretics, that help dilute urine or reduce weight by removing water from the body.

Many drugs are banned from various sports by the International Olympic Committee (IOC) and by the various controlling organizations for each sport in different countries.



ICO banned drugs

The International Olympic Committee (IOC) has strict rules on which drugs cannot be used by competitors. (Rarely there may be a medical reason for a competitor taking such a drug). The list includes:

All stimulants, including caffeine in high quantities, cocaine and amphetamines
Narcotic analgesics (painkillers) such as heroin, morphine, pethidine and codeine
Anabolic steroids, testosterone and growth hormones
Beta-blockers and diuretics
Blood doping techniques

The IOC has also banned all "pharmacological, physical and chemical manipulations" from the 1988 Olympic Games in Seoul and onward. This means it can disqualify people who try to cheat the testing system by taking a drug that is not banned, in order to disguise the presence of one that is banned.

The above information was taken from the book Understanding Drugs: Drugs, Steroids and Sports, Aladdin Books Ltd. (1988) by Janet Mohun.



and heres a site for more and **broken link removed**