Cruise TRT Question/Opinions:

[RandomLifter]

OPTION 1: 200 mg/Test and 3iu of hgh

OPTION 2: 150 mg/Test and 6iu of hgh

Just curious what folks think would bring better results. After around 4iu, on cycle, my RHR gets a little too high on HGH but I can tolerate it with lower dose Test. Just general atomization and CNS.

Just curious what the extra 3iu will do instead of the Test.

175 mg/Test puts me slightly over E2 wise but manageable.

 

[pimpman]

Well results you not going to get. It’s more of maintaining what you already have at those doses. If you really looking for trt then option 2

 

[RandomLifter]

Well results you not going to get. It’s more of maintaining what you already have at those doses. If you really looking for trt then option 2

Got it. Yeah definitely not looking for anything crazy more of the best for maintenance during cruise so it’s much closer to TRT.

 

[d4ve]

At the risk of sounding reckless, why does anyone split hairs over fifty milligrams on a cruise?

I have a hard time believing that'll be the difference between restoring blood markers vs. not, the difference between reversing the AAS-related neurochemical changes and not, etc. Hopefully your bloods are great most of the time, anyway.

I think everyone needs to clarify with themselves whether they're trying to be hormonally normal for a time, or just dropping down to a degree that restores certain blood markers and gives the nervous system a break. The former is obviously healthier but also not conducive to maintaining hyper muscularity for more than a couple months.

 

[RandomLifter]

At the risk of sounding reckless, why does anyone split hairs over fifty milligrams on a cruise?

I have a hard time believing that'll be the difference between restoring blood markers vs. not, the difference between reversing the AAS-related neurochemical changes and not, etc. Hopefully your bloods are great most of the time, anyway.

I think everyone needs to clarify with themselves whether they're trying to be hormonally normal for a time, or just dropping down to a degree that restores certain blood markers and gives the nervous system a break. The former is obviously healthier but also not conducive to maintaining hyper muscularity for more than a couple months.

It’s a good question but, in this case, 150 vs 200 isn’t splitting hairs it’s pretty substantial dose differences if you think of it in percentages.

I am truly Hypogonadal. 150 puts me around 700-1000 and 200 puts me around 1000-1200.

I would say that 150 is pushing it as far as “true TRT” and 200 isn’t true TRT. Probably closer to 100-120mg/week is actually replacement.

1mg/kg is generally considered replacement.

 

[Splitzz]

200mg only puts me around 750, where I feel best honestly. I also keep Hgh around 2-3iu on cruise on not much higher on cycle if any.

 

[d4ve]

It’s a good question but, in this case, 150 vs 200 isn’t splitting hairs it’s pretty substantial dose differences if you think of it in percentages.

I am truly Hypogonadal. 150 puts me around 700-1000 and 200 puts me around 1000-1200.

I would say that 150 is pushing it as far as “true TRT” and 200 isn’t true TRT. Probably closer to 100-120mg/week is actually replacement.

1mg/kg is generally considered replacement.

The body doesn't know percentages, though. I get what you're saying - proportionally it's a "big" difference. But it's not comparable to the difference between 750mg and 1000mg, for example - also a 33% increase.

If being in a physiological range (which to me seems arbitrary to begin with) is important to you, then by all means, fine-tune until you get there. And granted, this board has people in many walks of life and with varying goals.

From a bodybuilding standpoint, though - it just seems arbitrary to get oneself "in range" if you're blasting and cruising, as opposed to finding how low you can go without getting too small, soft, flat, etc. Being truly in range seems like something you'd do for a long-term break or when you're ready to be done with supraphysiological doses.

 

[Mufasa123]

It’s a good question but, in this case, 150 vs 200 isn’t splitting hairs it’s pretty substantial dose differences if you think of it in percentages.

I am truly Hypogonadal. 150 puts me around 700-1000 and 200 puts me around 1000-1200.

I would say that 150 is pushing it as far as “true TRT” and 200 isn’t true TRT. Probably closer to 100-120mg/week is actually replacement.

1mg/kg is generally considered replacement.

For what it's worth I notice zero change in timing or reversion of bloods or most all levels (lipids/cbc/cmp) from 150mg of test to 400mg or 200/200 test/deca or currently 75mg test weekly (right now and never been this low before). Those are big % variances as well as absolute for cruises but if that is the only goal, it doesn't matter for me (backed by numerous bloods, many different blasts and cruises previous, etc. but that's just my body personally too).

So while the % is big, my body doesn't notice with regards to bloods outside of test levels and E2.

