Covid-19 Experience

EWRECK · Mar 31, 2020

nidnoy said:
If that is true, even if it is just this pseudo lockdown of only essential business, that is going to be a problem!

Well the news is reporting it which doesn’t mean shit IMO. It’s like everyone turned into the National Enquirer or Star.

EWRECK · Mar 31, 2020

Says governor ordered statewide lockdown of non essential business and stay at home order until 6/10. Why not 6/12?

get it in ya · Mar 31, 2020

maldorf said:
No, its another guy. I was wondering about the My Pillow guy and figured he would help. He has quite a story to tell. He was a drug addict at one time and really down in the ditch. He dug his way out and now really understands how lucky he is and wants to help out others.

such a great man

muscle96ss · Mar 31, 2020

nidnoy said:
If that is true, even if it is just this pseudo lockdown of only essential business, that is going to be a problem!

Yep, its true, Governor Northam did in fact do that. It is basically the same as it is now for most of the country; only essential business allowed. I really can't imagine being if others follow being stuck here with nothing to do and no income for the next few months. I am sure there are a ton of others in the same boat.

Mike Arnold · Mar 31, 2020

qbkilla said:
One of the first cases of the media exaggerating on the Fox News web site. CBS had to apologize they showed an overcrowded hospital in Italy and said it was New York city, got busted.

I have a feeling we will see more of this. One thing we can all agree im sure, its full speed ahead for the media to make this seem as bad as possible like we are all going to die.

They do this kind of lying shit chronically, but you better stop talking about stuff like this...or some people will start yelling "consiracy theoory"!

A few months back, when our military pulled out of Syria, the Leftist new stations aired what appeared to be a massive military onslaught against Syria, while claiming that the people Trump "abandoned" were being masacred in droves.

A short time later Fox investigated the matter and found that the footage they were showing (and claiming it was a massive military invasion) not only WASN'T a Syrian military invasion, but was actually a gun-military show being conducted (for entertainment purposes) over here in the U.S.! Fox replayed the same exact footage, while confirming the origin of the film with those who put on the show. After that, MSNBC, CNN, etc., claimed it was an "accident". LOL. An accident? How does a major media news corporation "accidentally" confuse a war tape (that they claimed came from one of their reporters) with a U.S.-military gun show? More so, how does a major news agency "accidentaly" come to believe that one of their own investigative reporters was sent into the feild (when he was never sent), recorded a tape (that he never recorded) and then provided them with a tape (that never existed)?

The answer--they don't. It is just one example of the many, MANY lies were told (either directly or by omission) every single day by our state-sponsored mainstream media.

Yet...some of the people here still think thatour news media is still true, independent, investigative journalism. Hilarious.

muscle96ss · Mar 31, 2020

I guess the governor here in AZ announced a few hours ago that schools are for closed the rest of the school year and a "stay at home" order until 4/30; which is basically an extension of what we have been doing. My wife just got home from the grocery store and she said that everybody is freaking out again and clearing out all the aisles again.

maldorf · Mar 31, 2020

Mike Arnold said:
They do this kind of lying shit chronically, but you better stop talking about stuff like this...or some people will start yelling "consiracy theoory"!

A few months back, when our military pulled out of Syria, the Leftist new stations aired what appeared to be a massive military onslaught against Syria, while claiming that the people Trump "abandoned" were being masacred in droves.

A short time later Fox investigated the matter and found that the footage they were showing (and claiming it was a massive military invasion) not only WASN'T a Syrian military invasion, but was actually a gun-military show being conducted (for entertainment purposes) over here in the U.S.! Fox replayed the same exact footage, while confirming the origin of the film with those who put on the show. After that, MSNBC, CNN, etc., claimed it was an "accident". LOL. An accident? How does a major media news corporation "accidentally" confuse a war tape (that they claimed came from one of their reporters) with a U.S.-military gun show? More so, how does a major news agency "accidentaly" come to believe that one of their own investigative reporters was sent into the feild (when he was never sent), recorded a tape (that he never recorded) and then provided them with a tape (that never existed)?

The answer--they don't. It is just one example of the many, MANY lies were told (either directly or by omission) every single day by our state-sponsored mainstream media.

Yet...some of the people here still think thatour news media is still true, independent, investigative journalism. Hilarious.

