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Cutler: "In my 20 years of training, I've never trained to failure on any set. Ever."

And I've experienced it first hand. I looked into every other factor that was causing insomnia; caffeine, supplements, everyday life stress etc and the training is the culprit. I was training 4 days a week for years with Wednesdays and weekends off and my enthusiasm wants to continue to do so, but it's become evident to me that 3 non-consecutive days a week is what I need if I'm going to lift at the intensity I want to. That's why I'm doing the DC two-way and with higher reps as it's even better for my recovery.

Scientifically proven for me, every time that I jump into a 5x5, or 6x4 routine, my sleep is crap.

I usually suffer from insonmia and I control all variables, food, water, caffeine or DNP, but routine is indisputably a vital factor.

That's why I always train one day and rest the next, it's a sequence I use in all training systems. But sometimes I have to take 2 days off.
 
over compensating with other machanisms is not the same as real recovery. the guys who i see figure this out all seem to be the giant ones that ppl call bs on there doses... lol if you spend just a few mins n think about these simple observations as they pretain to more well known board members. i think you will see the recovery idea is quite real. lol:lightbulb:
 
Scientifically proven for me, every time that I jump into a 5x5, or 6x4 routine, my sleep is crap.

I usually suffer from insonmia and I control all variables, food, water, caffeine or DNP, but routine is indisputably a vital factor.

That's why I always train one day and rest the next, it's a sequence I use in all training systems. But sometimes I have to take 2 days off.

The trick is to listen to your body. It seems like you figured your's out. From week to week you may need different amounts of rest. The rest you need is going to depend on how hard you hit it at the gym, both intensity and volume affect that. Other factors too like your workload at your career and psychological stress in general. I know that when I was teaching real hard I had to take great care not to over train.

Another thing is small tweaks you get in a muscle while lifting, little strains. If you get one youll need to take off extra time to heal, don't try to lift through it.
 
The trick is to listen to your body. It seems like you figured your's out. From week to week you may need different amounts of rest. The rest you need is going to depend on how hard you hit it at the gym, both intensity and volume affect that. Other factors too like your workload at your career and psychological stress in general. I know that when I was teaching real hard I had to take great care not to over train.

Another thing is small tweaks you get in a muscle while lifting, little strains. If you get one youll need to take off extra time to heal, don't try to lift through it.

Another method, perhaps the most effective, is to just embrace the overtraining but build in deload periods. Think of it this way, there is no way you can walk the line perfectly between over-training and under-training, it's too hard to estimate perfectly, you will do one of the two. And you can get away with some over-training in the short term, so if you do overtrain, why not get the most out of it and then take a week+ deload now and then? It's not my training style but it seems plausibly very effective. When I look back to my early training, where I probably built a lot of my foundation, I think I subconsciously trained like this.
 
dude hell yes, JP style :headbang:

I am in love with the way he structures the push pull legs set ups and enjoy the his site. I am the strongest and best looking I have been in my whole life. Been lifting with the structure like him the past year and will never ever ever ever again go back to high volume bro stuff.



A week or so ago I was thinking to myself, I wish we would have another debate on training again!Lol:p

I love to read and learn as much as I can and hear different opinions and experiences when it comes to training protocols and strategies. I try to keep an open mind so I can learn as much as possible and implement the ideas into my training.

Isn't it at the very least humorous that given the fact that with all the resources, experiences, and testimonies of thousands of lifters/bodybuilders over many decades of gathering information, that we as a collective bodybuilding community can't seem to agree or come to a decisive conclusion on the "best" and most efficient way to train. Although there is strong evidence and opinions and some feel they truly have found the best way to train, and however they may be correct in their opinion(s), it is interesting that we haven't yet come to a mass agreement or conclusion so it seems.

My .02 cents...I have made my best hypertrophy gains while using progressive overload trying to add weight within 2 different rep ranges(JP style) and/or trying to get more reps each consecutive workout with a weight that I could get 4/5 reps but try to up the reps each workout till I get to a controlled 8/9 reps with that same weight.:lightbulb:--"ROCKET SCIENCE-I know!!!

I've been training this way for about 6 months now and I am the most muscular and dense that I've ever been and everyone has been telling me that am bigger also.