Not arguing at all but data for context. Real question is 1) how your body responds 2) what do you want to do/goal.

 

[RandomLifter]

For what it's worth I notice zero change in timing or reversion of bloods or most all levels (lipids/cbc/cmp) from 150mg of test to 400mg or 200/200 test/deca or currently 75mg test weekly (right now and never been this low before). Those are big % variances as well as absolute for cruises but if that is the only goal, it doesn't matter for me (backed by numerous bloods, many different blasts and cruises previous, etc. but that's just my body personally too).

So while the % is big, my body doesn't notice with regards to bloods outside of test levels and E2.

Not arguing at all but data for context. Real question is 1) how your body responds 2) what do you want to do/goal.

Great info thx. I hear what you both are saying.

E2 and RBC is certainly part of the consideration. To your point my lipids don’t rly change much.

I guess my overall thoughts are driving up the Test more on a cruise or the HGH on a cruise…what would likely make me maintain more. Because it’s going to essentially be, albeit slightly, over psychological bloods of Test OR IGF-1.

Probably is splitting hairs to @d4ve point

 

[Worldsfastestfatty]

At the risk of sounding reckless, why does anyone split hairs over fifty milligrams on a cruise?

I have a hard time believing that'll be the difference between restoring blood markers vs. not, the difference between reversing the AAS-related neurochemical changes and not, etc. Hopefully your bloods are great most of the time, anyway.

I think everyone needs to clarify with themselves whether they're trying to be hormonally normal for a time, or just dropping down to a degree that restores certain blood markers and gives the nervous system a break. The former is obviously healthier but also not conducive to maintaining hyper muscularity for more than a couple months.

Whilst others who point out that as a percentage 50mg is significant, and they do have a point - from a practical perspective you are also correct.

I can recover my blood markets very comfortably on 500mg test. Lipids, liver, kidneys, rbc/Heamto etc etc all fall very comfortably into range at 500mg.

However blood markers arnt everything - and we should be careful not to be complacent that because markers are in range that harm is not being done. Often markers are good, until they aren't and at that point the damage is already present.

 

[Poonami]

At the risk of sounding reckless, why does anyone split hairs over fifty milligrams on a cruise?

I have a hard time believing that'll be the difference between restoring blood markers vs. not, the difference between reversing the AAS-related neurochemical changes and not, etc. Hopefully your bloods are great most of the time, anyway.

I think everyone needs to clarify with themselves whether they're trying to be hormonally normal for a time, or just dropping down to a degree that restores certain blood markers and gives the nervous system a break. The former is obviously healthier but also not conducive to maintaining hyper muscularity for more than a couple months.

Because it could easily be the difference between needing an AI and not. And I’m a firm believer that if you can get by without an AI for the majority of your gear usage career you will likely be much healthier in the long run. And bone density issues won’t likely ever be an issue for you in your old age.

So on paper, a measly 50mg of test ain’t squat. But factoring the minute details of adding it for an extended period it can have significant unintended consequences.

OP, I hate to piss in cherios this early, and I bet damn near everyone reading this will call me ridiculous, but 6iu of GH is not consequence free for everyone. For example, I hardly ever get side effects from performance enhancing drugs. Especially without using absurd doses. It’s a genetic thing because I can handle beastly amounts of rec drugs too and not get wrecked like everyone else. Been that way since I was a 150lb teenager.

Said all that to say this: I’ve used GH for 16 years. Probably averaged 7-8 months per year during that time. Usually between 2-4iu. Occasionally 4-6iu but never more. I experienced some orthopedic injuries in the last few years and they have required multiple x-rays, multiple surgeons and a lot of discussion on how to proceed in fixing them. There’s one problem that has been disastrous for my knee. And the same problem is a major issue in my shoulder.

You may be wondering what those problems I’m referring to are and I’ll tell you. I have major boney overgrowth in and around both joints. It’s from excessive HGH use over the years. My right knee is significantly larger than my left. It pushed the cartilage out as well along with grinding on my overgrown bones too. X-rays in my shoulder reveal a funky, warped, knotty plate on the shoulder blade. It’s a mess.

Both areas where the HGH attacked the bone were injured areas. Tore the meniscus in the knee and just kept going on it. Broke my shoulder in 4 places and they had to do a Hemi-replacement. But HGH is responsible for the boney overgrowth in both locations. The knee being way more concerning.

My whole life prior to this happening to me I believed HGH was rather harmless as long as you kept an eye on organ growth if even possible. My feet did grow an entire size over the years but that never concerned me. What HGH did to my injured knee and shoulder are another story.