There are some media that I dont trust. I remember how some showed pictures of immigrant children locked up in cages and blamed it on Trump, but the pictures were taken back when Obama was president. I almost always try to back up a news source with another one if it's a big claim.

get it in ya · Mar 31, 2020

Almost all news is FAKE NEWS!!! I haven’t clicked on one link on this board in weeks that people post, I don’t believe much anymore!!

nidnoy · Mar 31, 2020

muscle96ss said:
Yep, its true, Governor Northam did in fact do that. It is basically the same as it is now for most of the country; only essential business allowed. I really can't imagine being if others follow being stuck here with nothing to do and no income for the next few months. I am sure there are a ton of others in the same boat.

then everyone’s predictions about the us being the next Italy will be true just not in the way they thought. There will be riots and looting. If I lived there I would start sending my bills to his house and emailing him daily as to when he was going to pay them. Then I would start charging him late fees and interest haha!!!

All joking aside, who knows, maybe this will be necessary but to make that statement at this stage seems premature.

Bio · Mar 31, 2020

Mike Arnold said:
They do this kind of lying shit chronically, but you better stop talking about stuff like this...or some people will start yelling "consiracy theoory"!

A few months back, when our military pulled out of Syria, the Leftist new stations aired what appeared to be a massive military onslaught against Syria, while claiming that the people Trump "abandoned" were being masacred in droves.

A short time later Fox investigated the matter and found that the footage they were showing (and claiming it was a massive military invasion) not only WASN'T a Syrian military invasion, but was actually a gun-military show being conducted (for entertainment purposes) over here in the U.S.! Fox replayed the same exact footage, while confirming the origin of the film with those who put on the show. After that, MSNBC, CNN, etc., claimed it was an "accident". LOL. An accident? How does a major media news corporation "accidentally" confuse a war tape (that they claimed came from one of their reporters) with a U.S.-military gun show? More so, how does a major news agency "accidentaly" come to believe that one of their own investigative reporters was sent into the feild (when he was never sent), recorded a tape (that he never recorded) and then provided them with a tape (that never existed)?

The answer--they don't. It is just one example of the many, MANY lies were told (either directly or by omission) every single day by our state-sponsored mainstream media.

Yet...some of the people here still think thatour news media is still true, independent, investigative journalism. Hilarious.

If you don't think Fox News has had to apologize for their share of edited/manipulated on air content then you're not being honest. They've all been caught at one time or another.

Mike, this thread is about COVID-19. If you keep going off on your tangents and conspiracy theories, it will be deleted and you will receive a temp ban. I already asked you to stop with this off topic content.

pesty4077 · Mar 31, 2020

Bio said:
Regarding Kern County, only 1,950 people were tested and 935 tests are still pending results. So 50 positive tests out of 1015. 5% of the people tested positive. If that math were to play out over the population of 900,000 it would wind up being 45,000 people testing positive. Remember, that's with 935 tests still pending and if they only tested people who were symptomatic that would also lower the actual number of positive tests. People say, what does it matter if they don't have any symptoms but it does matter because they're contagious and spreading it.

Kern County COVID-19 Stats... https://www.bakersfield.com/news/ke...cle_75e3e66e-71e4-11ea-95ed-53b720d07d92.html

I understand the way you and others are seeing it and I agree that it will get worse. How much worse? We'll see. You also have to look at the rate in which it's spreading as well as the death rate. Last Monday the US infection rate was around 70,000. One week later it's 156,931. That's 124% increase in a week AND that's people that are sick/symptomatic who are getting tested, not the ones who aren't symptomatic, contagious, and spreading it to those around them. So, the actual number would be much higher if we could test everyone. The numbers keep climbing at a pace much faster than the spread of the flu. This morning the number was 143,055 and now, 5 hours later, the updated number is the 156,931. A week ago the US death rate was 40 to 50. A week later it's just shy of 3,000. I see your numbers for the flu regarding the global annual death rate, 150 a day. What about Italy? From 6 weeks ago, with COVID-19, their death rate is 276 people a day.

On the first day of drive through testing, last Monday, in the area where I live, 26% of the people tested positive...54 out of 207 people...HUGE! That was just the drive through at the Fire Department and you had to be symptomatic with a minimum 100 degree temperature. The numbers keep increasing and we've been quarantined. Imagine if we had just kept business as usual? Do you really think the numbers would match the normal flu? We need more time to see where the numbers are and we need medication in place to at least mitigate the symptoms. Also, we don't know what the reinfection rate is yet. It's still so early and there are too many unknowns.

