Crashed estrogen on cycle, how long to recover?

[phoenix2]

Sure. I'm on TRT at 140mg/wk. My doc lowered my test but kept my on an AI. After about (6) weeks I developed ED as well as anxiety. I knew my E2 was low and had labs drawn which showed E2<5 which means not measurable. I dropped the AI all together and after about 6-8 weeks my ED went away and anxiety started to subside.

Did you experience other sides besides libido problems and anxiety?
Which AI were you taking?
Were you/are you taking hcg too?

 

[Blswan]

Did you experience other sides besides libido problems and anxiety?
Which AI were you taking?
Were you/are you taking hcg too?

I was taking arimadex at .5mg/week. It was still too much for my TRT dose. Yes I take HCG too, 400iu twice per week.

 

[phoenix2]

I was taking arimadex at .5mg/week. It was still too much for my TRT dose. Yes I take HCG too, 400iu twice per week.

Did you have other symptoms of crashed e2 besides low libido and anxiety?
Did you experience lack of gains in the gym, less muscle fullness/pump?
Night sweats?

 

[LATS]

Thank you LATS.

Yes, i know that high and low e2 have similar symptoms, but they are definitely not high. I don't bloat at all even if i eat tons of carbs and salt, but my muscles don't fill up too. And usually i got very bloated if i exaggerated with carbs.

I made a big mistake going on crazy dose with aromasin, but i was scared too much of gyno since i have a pubertal one that never went away.

Now it has been 8 days since i've quitted all ai and things are slowly improving day by day.
But in order to speed up the recovery, what could i do?
Increasing test dosage for 1-2 weeks or adding high dose of hcg could be helpful?

Well you should just wait it out... You say your starting to feel better.. Keep the cycle going and you will get conversion again.. Then just start low dose aromasin.. Dosages 3 to 4 days apart.. But if you keep adding things like Hcg ect you are just going to complicate things.. Everything will level out in a few weeks..

 

[pickapeck]

I did that once with letrozol. Shot 2 cc of sustanon and it was fixed in couple days.

 

[Blswan]

Did you have other symptoms of crashed e2 besides low libido and anxiety?
Did you experience lack of gains in the gym, less muscle fullness/pump?
Night sweats?

Night sweats yes. I lost about 10 lbs but gained it back when my E2 recoved.

 

[upeccmi]

Had my gyno cut out 27 years ago, never took another AI since(unless I was trying to reduce water retention). Best $800 I ever spent.

 

[phoenix2]

Thank you guys.
Ok, i will try just waiting more without taking any AI nor adding other things such hcg.
By the way, i'm not noticing any testicular atrophy, if anything the boys seem bigger now.

 

[j4ever]

Thank you guys.
Ok, i will try just waiting more without taking any AI nor adding other things such hcg.
By the way, i'm not noticing any testicular atrophy, if anything the boys seem bigger now.

i have crashed mine a couple of times due to under dosed shit, my nuts were definitely bigger with severely low estro ( 6 ), as you I was flat, dried and dehydrated, and joint pain, also was in a shitty mood all the time, libido was low but still there, as soon as I pinned good test I could feel the difference 24 hours later, just hold the course bro and wait a little longer.

 

[phoenix2]

i have crashed mine a couple of times due to under dosed shit, my nuts were definitely bigger with severely low estro ( 6 ), as you I was flat, dried and dehydrated, and joint pain, also was in a shitty mood all the time, libido was low but still there, as soon as I pinned good test I could feel the difference 24 hours later, just hold the course bro and wait a little longer.

Exactly this. Nuts are definitely hanging lower and seem much fuller.
Energies are back, rather are increased, so is strength. No severe joints pain, except a little bit in my hips when running, but many "clicking".
Libido still low but far better than the past week. Getting back morning wood too, but it's weaker than usual.
Sense of flatness still there, maybe a little improved.
When i wake up in the morning i'm dehydrated and very flat and i can't still hold a pump decently.

Which AI were you taking?
I've read that if you crash e2 with aromasin it can take up to months to recover.

 

[econ mba]

dude wtf...

Your E2 has been "crashed" (whatever that means) since you started the AI before the cycle, why would you do that?

All that other shit is all in your head. It is a rare eye who can tell if they look full or flat from day to day. We all look way more pumped in the gym and we would all like to keep that look when not pumped.

You need to stop fucking around with things, use an AI dose appropriate for the amount of test in your system, and then get bloodwork to check levels once you get to a stable level (4-5 weeks on long esters).

+1 for the great response

 

[phoenix2]

I've done a big mistake and i'm aware of that.
Now all i want is to remedy this condition asap.
From what i've understood, the androgens to estrogens ratio is more important than their single blood levels. So if i have 2000 ng/dl of test, i have to match them with higher e2 levels. For the same reason, i'm experiencing symptoms of low e2 even if are 3 and half weeks that i'm injecting 500 mg of test pw, because test must be sky high (and so on dht) but aromatase enzyme is still out of the game due to aromasin.
When i tried to increase test adding some propionate shot, in order to speed up aromatization, i've felt even worst in terms of low e2 symptoms, because i screwed up even more the androgen to estrogen ratio.

So now all i have to do is wait, wasting part of my cycle, or add hcg (which i would have used anyway further on the cycle) .
At least i've learned the lesson.

 

[Blswan]

Don't sweat it man. Just give it time, you will recover. Its frustrating I know, but we all make mistakes and learn from them.

 

[phoenix2]

Yes it's very frustrating.
To keep a decent fullness i have to eat a very high amount of carbs every day, which is not my goal right now and eventually i will put too much fat.
And before, i kept fullness very well even on low carbs.
It's weird because i've put on size right now, i'm gaining strength and i feel shirts and pants more tight.
But i can't "feel" my muscle as i used to feel, i can't feel good contractions during worlouts, they are flat and dry, like there is less blood in them.
Difficult to explain with words.