 

[RandomLifter]

Because it could easily be the difference between needing an AI and not. And I’m a firm believer that if you can get by without an AI for the majority of your gear usage career you will likely be much healthier in the long run. And bone density issues won’t likely ever be an issue for you in your old age.

So on paper, a measly 50mg of test ain’t squat. But factoring the minute details of adding it for an extended period it can have significant unintended consequences.

OP, I hate to piss in cherios this early, and I bet damn near everyone reading this will call me ridiculous, but 6iu of GH is not consequence free for everyone. For example, I hardly ever get side effects from performance enhancing drugs. Especially without using absurd doses. It’s a genetic thing because I can handle beastly amounts of rec drugs too and not get wrecked like everyone else. Been that way since I was a 150lb teenager.

Said all that to say this: I’ve used GH for 16 years. Probably averaged 7-8 months per year during that time. Usually between 2-4iu. Occasionally 4-6iu but never more. I experienced some orthopedic injuries in the last few years and they have required multiple x-rays, multiple surgeons and a lot of discussion on how to proceed in fixing them. There’s one problem that has been disastrous for my knee. And the same problem is a major issue in my shoulder.

You may be wondering what those problems I’m referring to are and I’ll tell you. I have major boney overgrowth in and around both joints. It’s from excessive HGH use over the years. My right knee is significantly larger than my left. It pushed the cartilage out as well along with grinding on my overgrown bones too. X-rays in my shoulder reveal a funky, warped, knotty plate on the shoulder blade. It’s a mess.

Both areas where the HGH attacked the bone were injured areas. Tore the meniscus in the knee and just kept going on it. Broke my shoulder in 4 places and they had to do a Hemi-replacement. But HGH is responsible for the boney overgrowth in both locations. The knee being way more concerning.

My whole life prior to this happening to me I believed HGH was rather harmless as long as you kept an eye on organ growth if even possible. My feet did grow an entire size over the years but that never concerned me. What HGH did to my injured knee and shoulder are another story.

Wow. Ty for posting brother. Appreciate the wisdom and experience.

 

[TrippplePPP]

Because it could easily be the difference between needing an AI and not. And I’m a firm believer that if you can get by without an AI for the majority of your gear usage career you will likely be much healthier in the long run. And bone density issues won’t likely ever be an issue for you in your old age.

So on paper, a measly 50mg of test ain’t squat. But factoring the minute details of adding it for an extended period it can have significant unintended consequences.

OP, I hate to piss in cherios this early, and I bet damn near everyone reading this will call me ridiculous, but 6iu of GH is not consequence free for everyone. For example, I hardly ever get side effects from performance enhancing drugs. Especially without using absurd doses. It’s a genetic thing because I can handle beastly amounts of rec drugs too and not get wrecked like everyone else. Been that way since I was a 150lb teenager.

Said all that to say this: I’ve used GH for 16 years. Probably averaged 7-8 months per year during that time. Usually between 2-4iu. Occasionally 4-6iu but never more. I experienced some orthopedic injuries in the last few years and they have required multiple x-rays, multiple surgeons and a lot of discussion on how to proceed in fixing them. There’s one problem that has been disastrous for my knee. And the same problem is a major issue in my shoulder.

You may be wondering what those problems I’m referring to are and I’ll tell you. I have major boney overgrowth in and around both joints. It’s from excessive HGH use over the years. My right knee is significantly larger than my left. It pushed the cartilage out as well along with grinding on my overgrown bones too. X-rays in my shoulder reveal a funky, warped, knotty plate on the shoulder blade. It’s a mess.

Both areas where the HGH attacked the bone were injured areas. Tore the meniscus in the knee and just kept going on it. Broke my shoulder in 4 places and they had to do a Hemi-replacement. But HGH is responsible for the boney overgrowth in both locations. The knee being way more concerning.

My whole life prior to this happening to me I believed HGH was rather harmless as long as you kept an eye on organ growth if even possible. My feet did grow an entire size over the years but that never concerned me. What HGH did to my injured knee and shoulder are another story.

Post those X-rays if you could. I’m looking at knee and shoulder X-rays all day long and would love to see them. I’m not trying to disagree, I’m actually interested to see. But everyone gets osteophytes if you live long enough and there are plenty of people who never touched GH who have large bony growths.

 

[buck]

As for blood markers. Being in range and being in a healthy/optimal range is often not the same thing i find. As where ever the 95% of most people test out at is the range for many blood tests, and many of those people being less then the healthiest people with a good life style i don't always go just by range as damage can be done even at those "acceptable" levels.