On a positive note, I saw that they were using the plasma of people who have already had it which created antibodies and they're transfusing that into very critically ill people. Hopefully this is successful and another weapon against this virus.

EDIT - 20 minutes later, the number is 159,184, so the infection rate is up 127% in a week.

Well, I agree with some things you are saying. Let's not forget in 2017 to 2018 season, 45 Million got the flu in America. That is about 1 out of about 7 that got the flu. Also 61,000 people died too. Saying numbers will go up, I can believe that. I seen it happen before.

Yes, on a positive note, I see we are getting closer to approving a treatment. I never doubted we would, but just how long I didn't know. We have brilliant minds here and we are much more advanced than some countries. Hopefully we will start getting good news and go back to business as usual. I try to take a positive approach to everything.

get it in ya · Mar 31, 2020

pesty4077 said:
Well, I agree with some things you are saying. Let's not forget in 2017 to 2018 season, 45 Million got the flu in America. That is about 1 out of about 7 that got the flu. Also 61,000 people died too. Saying numbers will go up, I can believe that. I seen it happen before.

Yes, on a positive note, I see we are getting closer to approving a treatment. I never doubted we would, but just how long I didn't know. We have brilliant minds here and we are much more advanced than some countries. Hopefully we will start getting good news and go back to business as usual. I try to take a positive approach to everything.

i love the positive thinking! You don’t see that here right now, I love it! To much doom and gloom right now.

hawkmoon · Mar 31, 2020

get it in ya said:
i live 5 minutes from nh, my uncle lives in nh. obviously i know your info is correct but i dont see any craziness around here. maybe she is stretching the truth, just slightly lol

She's in the Laconia area.
When we spoke last year she said they were chronically understaffed at that time. I'm sure that is a contributing factor to workload stress.
She wasn't talking about craziness per se, just being overwhelmed with work and the atmosphere. This is on top of their daily load after all.
My cuz is a fiery one, she's more worried about her peers and people not taking this seriously making their jobs harder.

I spoke to another friend who's wife is a RN in Brockton, MA.
She had a colleague test positive, but she was negative. Got cleared to go back to work.
She works with older patients and is eager to get back. Her husband is more worried than her IMO, which is natural.

qbkilla · Mar 31, 2020

I don't understand who keeps putting out the statistics on "deaths per day" or "cases per day" to air out to the general public, what is the purpose? Why don't the doctors and professionals use these numbers then summarize them. Or report every week. Its pure madness to just keep spitting out these possibly inaccurate numbers every single day and then just driving up panic more and people who don't even understand the scope of them just repeating them to everyone who will listen to justify how we are all doomed.

"Today in New York there were x many new cases y many people died, OMG!"

"Today in Italy there were x many new cases and y many people died, this is what whe have to look forward to OMG"

Do we really need to hear this every day for the next month? Sometimes it's better to keep the public in the dark for their own good or give them some numbers to obsess over and freak out a couple times a week. Even being forced to stay inside im sure people could find something more productive to do with their time then talk about the "pandemic" all day every day.

My main point, its irresponsible and serves no purpose at all to just throw these numbers to the public every day like throwing meat to hungry dogs and watching them fight over it. They say china minmized the virus and lied about the numbers, that wasn't the dumbest thing in the world based on how we see people reacting to the numbers each day. I honestly think alot of people are scared of this but get a kick out of it at the same time, like reality tv. "Ive got to wake up tommorrow and see the latest with the virus"

Its going to be the same shit every day for a month, its no longer exciting or new, get used to it get numb to it, and find a better hobby.

Tomorrow will be

1. We are all locked down
2. X new people are infected and Y died, the curve did this or that
3. Each politician is a hero and his adversary Is a bad guy who cost us lives
4. The same people will complain about being out of work, the same people will cry a fit about "someone got too close to me at Walmart, some kid dared to touch something on the shelf at Walmart the horror"

None of it is remotely interesting or worth reading. If we were able to work in a free society and go to the gym probably 90% of us wouldn't pay much attention to it, but they are locking us in our homes and forcing it down our throat.

Mike Arnold · Mar 31, 2020

Bio said:
If you don't think Fox News has had to apologize for their share of edited/manipulated on air content then you're not being honest. They've all been caught at one time or another.

