Crashed E2 remedy

[cmryan]

Are you experiencing side effects from having your E2 so low?

Honestly, this has been going on so long it's tough to tell all of it. Achy joints (knees especially) are the biggest sign. Oddly, I also experience some edema and water retention fairly easily. I'm assuming through other pathways than E2. Mentally, I'm unsure anymore how it affects me. Maybe just my new norm.

I also just tested my IGF1 serum levels since I've used HGH for several months and wanted to gauge that effectiveness. IGF1 level was exceptionally low at 42. From what I've read, this could be a sign of low E2.

 

[cmryan]

its just a shot in the dark....maybe you're one of the guys that hyper-responds to zinc as an AI? If you can get your levels tested and then go off the zinc/boron supps....then get re-tested a couple months later. Might tell you something useful.

That's really all that can be done to determine. It would be odd though lol.

You don't want to be low on zinc (or any other mineral) as an athlete though.

Absolutely. That's the whole reason I started using the ZMA when I did.

PS if I was going to use one or the other, I'd use dbol. Its tried and true. I'd search for biotech tablets. That line of tabs (and oils) are the very best I've ever used. Trest has too much shadiness around it. Why does no major AAS finished line provide it? Its only from sketchy RC companies....that should tell you something about it....

Good point and it's one less pin. I get annoyed at daily IM pins after a while. I have seen some good trest tested from some sources but it is much less common than good dbol.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

have you tested vitamin D2 levels recently?

do you also take copper?

also, sorry if you mentioned it already, but how long have you been on TRT? You may finally be getting some permanent shutdown if its only been 2-3 years. You may need to trace up the pathway a bit and test DHEA/pregnenolone.

what about your HDL/LDL? How are those #s?

 

[cmryan]

have you tested vitamin D2 levels recently?

It's been a while. So any figure I had probably isn't accurate anymore.

do you also take copper?

No copper supplements. Should I be?

also, sorry if you mentioned it already, but how long have you been on TRT? You may finally be getting some permanent shutdown if its only been 2-3 years. You may need to trace up the pathway a bit and test DHEA/pregnenolone.

It's been almost 2 years. Very odd thing is that I had very high E2 values in my early 30's (39 this year). I've wondered about testing DHEA and pregnenolone. I may need to test those next time around.

what about your HDL/LDL? How are those #s?

HDL: 32 (same as 6 months ago)
LDL: 73 (down slightly from 6 months ago)
Triglycerides: 42 (also down slightly from 6 months ago)

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

Yeah it all kind of adds up man. It seems like you are easing into that permanent shutdown mode and the upstream pathways are shutting down. That's why you can't dial in estrogen probably.

I think you need a really sharp endo/urologist...they may want to put you on HCG to get that pregnenolone/DHEA/progesterone pathway going. Why were you resistant to that idea by the way? You might need to drop your testosterone dosage down if you start HCG - and you can think about a low dose of HCG too (like 250-500iu 2-3x/week). You might find a doc that could prescribe you compound pregnen/DHEA/or something like that instead of HCG. You need somebody that really understands the upstream pathway and can suss out whats going on. Maybe its this or that but you're just taking shots in the dark trying to figure it out, and it would probably take you years to figure out what's off/wrong/how to dial it in. Obviously something is off, because your estrogen is way low for your test dosage.

You need copper supp if you are taking zinc especially if your zinc dosage approaches or exceeds 50mg/day. Even 30mg/day I would be on copper (at least 1mg/day).

50mg/day zinc was also shown to be an extremely effective AI in some people (some genetic reason whether it was or not I think they determined).

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

PS get that HDL up man! Take a couple tablespoons of organic hemp oil everyday

 

[cmryan]

PS get that HDL up man! Take a couple tablespoons of organic hemp oil everyday

Yeah, I know lol. Definitely not where I’d like it. It's one of the things I hope to normalize when I get my E2 dialed in.

 

[Kaladryn]

This is very strange, I would begin to suspect more unlikely possibilities, such as:
-Your testosterone is another hormone that shows up as testosterone on bloodwork but doesn't convert to E2.
-Your testosterone is not a steroid at all, it is an AI, the low E2 level is simulating you to produce that level of test.
-You have genetic aromatase deficiency, which is EXTREMELY rare.

I would go off everything and retest in 6-8weeks. If your E2 is really that low, natty T level should come roaring back, since E2 is what regulates T production.

 

[cmryan]

Yeah it all kind of adds up man. It seems like you are easing into that permanent shutdown mode and the upstream pathways are shutting down. That's why you can't dial in estrogen probably.

I think you need a really sharp endo/urologist...they may want to put you on HCG to get that pregnenolone/DHEA/progesterone pathway going. Why were you resistant to that idea by the way? You might need to drop your testosterone dosage down if you start HCG - and you can think about a low dose of HCG too (like 250-500iu 2-3x/week). You might find a doc that could prescribe you compound pregnen/DHEA/or something like that instead of HCG. You need somebody that really understands the upstream pathway and can suss out whats going on. Maybe its this or that but you're just taking shots in the dark trying to figure it out, and it would probably take you years to figure out what's off/wrong/how to dial it in. Obviously something is off, because your estrogen is way low for your test dosage.

That particular type of doctor is exceptionally rare in my area. I drove 2 hours to meet an endocrinologist years back to have my thyroid evaluated. He's awesome but retiring at the end of the year.

As for the HCG hesitance, mainly because I wanted to get my E2 dialed in with only testosterone. Also, I suppose partially because I've read anecdotes that the long term concerns of gonadotropins is worse than exogenous testosterone. Truthfully, I know that second one is foolish. It was more of a "tack on reason" because finding the right amount of testosterone was my primary motivating factor. I had even considered exogenous estradiol but that didn't seem as crazy in my head as the HCG. That was when I would have definitely benefited from a second pair of eyes.

I'll definitely investigate that more and discuss it more with my endo. Maybe he can at least get me on the right path.

You need copper supp if you are taking zinc especially if your zinc dosage approaches or exceeds 50mg/day. Even 30mg/day I would be on copper (at least 1mg/day).

50mg/day zinc was also shown to be an extremely effective AI in some people (some genetic reason whether it was or not I think they determined).

I see. I'll read up on that.

Thank you so much for all the help!

 

[Kaladryn]

HCG produces estrogen by increasing testicular testosterone production that is then aromatized into estrogen (by particularly active testicular aromatase). My understanding is that ALL male estradiol comes from the aromatization of testosterone.

Good read: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC179885/
Also: http://www.pathophys.org/sexhormones/