I feel that this, for me-for NOW AT LEAST-is the best way to train for hypertrophy but I will still read, listen and learn from others experiences and try to implement strategies/ideas in order to maximize my efforts and maximize hypertrophy also.

Thanks to all who contribute and share their thoughts and experiences!!!!!:headbang:
 
Another method, perhaps the most effective, is to just embrace the overtraining but build in deload periods. Think of it this way, there is no way you can walk the line perfectly between over-training and under-training, it's too hard to estimate perfectly, you will do one of the two. And you can get away with some over-training in the short term, so if you do overtrain, why not get the most out of it and then take a week+ deload now and then? It's not my training style but it seems plausibly very effective. When I look back to my early training, where I probably built a lot of my foundation, I think I subconsciously trained like this.

That is true. I had that happen to me many times, although I must admit that I didn't plan it that way! I would train for a period of time real hard, not trying to overtrain but I would. THen I would deload for a period until I felt like I was over it.

I remember one time in college, I think I was about 21 years old, I was training hard enough that I was actually losing strength in the gym, and even a few pounds of weight. So I must not have increased my calories enough to deal with the load of training I was under and I just wasn't getting enough rest either. That was back when I would do a 4 or 5 day split and only hit each bodypart about once a week. 20 or more sets for some bodyparts. That was back around 1990 or so.
 
Cutler never trained to failure

When Jay said this(although I haven't checked for myself to to verify if he actually did), I'm sure he genuinely meant it as Jay seems like a straight shooter type of guy.

Now, the question is what is Jay's definition of "failure"? With plenty of footage and proof of him doing forced reps, spotted reps, drop sets etc, his definition of failure seems to be along the lines of PH who at one time said that failure means to finish in the bottom position unable to move the weight back up to the top/starting position. Also, he may feel that failure means close to a momentary state of total muscle exhaustion and unable to voluntarily control the muscle/limbs being trained. This is my takeaway from his statement at least and I may very well be wrong but it's just my takeaway.

It is important to not forget and consider however the HUGE AMOUNTS of weights he used AND the total sets AND reps that he used them for!:lightbulb: By his own definition, Jay may not have trained to failure, but he obviously lifted EXTREME amounts of poundages enough to pack on slabs upon slabs of muscle AND he also kept making improvements(especially his BACK) in order to compete and stand toe to toe with King Ronnie !!!

Failure for Jay at least may not have been needed.?
 
That is true. I had that happen to me many times, although I must admit that I didn't plan it that way! I would train for a period of time real hard, not trying to overtrain but I would. THen I would deload for a period until I felt like I was over it.

We are victims of that, we are addicted to training and we have a hard time resting or training lighter.
 
That is true. I had that happen to me many times, although I must admit that I didn't plan it that way! I would train for a period of time real hard, not trying to overtrain but I would. THen I would deload for a period until I felt like I was over it.

I remember one time in college, I think I was about 21 years old, I was training hard enough that I was actually losing strength in the gym, and even a few pounds of weight. So I must not have increased my calories enough to deal with the load of training I was under and I just wasn't getting enough rest either. That was back when I would do a 4 or 5 day split and only hit each bodypart about once a week. 20 or more sets for some bodyparts. That was back around 1990 or so.

I think often times a "lack of motivation" for the gym in my early years of training was actually my body taking much-needed rest periods that probably helped my progress more than hurt it.
 
Another method, perhaps the most effective, is to just embrace the overtraining but build in deload periods. Think of it this way, there is no way you can walk the line perfectly between over-training and under-training, it's too hard to estimate perfectly, you will do one of the two. And you can get away with some over-training in the short term, so if you do overtrain, why not get the most out of it and then take a week+ deload now and then? It's not my training style but it seems plausibly very effective. When I look back to my early training, where I probably built a lot of my foundation, I think I subconsciously trained like this.

i feel that doing what you said with deloading has been one of the most important things i have done with training.
 
This is how I often do it, here is why:

1. My first goal is to warm up the joint, the goal here is to not tire out the muscle and not put wear and tear on the tendon(s). 1st and maybe 2nd set. (Often skipped on subsequent exercises for the body part.)

2. My second goal is to prepare the tendon for the for my heavy set, reps will be lower because I want to both preserve muscle strength and minimize joint/tendon stress. If necessary, I will wear the muscle out a little bit if I feel it is required for safety for that particular lift. I do 1-2 sets like this closer to my working set range.