Mike, this thread is about COVID-19. If you keep going off on your tangents and conspiracy theories, it will be deleted and you will receive a temp ban. I already asked you to stop with this off topic content.

OK, so I respond to another member's post about fake news videos and I get threatend with a temp ban? Please, apply the rules equally to everyone...or to no one at all (even though I wasn't aware that talking about a fake new vid was against the rules here). Or, is it only other people that are allowed to bring up such topics, assuing they agree with your point of view?

Furthermore, PLEASE tell me what is conspiratorial about me saying that CNN posted a false video, which they themselves later admitted to? Of course, you won't..because that's not conspiratorial and you know that. It's called a FACT. It appears that some here need to learn what the word conspiracy actually means. Confirmable FACTS is not conspiratorial. Saying CNN posted a fake vid, which they admitted to, is NOT conspiratorial. You just don't like whe I am saying because you dont hold the same position. Basically, you are threatening me while allowing everyone else to talk about the same kind of stuff (the exact same stuff in this case, as the member I responded to posted about a fake news vid). Being that you're a Mod, I suppose you have the power to make rules on the spot, which is fine with me. All I ask is that you keep the same rules for everyone, which is NOT occuring here...or in the other threads. If you are going to ban me for defending myself here, please get it over with, but please ask Big A to refund my money for the 2 sponsorships I paid for this month...or at least put them on hold until I'm allowed to advertise again. I'm a damn good, long-standing member on this board who has contributed a lot of info to this board over the years. So, I think I'm owed at least that.

As for FOX news, of course they lie. Why would you assume that I think FOX is some harbinger of truth just because I didn't say anything negatuve about them in this instance? I metioned MSNBC and CNN simply because they were the ones who put out the fake vid...and it was a direct response to another member's post who was specifically talking about fake vids. While I absolutely believe that CNN, MSNBC, etc., lies MORE often than FOX (from what I can ee), all news stations lie frequenly. So, please don't assume anything about what I believe. If you are unsure, ASK.

As the days go by, if I'm not banned for this post, I think it is important for you to clearly define what kind of talk is and is not acceptable when it comes to COVID-19, as MANY of the posts surrounding COVID-19 are political in nature. Yet, I haven't seen any other members being publicly threatened for their political posts (and there are dozens, if not 100+). Or, is it only the things you deem "conspiratorial" (even when they're confirmably factual) that are against the rules now, while political talk in general is OK? Don't think I'm being a smart-ass in asking this question, eiher. I have a right to ask...because there have been dozens, if not 100's of poliiucal posts over the last few weeks...yet I haven't seen anyone get publicly threatened with a ban. So, being that is it virtually impossible to address many of the topics connected to COVID-19 without delving ito politics (ex. "the governor of Florida closed off interstate travel to help curb the spread of the virus", etc.), what exactly isn't OK now? Is it only the things you deem to be conspiratoial? If so, I ask that you please have that added to the rule list. If not, then, out of sheer fairness, I would expect you to give a warning to anyone posting politcal statements. Or, once again, does it just apply to me? just consiracpy.

Bio, it is apparent that you have singled me out (despite all the political talk going on in numerous threads) because you diagree with my position on things, as evidenced by the fact that you "liked" some extremely offensive and insulting posts made towards me in the last few days, as they pertain to my views on things. Given your respose to those comments, you don't seem to have a problem endorsing these political conversations by choosing to affirm offensive comments, yet you have a big problem with my posts...even thoigh, in this case, I was only responding (in direct context) to another member's post. That, I believe, is the only (or main) reason I have been singled out, despote tons of politcal posts made by other members.

I don't expect you to answer any of this. Perhaps you will respond and then lock the thread...or maybe just delete my post...or maybe respond and then immedately ban me. Who knows, but regardless of whether you admit it or not, I don't think I am being treated very fairly here...especially in this case, guven the fact that I was only responding (in direct context) to another member's post...and posted no conspiracy theories here. I've been nothing but respectful to you my entire time on this board, so I am disappointed.

Note: If you ban me, please have Big A shoot me a brief email letting me know when my ban will be lifted, so I can make my sponsor payments before coming back on...or at least place them on hold unti you decide I am no longer harming the board.