 

[Reno911]

So 2 full pages on this thread and you still have no interested in getting labs taken? Have fun dialing things in doing it that way going by "feel".

 

[jeroendebleser]

Yes it's very frustrating.
To keep a decent fullness i have to eat a very high amount of carbs every day, which is not my goal right now and eventually i will put too much fat.
And before, i kept fullness very well even on low carbs.
It's weird because i've put on size right now, i'm gaining strength and i feel shirts and pants more tight.
But i can't "feel" my muscle as i used to feel, i can't feel good contractions during worlouts, they are flat and dry, like there is less blood in them.
Difficult to explain with words.

Have you tried (considerably) upping your sodium intake? The problem with bodybuilding diets is, among other things, the low sodium consumption that generally comes with it which invariably leads to an inability to get a pump altogether.

On top of that you can also use glycerol/glycerine which is also great for getting water into your muscles.

You are experiencing a lot for being on only 500 mg's of test though, are you sure steroids are for you?

 

[Bio]

I would suggest you start using blood work to monitor your e2 level. Try using Nolvadex M-F and a low dose of Aromasin on the weekend. The blood work will guide you on how to adjust things.

 

[Rogue]

Lats gave you the answer, wait it out and let things normalize.
My opinion, AI and TRT is not a good combo.
If your having to use an AI which has a whole bunch of side effects for a long term TRT, then either the dosage of Testosterone is wrong or something else needs to be addressed.
what I have seen with people on TRT (Which is a low dosage constant administration of Testosterone), is quite the opposite actually, most me will not have enough E2 conversion on those dosages.
My point is if you can design your program without an AI, your that much better off.

 

[phoenix2]

Yes, i've tried to increase my sodium intake too, up to 10 g of added sea salt per day (which are about 6 g of sodium). I drink 1.5-2 gallons of water every day as usual. Nothing changed.
But i notice that right after an high sodium meal i'm more full and vascular but i go back flatter fast.
I will do bloodwork as soon as i can, but i'm 99% sure that this sides effects are from low e2, or better, from a very high androgen to estrogen ratio.
Today i had a great workout, focus, strength gains, "aggression" and stamina were all up.
But i looked like shit. Bigger surely, but flat, like when you go on straight keto for two weeks without refeeding.
My muscle were also stiff, skin is dry and every joint is clicking.
Morning wood is back but libido is still low.

Before someone asks, test is g2g, vials are of the same batch a friend of mine used to compete.
Infact i'm gaining size and strength, but it's like i lack glycogen storage and muscles don't push against the skin.

I've read many threads on the same topic with many guys complaining the same problems.

I've learned the lession in an hard way.
What doesn't kill makes you stronger or, i'd rather say in this case, smarter.

 

[globo]

Hi guys, i've recently started my first test cycle (500 mg test e/week, splitted in 250 e3d) and now i'm on my third week (i've planned 12 weeks cycle). I started the cycle after a cut, so i had a pretty low bodyfat to begin with.
After the first week i began to experience signs of increased test. I felt high body temperature, crazy hunger and had one of my best workout of my life. Arms pump and vascularity were insane. But that day i felt like my nipples were bigger than normal (probably it was just the increased blood flow and pecs water retention due to chest workout) and i got in panick, because i think to be gyno prone since i have a pubertal gyno that never went away even at sub 8% bf. For the same reasons i've started aromasin (Pfizer pharma grade) at 25 mg EOD 1 week before starting the cycle. From the day i thought i was having first signs of gyno, i've increased aromasin to 25 mg ED and everything started going to sh**. I've started experiencing hot flashes around my ears, crazy night sweats, lethargy, sleepiness and libido tanked. Stupidly i tought "my estrogen should be through the fu**ing roof"and i continued with my aromasin intake of 25 mg ED for another week. Than i realize such a fu**ing dumbass i was, since all the signs and symptoms pointed toward crashed e2. At the moment i've stopped aromasin from three days and this are the symptoms that i'm experiencing:

Extreme lethargy and fatigue, no matter how much i sleep; bad brain fog

Lack of drive and motivation to do anything, included training

Shitty workouts, loss of strenght, loss of muscle size. Impossible to achieve and mantain a decent pump, loss of vascularity, loss of endurance

Extreme muscle flatness, no matter how much carbs i eat, my muscles are always flat and it feels like there is no blood inside them

Joint craking and cliking, i can hear them; lower back pain

Lack of water retention; if i flex my muscle i look more ripped with more striations, but extremly flat

No libido at all, lost even morning wood

Emotionally numb and empty, very apathetic, i find no pleasure in any activity

Constipation

I have some test propionate, so i've tried to inject 50 mg ED for three days in order to increase aromatization.

Now, it's passed one week since i've stopped aromasin and things are going much better. Today i woke up with great mood, had a great workout with an insane pump, great energy and strength increase. Not to mention aggresion and alpha feeling.
Libido is coming back too, but it's still below normal.
But it is still a weird thing... i'm always hungry, my metabolism is on fire, higher body temperature, costant sweating... i'm eating a sh**load of carbs and protein, but seems just like they burn up leaving me unfulfilled and flat. Neither fat gain or water retention.Whit the pump in gym i look great, but i quickly lose the pump after a workout.
At rest i look very dry but flat.

How long should i wait for things to go back to normal completely?
I've not started hcg yet, could it helps in some way?

Thanks.

man, I have the same problem after I crash my e2 (same symptoms). did you solve it? Any update?