3. My third goal is to stimulate an adaptive response in the target muscle(s). This is my all out set, this is the only set I probably do forced reps on, or a drop set, etc. I go to "failure" but I'm in a mindset relative to how hard I think I should be pushing myself at that time, so it's all relative based mainly on injury prevention.

4. If I'm not done at this point, I may want to do a second lighter set. I know I won't be stronger than my all out set and even if I was just as strong, why would it help to signal the same adaptive response again? Are you thinking you are recruiting unused motor units of fibers? Unlikely, and if you are, you would with lighter weight also. I'm only talking 10-20% lighter. This is a great way to get better at the exercise, increase mind-muscle connections, strengthen connective tissue, possibly improve blood flow to the muscle. The problem with the second set is that it can make you much weaker on subsequent exercises, so I usually skip it on the first exercise for each muscle.

If you think about it, I think this is pretty much the basic ideas behind everyone's training for the most part.



It’s interesting how with respect to DC training your approach is similar in regard to DC straight sets since some people prefer to do a heavy set followed by a back off set while others do a lighter work set followed by a heavier set.

Versus DC rest pause set where you keep the weight static and do a descending reps with the same weight ...
 
It’s interesting how with respect to DC training your approach is similar in regard to DC straight sets since some people prefer to do a heavy set followed by a back off set while others do a lighter work set followed by a heavier set.

Versus DC rest pause set where you keep the weight static and do a descending reps with the same weight ...

Rest/pause is just an intensity increasing principle done on a single set to me. I always used to do 2-3 additional sets with a very short rest between as "rest pause." Since I have read DC's training I have done the 10second pause and liked it, I still consider it one set though. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what is unique about Dante's training is he uses HIT style training with high frequency, fewer sets per bodypart (one?), and rotating exercises. I could be wrong, it may have evolved. I really like the idea, it has been on my bucketlist of training styles I'd like to try.
 
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Rest/pause is just an intensity increasing principle done on a single set to me. I always used to do 2-3 additional sets with a very short rest between as "rest pause." Since I have read DC's training I have done the 10second pause and liked it, I still consider it one set though. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what is unique about Dante's training is he uses HIT style training with high frequency, fewer sets per bodypart (one?), and rotating exercises. I could be wrong, it may have evolved. I really like the idea, it has been on my bucketlist of training styles I'd like to try.



Yeah. It would be cool to get your opinion on Your DC experience. It’s actually 15 deep breaths on the rest pause set. Roughly 30-45 seconds.
 
A few periods of time i would do something similar to Mentzer's Heavy Duty principle. Take a weight you can squat maybe 2 reps with. Do two reps which basically takes you close to failure, and then rest for 10 seconds with the weight in the rack. Do another rep or more if you can and then rest again. Do that until you hit 10 reps and that is one set. Can do several sets of that. Toward the end of the set if it gets too hard you may need to rest longer than 10 seconds.
 
Yeah. It would be cool to get your opinion on Your DC experience. It’s actually 15 deep breaths on the rest pause set. Roughly 30-45 seconds.

Wouldn't that be about half that time at anaerobic heartrate levels (ie max breathing rate)?
 
A few periods of time i would do something similar to Mentzer's Heavy Duty principle. Take a weight you can squat maybe 2 reps with. Do two reps which basically takes you close to failure, and then rest for 10 seconds with the weight in the rack. Do another rep or more if you can and then rest again. Do that until you hit 10 reps and that is one set. Can do several sets of that. Toward the end of the set if it gets too hard you may need to rest longer than 10 seconds.

This sounds intense as eff. Might have to try this on a bodypart I want to grow one time. Definaely need a spotter for something like chest. Something different as well. first time ive heard about this. Thank you.
 
This sounds intense as eff. Might have to try this on a bodypart I want to grow one time. Definaely need a spotter for something like chest. Something different as well. first time ive heard about this. Thank you.

For chest, you will must take breaks longer than 10 seconds.
 
20-30, look dusty or old steve kuclo videos, that helps me to count.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O8CKpyhQVg"]Advanced DC Training- Arms with Dusty Hanshaw - YouTube[/ame]
 

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