Mike Arnold · Mar 31, 2020

pesty4077 said:
Well, I agree with some things you are saying. Let's not forget in 2017 to 2018 season, 45 Million got the flu in America. That is about 1 out of about 7 that got the flu. Also 61,000 people died too. Saying numbers will go up, I can believe that. I seen it happen before.

Yes, on a positive note, I see we are getting closer to approving a treatment. I never doubted we would, but just how long I didn't know. We have brilliant minds here and we are much more advanced than some countries. Hopefully we will start getting good news and go back to business as usual. I try to take a positive approach to everything.

I really, REALLY hope they approve some of these meds and distribute them nationwide very quickly. That would be the best news I've heard all year.

EWRECK · Mar 31, 2020

qbkilla said:
I don't understand who keeps putting out the statistics on "deaths per day" or "cases per day" to air out to the general public, what is the purpose? Why don't the doctors and professionals use these numbers then summarize them. Or report every week. Its pure madness to just keep spitting out these possibly inaccurate numbers every single day and then just driving up panic more and people who don't even understand the scope of them just repeating them to everyone who will listen to justify how we are all doomed.

"Today in New York there were x many new cases y many people died, OMG!"

"Today in Italy there were x many new cases and y many people died, this is what whe have to look forward to OMG"

Do we really need to hear this every day for the next month? Sometimes it's better to keep the public in the dark for their own good or give them some numbers to obsess over and freak out a couple times a week. Even being forced to stay inside im sure people could find something more productive to do with their time then talk about the "pandemic" all day every day.

My main point, its irresponsible and serves no purpose at all to just throw these numbers to the public every day like throwing meat to hungry dogs and watching them fight over it. They say china minmized the virus and lied about the numbers, that wasn't the dumbest thing in the world based on how we see people reacting to the numbers each day. I honestly think alot of people are scared of this but get a kick out of it at the same time, like reality tv. "Ive got to wake up tommorrow and see the latest with the virus"

Its going to be the same shit every day for a month, its no longer exciting or new, get used to it get numb to it, and find a better hobby.

Tomorrow will be

1. We are all locked down
2. X new people are infected and Y died, the curve did this or that
3. Each politician is a hero and his adversary Is a bad guy who cost us lives
4. The same people will complain about being out of work, the same people will cry a fit about "someone got too close to me at Walmart, some kid dared to touch something on the shelf at Walmart the horror"

None of it is remotely interesting or worth reading. If we were able to work in a free society and go to the gym probably 90% of us wouldn't pay much attention to it, but they are locking us in our homes and forcing it down our throat.

It is ridiculous. The Weather Channel app has a daily death toll/infection bar now. Why? Same reason the news had daily death counts during the Iraq war. Fear Porn.

Bio · Mar 31, 2020

Mike Arnold said:
OK, so I respond to another member's post about fake news videos and I get threatend with a temp ban? Please, apply the rules equally to everyone...or to no one at all (even though I wasn't aware that talking about a fake new vid was against the rules here). Or, is it only other people that are allowed to bring up such topics, assuing they agree with your point of view?

Furthermore, PLEASE tell me what is conspiratorial about me saying that CNN posted a false video, which they themselves later admitted to? Of course, you won't..because that's not conspiratorial and you know that. It's called a FACT. It appears that some here need to learn what the word conspiracy actually means. Confirmable FACTS is not conspiratorial. Saying CNN posted a fake vid, which they admitted to, is NOT conspiratorial. You just don't like whe I am saying because you dont hold the same position. Basically, you are threatening me while allowing everyone else to talk about the same kind of stuff (the exact same stuff in this case, as the member I responded to posted about a fake news vid). Being that you're a Mod, I suppose you have the power to make rules on the spot, which is fine with me. All I ask is that you keep the same rules for everyone, which is NOT occuring here...or in the other threads. If you are going to ban me for defending myself here, please get it over with, but please ask Big A to refund my money for the 2 sponsorships I paid for this month...or at least put them on hold until I'm allowed to advertise again. I'm a damn good, long-standing member on this board who has contributed a lot of info to this board over the years. So, I think I'm owed at least that.

As for FOX news, of course they lie. Why would you assume that I think FOX is some harbinger of truth just because I didn't say anything negatuve about them in this instance? I metioned MSNBC and CNN simply because they were the ones who put out the fake vid...and it was a direct response to another member's post who was specifically talking about fake vids. While I absolutely believe that CNN, MSNBC, etc., lies MORE often than FOX (from what I can ee), all news stations lie frequenly. So, please don't assume anything about what I believe. If you are unsure, ASK.

As the days go by, if I'm not banned for this post, I think it is important for you to clearly define what kind of talk is and is not acceptable when it comes to COVID-19, as MANY of the posts surrounding COVID-19 are political in nature. Yet, I haven't seen any other members being publicly threatened for their political posts (and there are dozens, if not 100+). Or, is it only the things you deem "conspiratorial" (even when they're confirmably factual) that are against the rules now, while political talk in general is OK? Don't think I'm being a smart-ass in asking this question, eiher. I have a right to ask...because there have been dozens, if not 100's of poliiucal posts over the last few weeks...yet I haven't seen anyone get publicly threatened with a ban. So, being that is it virtually impossible to address many of the topics connected to COVID-19 without delving ito politics (ex. "the governor of Florida closed off interstate travel to help curb the spread of the virus", etc.), what exactly isn't OK now? Is it only the things you deem to be conspiratoial? If so, I ask that you please have that added to the rule list. If not, then, out of sheer fairness, I would expect you to give a warning to anyone posting politcal statements. Or, once again, does it just apply to me? just consiracpy.

Bio, it is apparent that you have singled me out (despite all the political talk going on in numerous threads) because you diagree with my position on things, as evidenced by the fact that you "liked" some extremely offensive and insulting posts made towards me in the last few days, as they pertain to my views on things. Given your respose to those comments, you don't seem to have a problem endorsing these political conversations by choosing to affirm offensive comments, yet you have a big problem with my posts...even thoigh, in this case, I was only responding (in direct context) to another member's post. That, I believe, is the only (or main) reason I have been singled out, despote tons of politcal posts made by other members.

I don't expect you to answer any of this. Perhaps you will respond and then lock the thread...or maybe just delete my post...or maybe respond and then immedately ban me. Who knows, but regardless of whether you admit it or not, I don't think I am being treated very fairly here...especially in this case, guven the fact that I was only responding (in direct context) to another member's post...and posted no conspiracy theories here. I've been nothing but respectful to you my entire time on this board, so I am disappointed.

Note: If you ban me, please have Big A shoot me a brief email letting me know when my ban will be lifted, so I can make my sponsor payments before coming back on...or at least place them on hold unti you decide I am no longer harming the board.

You know Mike you always have to be right not matter what and worst of all, when you get called on something you're always the victim. You're completely off the reservation in this thread, I tell you to get back on topic and then you accuse me of making up rules. And as usual you have to respond with a long winded diatribe and play poor me. Nobody else is talking about the CIA running news channels and all the other schizophrenic bullshit you've been spouting off about. I made a post earlier in this thread asking you to stop and you said you would. Then you went to another COVID-19 thread and started there. You're the reason that thread got locked. Now you're back here again going off topic. If you can't control your responses and stay within the rules then avoid the thread. If you do wind up banned because you can't follow the rules, then you can speak to Big A through the banned forum.

alfresco · Mar 31, 2020

maldorf said:
There are some media that I dont trust. I remember how some showed pictures of immigrant children locked up in cages and blamed it on Trump, but the pictures were taken back when Obama was president. I almost always try to back up a news source with another one if it's a big claim.

For better or worse, I subscribe to the Economist which is where I primarily get my news
(I can wait a week). I do not get it from TV (don't own one), some from the internet,
which I look at briefly in the AM just to make sure we are not at war with somebody
again or we need to evacuate. I do not get caught up in all the political BS, conflicting
stories, etc. Just not the way I roll.

I feel bad for all those who's lives have adversely effected. Really do.

And as somebody once said, 'may you live in interesting times'. Well . . . I think this qualifies

get it in ya · Mar 31, 2020

alfresco said:
For better or worse, I subscribe to the Economist which is where I primarily get my news
(I can wait a week). I do not get it from TV (don't own one), some from the internet,
which I look at briefly in the AM just to make sure we are not at war with somebody
again or we need to evacuate. I do not get caught up in all the political BS, conflicting
stories, etc. Just not the way I roll.

I feel bad for all those who's lives have adversely effected. Really do.

And as somebody once said, 'may you live in interesting times'. Well . . . I think this qualifies